<p>Even if LEGALLY, folks become “adults” and financially indepedent at age 18 and thereafter no one is RESPONSIBLE for them, as a practical matter, many of us have ties long beyond that “magical” age. This has caused us to want to live within a 5-10 minute drive of our folks, drive them many of the places they want to go to (so they’re not driving at night), go to MD and other appointments with them, and other things that we don’t HAVE to do, but will continue to do as long as we’re able and then hire help as needed.</p>
<p>Similarly with kids, no matter what folks’ station in life, they generally want to help in whatever way they choose so that those kids can get some education/training so they can earn a decent wage. Whether it’s a $60K/year education or something less depends a great deal on the total resources available, child’s competitiveness for merit and/or FAid awards, retirement resources available to the parents, and other factors.</p>
<p>Spending within the means of the families involved, saving, getting merit awards and Faid all seem to be parts of the strategies that have worked well for many CC families, whatever incomes they come from.</p>
<p>“Middle class” is indeed a nebulous concept, but I believe the OP did originally post that they were earning about $80K/year and were wondering how to pay $60K/year for ed expenses. As many have pointed out, that is very challenging unless significant merit & FAid are available, and may require shifting of plans to less expensive options or places which offer better packages to make out-of-pocket costs significantly lower for the family & student.</p>
<p>Choatiemom, many of us don’t live that way. Though we may not have a legal requirement to take responsibility for our elders, for example, most of us do, as there is a societal, as well as a moral reason to do so. Most of us just do because we want to do so. My MIL is suffering from dementia, and yes, we can turn her over to the state, but we stepped in when it became clear she was not doing well on her own, and are now making decisions for her. At this moment, my friend is at the hospitatl where her mother just had surgery and will be taking her in when released and helping her get back on her feet. It’s just the way most of us do things. And, yes, there is some expectaion to do this. </p>
<p>As for our children, though legally adults at age 18, few parents pack the kids bags and put their belongings to the curb at that milestone (though we may want to do so) The way colllege is set up, until a kid is 24, married, has a dependent, is a ward of the state, or a veteran, the parents’ finances figure into whether or not he gets financial aid. If a parent won’t fill out the forms, the kid gets very little. If parents are deemed able to pay, and won’t, the same occurs. So, there is that “no man’s land” where a kid is an adult but not yet self sufficient, can’t pay for college, but can’t get aid or much in loans without parental assistance. A kid is no more mature the day of his 18th birthday than he was the day beofre and few of shoot for that target date as the time, a kid will be self sufficient. Especially those who we consider on track for college.</p>
<p>I know each state is different. In California, at $46 a unit, community college tuition is the cheapest option, followed by the CSU system at about $8000 a year, then the UCs at about $14000, and last but not least the USCs and Stanfords at about $46000 tuition. When I said room and board were about $15,000, it’s really about $11,000 at CSULB, $13000 at UCLA, $15000 at USC, etc. That’s just room and board.
Folks can pay whatever they want for their child’s education/“college experience”. I know one family who have a D at Duke, and now they are sending her to law school, and between all the flying back and forth and summer programs and trips abroad and sorority fees, etc, I figure they will easily have spent close to a million on her before it’s all said and done. I just don’t know how one recoups that, even as a lawyer. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I am a cheapskate. I have spent around $100,000 on my D’s undergrad education/“college experience”. Hopefully she’ll get a job and take care of herself from now on, so I can retire someday. </p>
<p>Just a caution for those who advocate spending whatever amount on this “college experience”, you never know what will happen. I was diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer (non-smoker) in my daughter’s sophomore year, and all those nice plans I had to pay for everything out of my extra earnings went out the window. Fortunately, I am something of a medical miracle and haven’t stopped working, but the whole financial plan could have easily blown up, and she would now be paying for college with my life insurance money. So get a bunch of life insurance.
