@brantly posted:
“katerpillarca wrote:
Would you say that having to pay off a loan of $100k after graduation is worth the private education?
No. Never. There’s nothing special about a “private education.” University of Michigan, UNC Chapel Hill, UCLA, UC Berkeley, University of Virginia, University of Texas, University of Florida … These are all public institutions that are world-class.”
Yes, these are world-class public colleges, but if you are OOS, they are likely to cost as much as private, and since they are highly regarded, they probably don’t give out much of financial aid either.
I just skimmed this but don’t forget that private schools usually have large endowments. So if the school is $65,000 but you are getting $40,000 in merit aid and school grants then it’s more reasonable. As stated don’t rule out the LAC’s. Typically they give very good merit aid.
Yes, they will cost a lot if you are OOS. But I was making the point that there is nothing special about a “private school” education that you can’t get at a public university. UCLA and UCB are in-state for her.
Yes! This student needs to do the net price calculator with all necessary information.
You know…garbage in, garbage put. If a NPC is like NYU and doesn’t need ask much…assume it will be either inaccurate, or your costs will be huge.
If a net price calculator has very few relevant questions, it will also likely be in accurate.
The best ones ask for things like assets, home equity, etc. they ask for number of kids in college at the same time, and income. They ask if parents are married or divorced. They might ask for SAT or ACT scores, and GPA and include merit awards too.
A lean NPC should be viewed with caution.
All we know about this OP is that family income exceeds $99,999 (per the NYU NPC). We don’t know about primary home equity or any other assets that schools consider when awarding need based aid.
Yep, first class public educations IF you live instate and get accepted, they can be a bargain.
UNC CH gives need based aid primarily except for a couple of very very competitive merit awards. if you are an OOS student…your chances of acceptance drop like a rock. And it’s a Profile school.
Michigan gives primarily need based aid as well. Profile required.
UCLA, Berkeley don’t give a dime of need based aid to OOS students, and are very competitive for admissions. This student doesn’t even have a guarantee of acceptance to these two,schools as an instate student,
Texas gives precious little merit aid to OOS students. And the school doesn’t meet full financial need for all.
University of Florida might be a possibility… @twoinanddone what do you think?
University of Alabama could give some decent merit aid. All three campuses.
This student does’t want a public education at an OOS school, and likely doesn’t want an instate one. She just asked how do families afford to pay for private.
She says she likes Barnard, and that may or may not be affordable for her family. She needs to run the NPC and it should be fairly accurate as her parents are not divorced, her father works (and I assumed it is a salaried position but if he is a contractor the NPC might not be so accurate). If the cost is too high, OP should tell us what she liked about Barnard (small school in a big city? connected to Columbia for cross enrollment? a particular major?) and CC will make many suggestions of how to afford another school with the same dreamy things. Already some have suggested Pomona and the consortium. Maybe something in Chicago, or Emery. Maybe a totally different LAC like Grinnell?
But back to the original question of how middle income families afford those private schools? Most don’t. Most students are attending public schools in their home states. Most California students are attending instate, and not UC or UCLA. People make compromises - pick a different location than they would like, pick a bigger school, pick a major that is close but not exactly what they’d want, take a merit scholarship when offered even if they’d rather go to another school. They work, parents work extra jobs, they take loans they don’t want to take, they graduate in 3 years rather than 4.
OP is just asking questions on how it works, and I applaud her for doing so early and for recognizing that her family probably doesn’t have $300k available just for her education. CC really can help with ideas if OP wants to give more information about what she’s looking for.
We’ve had the same financial donut hole issues with our eldest son who graduated in 2017 and our current senior son who’s applying this year. It’s not unusual and most students end up attending schools they love and can afford at the end of the day.
We got creative on the private school search and found several that met their criteria (strong academics, small classes, urban/semi-urban) and offered great merit for their GPA, ACT/SAT scores and EC interests - music in both cases.
Maybe take a look at the following schools, they aren’t highly prestigious, but they might come close to meeting your private school wish list and your family’s budget. Good luck on your journey, I’m sure you’ll be just fine come next May.
You would get notable merit aid at all four of these schools with the grades/scores/EC’s you’ve posted.
Loyola University - New Orleans, LA
Furman University - Greenville, SC
Trinity University - San Antonio, TX
Southwestern University - Georgetown, TX ( a few miles north of Austin)
Have you run the Fafsa Forcaster to see what your EFC might be? EFC doesn’t always mean much but it might be good to have that number when looking into full need schools.
