However, not all specialties earn $350k; many earn about half of that. Meanwhile, new physicians start earning the post-residency pay in their 30s burdened by heavy medical school debt, averaging $190k but often much higher.
Professions that are tied to cyclical industries can be other examples of non-gradual pay changes. For example, petroleum engineering and other oil exploration/extraction jobs can go from $0 (unemployed) to highly paid and back to $0 based on oil price fluctuations.
@brantly I don’t disagree at all. But for $8000 in CC costs, she started earning more than that at 20 yrs old. Long term, drs will definitely earn more, but time/cost investment, OTA seems like a great deal for someone not career driven and $50,000 for 100 hrs per week seems unreasonable.
Re: MD, it really depends on the type of medicine you specialize in. My BIL is straight out of residency in pediatric anesthesiology and has a great salary and will pay off his 200K+ of medical school debt in 4 years. My sister supported him when he was in medical school and they lived very frugally. But I think we got off topic…
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Yup. Let’s move off of physician salaries please.
I think it has just been assumed by all that the student will definitely work. The problem is that student earnings aren’t enough to fill the gap between public & private tuition. You say you worked “up to three” jobs at college? My daughter at times had five or six different jobs. And that was while attending the OP’s dream college, which happens to be located in a city where expenses are high.
But my daughter, like many, would have worked no matter where she attended, because I expected to pay for her own text books and other out-of-pocket expenses. She also took out the maximum available subsidized loans, which were applied directly to the bill from the bursar, and I paid the balance of the bill from the bursar, which included tuition, fees, housing costs, and a meal plan for the first year only. Even at an in-state public, she could not possibly have earned enough to pay all costs.
I think the real problem is simply that college tuition has increased exponentially over the years, as has housing costs in general. When I was a student, the in-state resident students really could earn enough through summer & part time jobs-- the student fees were only a few hundred dollars each year, and one could easily rent a shared room for $75 monthly or less. That was back in the stone age (1970’s) of course.
When my kids were in college in the 2000’s, the expense was already too high for students at the UC’s to work their way through, end definitely private tuitions were out of reach. A CSU tuition was proably still manageable, especially if the student commuted from home. But it was feasible for a parent’s full-time salary to pay the tuition – when my son started college in 2001, the full COA of private schools was roughly $30K; when my daughter started at Barnard in 2006, full COA had gone up to the mid 40’s, with the tuition & fees piece in the low 30’s. So yes, in a 2-parent household, it would be feasible for the second parent’s income from full-time employment to have paid college costs in those days.
But tuition and housing costs have continued to escalate, and salaries just haven’t kept up. The COA for college is a moving target that keeps going up & up. But again … earning capacity of parents hasn’t kept pace, especially for a parent who would be entering or re-entering the workforce.
So it really doesn’t matter what the occupation is. For most Americans, the full cost of attendance for a private college exceeds their annual individual earning capacity. (Most =~80% of earners. Only the top 25% earn $68K or more, and of course even that falls short of COA) [Source: https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/]
@calmom That is a good point. Salaries vary a lot based on the area in which you live and the industry you work in (not to mention your education, interests and experience). In our area, most college educated people can earn enough to almost pay for a private education for a single child. That means, the assumption some have made—where earner #2 can use the salary solely for education is possible. This is a stretch since most who want to be working already are, it also assumes a two parent household ( not as common as in previous decades), a willing and able parent, and many other factors. So, I think that argument is a tough one (though many have done it successfully). It would be the rare person in my area who could not find a job that paid about 60-75% of a private college. But then you have the fabulous problem of losing financial aid. ( And not all people live in places with a vibrant economy of which they are a part due to their job choices).
I think the idea of kids working isn’t that common. Glad your daughter was a worker bee ( she sounds awesome 5 jobs OMG). But many parents want their kids to “intern” in the Summer, etc. That’s fine. But it does factor into the loans for some which seems counterintuitive esp for someone who needs to build a resume. We have almost a dozen nieces and nephews and a total of two worked in the Summer ( and the jobs were at Summer camps). Compare that to my friends growing up and it’s not even close. And the results when they enter the job force are not spectacular either.