And yes, hopefully, I will retire someday.</p>
<p>It would be great to have a set definition for middle income families; what the range is for those who have college aged kids. It’ really makes no sense to throw in young families or seniors in the mix when few of those situations are in the posiiton of having college aged kids. </p>
<p>For a family with two kids, making about $80K a year these days, who put away about $20K for the college kid, coming up with a $60K a year tab is going to be tough. The kid should ave about $5K also put away, having worked and saved over the summer and the summer before college should be where he is really pounding salt to get enough money as possible if he is going to a college that is such a stretch for the family. If he can make another $5K being so foucsed, he has $$30K in the pot, which should probably be split up to about $7K a year. Has to work during the year for another $3K bringing it to $50K that has to be coughed up. Fin aid, might come up with $10-30K in such cases, maybe more, but let’s be conservative, and that would be non loan options. With a $20K discount, the parents and kid have to come up with $30K a year, from what parents can squeeze out of the current income by budgeting tightly–maybe $8K there, the kid can borrow $5500 and the parents would have to come up with $16.5K per year in this series, borrowing, $64K over the four years and coming up with a monthly PLUS payment of about $1200 a month for at least 10 years. I would say not affordable. The aid would have to be at least $8-10K a year.</p>
<p>^Completely agree. THIS is the typical middle-class scenario.</p>
<p>And I would add that public universities that were once “affordable” to average families are less and less so. At our state flagship, along with that in an adjacent state that offers reciprocal tuition, the COA is about $23K a year. NOT affordable for most people making $80K a year or less.</p>
<p>The figure of only 30 schools meeting 100% of a student’s financial need is not accurate. According to US News, 62 schools met the full 100% financial need of all of their students in the Fall Semester of 2010. That would be an excellent list to have when choosing which schools to apply to.</p>
<p>Also, most in-state Us give very little FAid (other than loans) for most students. Our in-state U only gives tuition waivers for ONE tippy top student at each HS. Many families have their kids live at home & commute. Paying in-state tuition allows them to keep their retirement savings IN their retirement accounts so they CAN retire, hopefully before they are down-sized out of a job (which is happening with frightening frequency as we get older). Taking on debt as we are looking at retirement is a very bad idea.</p>
<p>For us, H actually did retire a few weeks ago, so we had to be sure our finances were in order to make this possible. None of us do ourselves any favors by not keeping our retirements financially sound. Even folks who WANT to work until they die often can’t stay in their jobs until then, due to health of themselves or sometimes a loved one, down-sizing, change in work requirements and a host of things beyond the control of the employee.</p>
<p>For folks hoping for Financial Aid, please be aware that schools calculate it differently–some use Profile and/or other tools which MAY look at home/farm/business equity, savings, COLA and other assets available to the family, which can show that parents have less need than FAFSA. Most private schools have the option to offer more grants & scholarships vs. loans to meet “need.” They CAN meet “full need” with LOANS at many campuses.</p>
<p>My personal definition of “middle class” is a one income family that can afford an average house/apartment (whatever is the norm) in their area, nothing fancy, but not a dump either, afford 2 cars, again, not fancy but not rust buckets either. Can contribute to retirement funds, cover their monthly bills without worry, set a little extra aside and take a family vacation each year. How much it takes to do that is going to depend on the area. In some areas $50,000/year will do that quite nicely, in other’s that number might be $200,000.</p>
<p>If doing the above takes 2 incomes, you can lead a middle class life but aren’t what I would count as being a part of the middle class. Having more than above puts you into the upper middle class or higher.</p>
<p>What you make isn’t relevant unless you discuss cost of living along with that. People that live in high cost of living areas take a hit when it comes to college funding/financial aid because so much is dependent on your income and has nothing to do with your expenses. Someone doing well on $50,000/year in a low cost of living area “looks” poor on the FAFSA vs someone making $100,000 living in NYC, who probably is struggling day to day to support a family.</p>
<p>For middle income, the median household income in the US is about $50,000 per year. For households headed by people age 45-54 (i.e. the most likely age range to have high school or college age kids), the median is about $70,000 per year (note that this is the highest median income age group).</p>
<p>Wow, SteveMA, under your definition, there are VERY FEW middle class families in HI, since most do have AT LEAST two incomes to lead the “middle class” life you describe, even if they’re renting and do not even own their home. Some even have multiple jobs to have those things.</p>
