That was a thing for our son too. He wouldn’t even look at HMC for that reason. At the end of the day, there are SO many good options for nearly every major that we encouraged him to consider any intangible that mattered to him. The last factor that broke the tie between his three finalists…sunshine.
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Totally forgot that one. Mine didn’t want a campus that was mainly red brick because he finds that depressing. LOL. Plus not in a hurricane city.
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I don’t think of “Prestige/Selectivity” as part of “Best Fit”. Often the “best fit” school may not be the most prestigious or selective.
I think the other factors are important and I would say academics in your major, in general. Plenty of schools that aren’t super prestigious might have a great program in the desired major.
I would add “vibe” as separate from non-academic factors. To me “vibe” would be more like finding your kind of people at the school. For some students that might be a strong greek scene, or a big sports school, or a strong LGBTQ community, or an artsy campus.
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There was a long thread not too long ago about what you looked for in a school. I’m not sure if the answers for this are different than this one. I keep waffling if “fit” includes finances. That has to be (at least for most of us out there) the primary factor. I like the responses that break it up into different kinds of fit.
Financial Fit - We could only afford most in-state public universities. No W&M unless the 1693. We would have paid for UVA, but it would have been a stretch. So the cost had to be less than that. That eliminated a lot!
Academic/Career Outcome Fit - Both needed a school that had good employment outcomes. And a place where I felt comfortable that their advisors would take care of them. I didn’t provide any help with course selection. I got them TO college. Neither kids wanted engineering, so I would have been clueless anyway.
Social Fit - Older S has the ability to fit in anywhere. Even as a kid, he was happy to play with/talk to kids several years younger or older. He fit in with the athletic kids and the nerds. So big school, little school, etc. didn’t really matter so much. He would have adjusted fine. That being said, I think his school really fit him well. Younger S needed a big school. Lots of sports, etc. For him, he only applied to 4 schools, all large publics.
Distance? I didn’t care. Kids probably wouldn’t have cared. H would have wanted them closer to home, but he didn’t care to be involved in much of the college search/decision making. It worked out that both wound up in state 2.5-3 hours away.
This is not a good thing. Just like there are some paths for which going to a state university is best, there are some paths for which attending a ‘prestigious’ institution is the right decision. I think you should sit those threads out rather than trying to force your ideology on to someone whose goals don’t align with your vision of ‘fit.’
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This is an amazing post.
This first statement attacks rankings. The second statement is an endorsement of rankings.
Using your argument, attending any ABET accredited Mechanical Engineering program should be fine. Unless you buy in to the validity of rankings, Purdue or UIUC are not superior to any other ABET accredited program.
Engineering tends to have smaller quality variation and college prestige premium than many other fields, because ABET accreditation imposes a relatively high minimum standard. Of course, some programs may be better (in an engineering academic sense) for a particular student than others, but the difference is typically between good and better, rather than bad and good the way it may be in some other majors.
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Both agree and disagree with this. While my opinion is that certain schools are worth every penny (unless they bankrupt the family) for certain students with certain goals, I do think that contrarian views are useful to the OP as long as they are reasoned, step by step points with some backup that is not purely anecdotal based upon the experience/opinion of 1 or some other limited number. I do think prestige bashing as a matter of world view is unproductive as well as “Ivy” worship. I also think posters who suggest “like” schools are doing the OP a favor because in almost all cases of students with lists that are reach heavy, Plan B is realistically Plan A.
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Mine didn’t want to go where they will run out of water. Spoiler: He’s in a state that could run out of water. However, he is now interested in taking some of the classes that deal with water rights and management.
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I find my view of “fit” is changing as my kid (my eldest) goes through this process. A year ago, “prestige” was dead last on my list when looking at schools. Neither I nor they particularly care about a “name” school. Now, I recognize that it’s a little more complicated than that, because C24’s initial list has some schools on it that, while they seem to be really fine schools, have financial health ratings that scare me a little. So we’re thinking a little bit about prestige, not specifically for names but because those schools are guaranteed to be there in 5 years. Note, that still doesn’t mean my kid is aiming at Ivies, just that I’m treading carefully wrt to certain schools.
Other factors for C24: campus size, location, weather, availability of a strong program in their intended major, availability of external resources (medical care that they need), not in a state that has passed or is passing laws to make certain topics forbidden at public universities or where C24 will be physically or legally unsafe due to laws aimed at restricting their rights, proximity to internships/opportunities in their chosen field and, yes, vibe.