When I attended college, the cost of an excellent private college was about the same as the wages of a college graduate ( I know this because I remember what friends made when they graduated). That means that some kids did have debt ( like my sister) and they worked and paid it off. I think what has really changed are the expectations. The dorms or housing was sharing a place with 4-6 people and working full time for a few years with no money. Many college graduates today live a much higher lifestyle.
In any case, the cost of college is outrageous. It forces kids (and parents) to make harsh choices at an age when they cannot really understand the ramifications. For some who are low income and high stats, it means they might be sailing through via scholarships/merit aid and FA, for many others it means parents digging deep and getting creative. Even then it always means tough choices. Even for the very wealthy, it means a big chunk from savings or current income. It’s going to hit everyone one way or another.
And eventually, the system will break. The middle class will be the first to step out of the cycle. I think it’s pretty close to breaking. Without massive Federal loans, many schools would go bust and fewer would attend college.
My daughter was on financial aid, and just about every college expects students receiving need-based aid to contribute from earnings, and typically include work-study or a campus job in the package. So most students receiving financial aid are working. If you aren’t seeing students who have jobs during school, it is a function of your social or professional circles, not the norm. I think most college-age students are working, but student employment is generally not enough to fund a private education. So students are more likely to be commuters, working to pay their expenses at public colleges; or, like my daughter, students who do have parental support and financial aid packages generous enough to bring the college fees within the range the parents can afford. That could be $10K annually, or $20K annually, or $30K… but there really aren’t that many parents who can afford $50K or more .
So when you do see students who are full pay at private colleges-- and obviously the majority of students do fit that category-- for the most part they are the offspring of affluent parents. In some cases, they have frugal,upper middle class parents who have managed to save a lot for college, or they are the beneficiary of some other source of funds… but bottom line,the vast majority of those full pay kids come from wealth.
I’m fortunate that my kids did qualify for need-based aid – and the high end colleges have gotten even more generous with aid over the years. But I am guessing that the gulf between the rich and the middle-middle-class & poor students who qualify for meaningful need-based aid has also gotten wider over the years.
Those from low income families do not necessarily have it easier, despite what the self-described “donut hole” “upper middle class families who will not get financial aid” seem to think and resent.
Generally, the best need-based financial aid is found at super-selective colleges that are reach for everyone (and which are mostly still financially out-of-reach if the parents are divorced). In some states, the in-state public universities have good need-based financial aid. California students are lucky in this respect; Pennsylvania and Illinois students are less fortunate in this respect. Those students who cannot get into the super-selective colleges (or have divorced parent issues preventing financial aid) and do not live in a state where in-state public financial aid is good need to dig for large merit scholarships, which have been getting fewer in number over the last several years. Those large merit scholarships that are competitive (meaning most of them) need to be considered reaches.
Those from low income families are also more likely to attend high schools with inferior course and curriculum offerings, and counseling that may be more focused on getting students to the local community college and the local less selective public commuter university than helping top students find more affordable choices beyond those.
@ucbalumnus You are correct. I should have clarified, the top schools have deep endowments but are a tough admit for anyone and particularly can be a huge hurdle coming from an impoverished public school. That said, once in and it’s a golden ticket. I know from experience.
There isn’t so much resentment from upper income families in the donut hole as much as there is scrambling to figure out the exact equation. Sometimes there families have to chose different schools or paths. In the CA system the in state cost is low enough and the school are good enough that families have really good options. For the 49 other states the calculations are all different. Also, not every kid wants to go to school in CA.
There is very little merit aid ( and much aid is dual merit and financial) so if the kid has stellar grades and a higher income s/he isn’t going to get that aid in any case. So much for a meritocracy. The kids I knew who got scholarships based on merit would never receive $ today.
You mentioned divorced parents and kids do get $$ here unless one of the parents decides not to play ball. ( That is really rough for the kid but makes sense else many many people would just do this to get FA packages).
State honors colleges seem to be gaining a lot of ground with excellent students. They offer low cost high value education and entry into the best grad schools. For many this is going to be the path.
Still it always annoys me that some kids are priced out of the best universities because they are in the middle.
@calmom So if you assume that 75% of kids in college are the children of the affluent and then you say that only 20% of kids parents make at least 60K, where do these numbers come from? In fact, many of the kids who are there are kids whose parents decided to save money early on and though they may not have managed to save it all they saved a lot. So when the kids went to college the bill was small enough to pay using BOTH the 529 ( or other vehicle) and current income. There are many wealthy kids in prestigious/expensive colleges. But there are also many kids whose parents lived below their means and made college savings a priority.