<p>Please be aware that unless the schools specifically state otherwise, LOANS can constitute “FAid” and it can be the only FAid the student and family is offered, meeting “full need.” It surprises and disappoints many who may think it is money that won’t need to be repaid.</p>
<p>Those 62 schools are only a small portion of the thousands of colleges in the US, and many are highly selective for admissions. Even if you live in a state where the in-state publics will meet your need (or are low enough cost to begin with to be affordable), the list of affordable college on just need-based aid may be quite limited compared to the total number of colleges. Of course, a high stats student may have a better chance of getting admitted to one of the 62 schools that meet full need, or getting large merit scholarships at other colleges. (Of course, not every family is able to willing to pay the expected family contribution, so meeting full need may not be enough in that case.)</p>
<p>We saved up quite a bit and were very fortunate in the stock market many times and could meet your definition but that’s because of having a lot of assets. If you have a lot of assets (unemcumbered), you don’t need much for living expenses as what most treat as expenses are capital outlays.</p>
<p>Cost of living according to the US census is:
Honolulu, HI 1.65
Manhattan NYC 216.7
Washington DC (Arlington) 1.40</p>
<p>At this point, there is no adjustment I am aware of for Cost of Living in any FAid calculations, even though there is government census & other data on this point.</p>
<p>Are the costs of the Hawaii public universities reasonable? I would imagine room and board might not be too bad since they don’t need to heat the buildings unless food is very expensive in Hawaii?</p>
<p>That would help with cash flow. But families planning for college should run the various scenarios through NPC. (I wish there had been more of them around 3 years ago.) For FAFSA schools, you EFC gets split across the number of kids in college (any college including cc - I think half time counts). So if EFC is $50K, it would be $25K/child. Of course most colleges don’t meet full need. But it is important to understand the overlap factor.</p>
<p>I clearly stated that we are not middle income. I posted because I believe the answer to the OPs question has to do with a combination of all the good information that has been shared here (savings, scholarships, cc, merit aid, loans, etc.) tempered by a good deal of sacrifice; what sacrifice looks like for each family will certainly differ, but paying for college these days is a herculean feat for all but the uber-wealthy and requires a good deal of advance planning, often from birth as many have stated. Also, I believe the OPs question is rendered somewhat moot by the fact that no one on an annual income of $80K without sufficient savings is going to be required to pay $60K a year for college. There will either be a combination of the options I listed above to cover the bill, or the school is not a viable option. This is true for everyone for whom writing $60K checks is not inconsequential. Also, a student can receive a great education for way, way less than $60K a year as many of you have pointed out.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I dont believe I stated an age anywhere. I dont consider 18 to be adult, but I have allowed my child to leave home at 14 for boarding school 3,000 miles away; he is already on a college schedule and considers himself launched. I never came home again once I left college, and our son doesnt plan to either. How that actually pans out remains to be seen, but my point is simply that the relationship we have once he reaches adulthood (not 18; hell still be a student), will not be based on any obligations, financial or otherwise.</p>
<p>Good luck to all of us as we navigate the elitism that is higher education in the United States today.</p>
<p>Start with the 62 schools meeting full need, then add the hundred or so who also meet full need or come very close to it. Look at every instate public university to see what they have to offer. The point I hope to have made is a middle class family can find a very good school for their child without paying $60,000 per year and without mortgaging their child’s future with a mega student loan.</p>
<p>It took me all of ten minutes to help my son submit an application to a public which guaranteed him a scholarship for four years that paid his full tuition. It wasn’t based on family income.</p>
<p>I know that loans are a part of the financial aid package. If you max out your federal loans you are on the hook for about $27,000–really no a huge amount in the grand scheme of things and when you are talking a family with “middle class” means, so what, it’s a way to afford college and NOT difficult to pay back in under 5 years. When you get into the private loans, that is where people get into trouble.</p>
<p>Hawaii is an expensive place to live–not Manhatten expensive but pretty expensive which is why I didn’t include a dollar figure in my definition. A family shouldn’t NEED 2 incomes in the middle class.</p>
I dont consider 18 to be adult, but I have allowed my child to leave home at 14 for boarding school 3,000 miles away; he is already on a college schedule and considers himself launched. I never came home again once I left college, and our son doesnt plan to either. How that actually pans out remains to be seen, but my point is simply that the relationship we have once he reaches adulthood (not 18; hell still be a student), will not be based on any obligations, financial or otherwise.</p>