We also live in an expensive area of California. We are just over the calgrant qualification threshold. Both our older kids got/are getting a private education because they got into colleges that meet full need, matched our FAFSA EFC and we live simply enough to be able to pay our portion out of pocket (payment plan.) For us, full-need private schools ended up cheaper than a live away UC or CSU situation. I will say there were a few private schools that don’t claim to meet full need whose finacial packages came very close with big merit and some grant thrown in. Clark, for example, surprisingly met our EFC and Willamette came within 2k.
Might help to get all your numbers in line as well as broaden your search to some lesser known schools. I agree that our public schools in CA are awesome but no doubt, my own kids fit better in private schools.
@thumper1 I know plenty of OOS students to get the Gator Nation award at U of Florida Gainesville, but that school is not a fit for a girl who wants to go to an all girls private liberal arts school in New York City. She is very clear that she wants to be in New York City or another big city. Gainesville is a swampy college town with mosquitos. She would be better off to stay in California probably. if she wants liberal arts. Also its very hard to fly to Gainesville from the Bay area of CA. its expensive, one can fly to Jacksonville and bus over. Its a royal pain for out of state kids to get to and from Gainesville FL. Gainesville is very strong in engineering and business though if those interest her, and she just wants out of the Bay area , to try something new.
Barnard does not offer engineering or business, so I doubt OP wants either major.
OP, I don’t think you’ve said what you want to major in, but if one of the majors within the College for Creative Studies at UCSB fits your interests, that could be a great way to get some of the attributes of a small school within a larger UC. https://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/majors
OP hasn’t said what she wants to study at college, but her EC’s suggest that she may be leaning toward poli-sci, government, prelaw, etc. (She is very strong on leadership, active in student government, participates in JSA, etc.)
Of course her high school activities don’t necessarily define her desired college major – but I think its safe to assume that she’s a social sciences / humanities type, not headed toward STEM.
And Barnard is a women’s college, but very definitely not an “all girls” kind of place. Given that she’s also looked at Columbia, NYU, Northwestern — I think it’s fairly obvious that she’s looking for a high quality, urban environment – not necessarily a small LAC.
If I was OP, I would first worry about how her parents will afford her in-state colleges before even considering a private school. You are already looking at 110K - 140K for CA in-state. Lots of students are doing two years of CC than transfer.
OP is dealing with a huge and disappointing shift of expectations here. She got to the point of making a decision to apply ED to Barnard, before finding out that it would be completely unaffordable. What this says to me is that her parents messed up - either failing to understand what an elite college would cost, or assuming financial aid eligibility that was not aligned with their actual eligibility, or simply avoiding the hard conversation because they didn’t want to have to say no to something, until it got to the point where they saw the agreement they were going to have to sign for ED, and then everything hit the fan.
This is not to say that they aren’t good people or that they aren’t doing enough to make college possible for their child. Just that this process got away from them, and they did not give their child the information she needed to plan realistically from the beginning, and then a very painful course-correction was necessary. It’s unfortunate, and it’s a ball that they’re responsible for dropping, but it happens. OP is doing her very best to make a graceful recovery and to respond with appreciation and respect to all of the advice she’s getting here. I don’t think there’s any need to pile on and imply that she’s being entitled or whatever. It’s a tough re-calibration. They need to get down to brass tacks as far as what her out-of-pocket budget for college really is, and then she’ll be able to weigh her options without going through another round of “oh wait this won’t really work.”
I also have the impression that the OP is within commuting distance of UC Berkeley, which definitely can help with costs. Of course she has to be admitted first… But the point is that she may actually have some very attractive and affordable options next spring.
I don’t think it unusual for anyone, especial a 16 year old, to have no idea that some colleges cost $70k per year, or even what $70k is. My kids knew that $3000 for a high school trip to France was expensive for us, that going on a cruise that cost $5000 didn’t happen very often at our house. They really had no idea how much I made or how much our rent was every month, what FICA was or how much I paid for dental insurance. When one kid went to have her wisdom teeth out and she saw the cost was over $2000, she was just shocked. “How do people pay that?”
Now we ask this same 16 year old to grasp a $70k bill, times 4, and really shouldn’t be surprised that the OP is shocked and wondering how anyone pays for it. Or if there might be alternatives.