I’m confused by your question because it looks like you misuderstood or misintepreted what I wrote. I said that for roughly 80% of Americans, the full cost of attendance at a private college would exceed their annual earning capacity, and I cited my source. – which is that 75% of Americans earn $67,250 or less. Since college COA now runs higher than that – probably around $72-$75K these days, I was extrapolating up from that to say that roughly 80% would not have salaries large enough to pay the tuition (especially given the fact that the stats are for gross earnings, not net).
But your question seems to flip the numbers-- I was responding to the post above suggesting that a nonemployed parent could simply return to the workforce to earn the money to pay tuition. That doesn’t mean that 75% of college student have aflluent parents; we know from financial aid stats that roughly half of students, more or less, at any given elite school are full pay. The other half who receive need based aid, by definition have parents whose earnings are moderate enough to qualify for need based aid.
My point is this, income deficiency doesn’t mean you did everything right. It really doesn’t matter what the % receiving aid or those making less than the annual cost of the tuition, there are many people who scrimped and saved for years so that their kids could attend college. Those folks even if they saved only 50%, will be able to pay the difference from annual earnings, etc. This is true even if they make less than the annual tuition. Their kids will not be choosing college based on the FA packages alone or the parents salaries either.
Yes, college is outrageous and has been for decades. Yes, there are many people in the US who work and have little to no savings for either their kids college or retirement. That means that there is also personal responsibility on their part to do what they can when they can to save. This also means that those who save will have options that others who do not save will not. There is a large % of people who make less than (pick any number) yet, they have fully saved for their kids’ college tuition. This isn’t due purely to affluence as some suggest. It is due to savings. Begging the college to pay into the FA bucket when you haven’t done any savings is fairly common based on some of these threads. So is, the parent who saved for years.
I have a SIL in who made very little income wise, but paid full tuition for both her kids. Why? Because she wanted them to have the best options. She worked extra hours, her spouse took on extra work and they made it work so the kids would not have debt. Not an option for all, but an option. Saying that college is too expensive and no one can possibly make enough to cover it doesn’t solve the issue.
Housing, in some markets is very expensive too but people still make it work.
@katerpillarca Good for you for trying to figure out viable options. Without knowing exactly what your parents are willing/able to pay or their eligibility for need-based aid, here are some somewhat more affordable options for smaller to mid sized schools that might fit your needs and offer merit-based scholarships that you might be able to get (upping your standardized test scores would help your chances). Maximum merit you are likely to get from LACs that offer it is typically in the 20-30K range, leaving at least 40K+ to pay.
U of Puget Sound - Tacoma, WA. Not Manhattan, but not rural either. Offers merit scholarships for which you might be eligible. Other PNW LACs with merit include Lewis & Clark (near Portland) and Willamette (Salem, OR).
Macalaster - St Paul, MN. This I really like for you. As of application cycle of 2016-17, maximum merit scholarship was 20K. Strong in Political Science, IR, not sure about the environmental sci.
Women’s colleges that offer merit scholarships: Bryn Mawr (near Philadelphia), Smith (cute New England town two hours from Boston).
Tulane - New Orleans. Apply early for best results and show interest. Merit money is getting tougher there but still possible.
Case-Western, Cleveland OH - Show interest. Merit money possible. Admissions outcomes are very unpredictable. Not just a tech school.
Somebody up thread mentioned the Claremont Consortium. Scripps offers some merit aid as does Claremont. Admission and scholarships are very competitive; here in particular higher test scores would help.
Public options that might come in cheaper than in state with your stats: Arizona State/Barrett Honors College, U of Arizona, U of New Mexico. Not small and quality of in-state options might be better. But as your financial situation is a bit opaque, these might be good financial and admissions safeties.
Western Washington: about 15K students, has the majors that interest you, in Bellingham, WA (not a city but a decent sized town of about 100,000 students located midway between Seattle and Vancouver, CA). With your stats, you’d likely qualify for WUE discount and maybe admission to honors program. Cost would be less than some in-state options. If interested, apply early as WUE money is finite.
Good luck!
How “perfect” is anything if it puts you in so much debt? As a society, we are so used to buying everything on credit - houses, cars, anything that goes on a credit card and isn’t paid off in full each month - that our tolerance for debt is, as a whole, extremely high. I spent years paying off a student loan for a private school I spent two years at and then transferred out of. It was, at the time, a not insignificant chunk of my paltry starting salary, and it was a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. And this was with a Pell Grant, a Cal Grant, work study, and working 2 extra part-time jobs during school in addition to the small sum my parents could contribute. I finally managed to pay it off, but it took YEARS and help from my new husband’s income to do it. Just think long and hard when borrowing for an education when there are sooo many options out there for an undergrad degree.
My daughters got lots of merit (30K+) from Chapman, LMU and Univ of Denver. All privates in urban or close to urban areas.
“My daughters got lots of merit (30K+) from Chapman, LMU and Univ of Denver.”
So they were only slightly more expensive than a UC? Surely that just confirms what a stunningly good financial deal the top UCs represent for in-state students if you can get into them? If financial considerations must be taken into account but OP is likely to be qualified for a good UC, I can understand looking at cheaper OOS schools or at top private schools which are only slightly more expensive than a UC, but I struggle with these three unless there is some particular standout course that OP wanted (e.g. Chapman’s film and dance programs).
‘but I struggle with these three unless there is some particular standout course that OP wanted (e.g. Chapman’s film and dance programs).’
My daughters were not interested in UC’s so would have chosen one of those three instead. The OP was trying to find private schools that would be affordable. I was just pointing out that those three schools offer good merit money.
OP was upset that her dream of going to a top private school was unaffordable: “UCs are great. We are very privileged to have them. And yes, I am definitely applying to several UCs. It just kind of sucks to fall in love with a school that seems like the perfect fit or you, or to find and like the schools with the best reputation for your intended major(s) only realize that despite how great of a fit it could be for you, you just cannot afford it…”
She wasn’t just looking to go to any private school for the sake of it. She wasn’t “not interested in UC’s”. Can’t we make her feel better about the UCs instead of suggesting more expensive schools that are no better for what she wants to study?
Lots of us in CA are in the same boat: kids start senior year feeling that “everyone goes to the UCs, I want to be different”. Well guess what, they go to the UCs because they are great schools and the price is a bargain. My S18 was like that too, but here we are at UCLA (having turned down several of the colleges mentioned earlier in this thread because despite getting plenty of merit money, they were still about $20K per year more expensive), and he’s thrilled. But the first time he even visited was on accepted students day because he never imagined himself at a UC.
@katerpillarca – This thread has diverged a bit (and I didn’t read all the posts), and I wonder if you’re still reading. If so, and back to your original question about how families afford private colleges, as you have figured out, there’s no one singular way.
In some cases, parents have saved a lot money to pay for private college by forgoing other expenses like nice cars and vacations. I’m talking above average frugality relative to income here. (Living below one’s means…)
In some cases, a grandparent passes away and families can tap inheritance to help pay for a private college (This one is personal example – my mother passed away when my kids were little and while we didn’t get a lot we earmarked it for college. Not having your grandma around is a somewhat bitter pill for private college though…)
Is some cases, living grandparents step in to help pay. Our college financial advisor says as prices have escalated in recent decades, this is increasingly common. Grandparents who can help consider it an ‘early’ inheritance.
In some cases, students choose less selective private colleges in order to qualify for merit aid – it’s a sliding scale where the less selective the private school, the more merit they offer.
In some cases, students take out big loans (as discussed earlier). In my opinion, not a good idea.
In some cases, parents bite the bullet and decide to tap their own retirement funds, home equity, etc. to pay for private college. Sometimes this is okay; sometimes they regret it down the road b/c their own financial situation is undermined, retirement delayed, etc…
Anyway, those are options I can think of off the top of my head. If you don’t have options 1, 2, or 3 available (and it sounds like you don’t) and a private education is your goal, then picking #4 is your best option. Open your mind toward other privates that would give you money and compare them to your in-state public options. This may eliminate your dream school, but there are a lot of great private colleges that could be viable options and that you would love. Plus, don’t discount the value of being a big fish in a smaller pond.
Good luck!
PS – Be sure to run the NPC on all the privates you’re interested in – some do define need more generously than others so you might be surprised…