What about University of Chicago? The school has excellent need based aid and uses the FAFSA only, and a short Chicago form. No primary home equity. It could end up being affordable.
Other urban campuses to consider that might come in at a good price point for this student…
American University in DC.
Tulane
University of Miami or University of Tampa
Drew University in NJ…it’s a train ride to NY but they have some internship connections there.
A bit of a reality check here on UCs and admission…it doesn’t matter if you have a 4.0 and a 1500, you may still NOT get into any but UCM and UCR! This is why kids and parents are forced to looking into private schools in and around CA, and often outside CA, and a means to also justify the high tuition and perceived value: network, getting classes, safety, access to services, potentially athletics like D3. The days of relying on UC or better CSUs is and has been over since 1999 when tuitions began spiking to cover pensions and increasing populations. So, the question is… can a $275K UG degree and experience outpace a $100-$140K one if you can actually get in. Don’t forget, you will graduate in 4 years vs. 5.5 years. If you had a $75K job out of college (such that the privates aim for and process), then you’ve already made back your $100K loan. If your plan is to hit grad school, then perhaps postpone that small school experience for them. My experience however is it is best to use the small school to actually learn and grow and save the bigger university for your grad degree and professional network associations and job hunt thereafter. At end of the day, both UC and LACs are insanely expensive relative to INCOME gains, as opposed to baloney home equity sitting in a bubble.
If you are a race car driver and see a Ferrari and want to drive it, it may still beyond your means. It’s the same with college education. Many feel because it’s an entry into the working wold that they not only want it, but need it as well. Like everything in life it comes with costs.
OP, you mentioned that your parents came here as immigrants and worked hard. Well so did every American whose been here 1 year or 250. ( Sorry that just struck a chord with me). We are a nation of very hard workers and entrepreneurs.
You and your family will have to decide what the value of education is. Living in an expensive area has absolute advantages ( among them top public schools). That said, while you have lots of equity, you also have high costs.
Like many, I understand your plight. We will reach deep into our resources to pay for our kiddos education. Is it worth it? Absolutely. As a family we have made the calculation that education is the #1 priority ( after having funded retirement). But I think that you can’t consider everything until you receive your packages and acceptances.
As someone who grew up poor and received full scholarships to college ( thanks donors!), I have given back in paying taxes and creating jobs. Would I do it again, YES. Would I do it again with 100K of debt ( Yes because I made more having graduated from great schools). The calculation is up to you ( and your parents). Fairness isn’t really fully integrated into the calculus because there is a donut hole of many people like your family who can’t pay the tuition without really feeling it and people who have plenty. The kids who have nothing feel it believe me. They are sweating out paying for books and toiletries. They are going to have to leap higher to get that first job and they might even be behind when they start school.
Life isn’t fair, get over it and start working at what your want out of life.
This isn’t always the case. One of my siblings has a degree from a state school. They work at a well known company in Manhattan with people who have degrees from all kinds of upper tier schools. They earn exactly the same as the Ivy grads. I wouldn’t borrow $100k on the bet that a brand name college will get you more money than a degree from a lower tier school. The only thing that guarantees you is ~$100k of debt (+ interest).
@aquapt Thank you so much for your post and for understanding the situation. It means a lot to me.
@calmom Thank you for the resources you’ve attached to some of your responses and for the suggestions you have made. They have proven to be very useful for my family and I. I would also like to thank you for your comments on other, unrelated threads. I have often stumbled upon your posts and have found them to be very relevant and and informative. And, yes, you are correct. I lean towards humanities, social sciences and law and intend to pursue that in college. Though I haven’t finalized particularly what kind of combination of major(s)/minor(s) I would like, I have been looking into Political Science, Urban Studies, and also, of all things, Environmental Science. That might seem out of tune with a lot of my ECs but I have loved the subject from a young age. Additionally, as a heritage speaker, I would like to take advanced literary courses in Russian. And continue studying French. I also love radio, broadcasting and journalism and would like to participate in that outside of school, if time permits.
Thank you everyone for your contributions. I am very surprised by how many responses I have received and would like to thank you for all the information and insight you have provided me with. Although, if it matters and for future reference, please avoid telling students on here to lose the attitude or that they feel entitled. Because I didn’t feel entitled but I did feel hurt a little bit by some of those assumptions.
Anyway, thanks again! This discussion has been really helpful!
Does anybody know if it’s possible to close a discussion? And if yes, how? Is it something I can control? It’s a little unclear.