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In my observation, there are two kinds of students who post chance-mes with a long list of T20s:
A. Well informed applicants who have researched these schools and know they need them for prestige heavy careers, for their generous financial aid, or because they are genuinely a great fit for certain academically advanced students, etc.
B. Ill-informed applicants who’ve only picked the famous names they’ve heard of, or (like many kids around where I live) have grown up hearing/believing that there are only a handful of schools worthy of attending and everything else is trash.
I tend to agree there are far more posters here in the latter category, and it’s fine to provide them guidance and alternate school suggestions - but I disagree with the common view on CC (a kind of reverse snobbery) that prestige is bad. (“Prestige whore” is a common slur thrown around here).
If a student seems to have a good reason to apply to multiple ivies/ivy+ schools and has a solid safety they say they’d be happy to attend, I don’t think we should knock them down. It’s fine to provide alternate suggestions, especially if they don’t have solid safeties and targets. But I think we should accept that prestige might be a fit factor and valued by some students.
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So no University of Cape Town?
Each of my children has had a completely different set of requirements for what they want in a college.
In many ways, that in and of itself has been how we defined ‘fit’. What did a college need to have to make it work for the individual student? You may have to be willing to do a lot of research and honest self-reflection to answer that question.
I sympathize to a degree when I see parents and/or students who seem to fall back on the heuristic of college ranking because I think that often happens when the applicant and family don’t have the time, energy or resources to really think through what they need, what they want and what school(s) will be best for that particular set of needs and wants. The higher the ranking, the safer the Brand value is and I think many families are looking for as close to a promise of success as possible, especially considering the cost of higher ed.
I fully agree with @DadOfJerseyGirl that prestige, in and of itself, is very important to some applicants and I agree they shouldn’t be shamed for it. If that is important - it is important and should be respected.
My only wish is that families pursuing prestige don’t conflate other qualities as only existing at prestigious schools. Many schools (large and small, prestigious and otherwise) have fantastic faculty, great resources, abundant opportunities, strong grad school placement, excellent mentoring and a host of other qualities students and parents are looking for. None of those things exist solely at highly prestigious institutions.
That’s where research and, frankly, the incredible community at CC can really come in handy helping families and students find schools that aren’t on the tip of everyone’s tongue, but are wonderful institutions that could be great for that specific student.
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I’m not sure how prevalent this is among today’s kids, but since like half of them will change majors (at least once) in college… they might care about the ease of changing majors at a given school.
Other things:
- Academic calendar
- Available research/internships
- Class sizes, especially in survey courses (LAC/U)
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Folks including @neela1 and @Zrt42 I think you misunderstood my post. I was recounting what I have seen on CC and stand by the idea that prestige may not be the best guide to “fit” and that it is reasonable to ask “why Ivies” since they are all so different.
I would not discourage anyone from applying to an Ivy and am certainly not “allergic” to them (full disclosure I have kids who attended some, one against my better judgment).
However, I also think that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and MIT are well-known (due to prestige) and that some kids don’t know a whole lot about other options, including LAC’s and sometimes LAC’s are indeed a “better fit.” For high achievers I try to suggest also looking at the little Ivies as well as Colleges that Change Lives and at several other schools.
It helps if kids know a little about each school instead of applying just because it is in the Ivy League. It’s especially poignant when young people post that Harvard (or wherever) has been their “dream school” since they were 5. In other words back when they wanted to be a firefighter.
Harvard may get you into Goldman but for some, the fact that 40% go into consulting, finance etc. means the culture is not a great fit. Drew Faust was trying to do something about that by enhancing the applied arts, several years back.
For some, as I said, the star lecturer with grad student TA’s or TF’s is not the best fit either.
Ideally students are happy at their chosen school. Then it’s a fit, in my view.
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Our kids had a list of characteristics they wanted in a college. The one that checked the most boxes was the best fit…and they both attended the colleges that checked their boxes!
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Your exact quote was, “prestige is absolutely featured often as a factor and then many of us respond to counter it!”
Too many people come to this website every day to push an agenda, rather than to help people. We’ve all seen it.
Students will say that money is not an issue, and then people will badger them, “Do your parents REALLY know how much that school costs?!? My son went to Pigs Knuckle Tech and got a great job and it would be free for you with your test scores.” Why is it so hard for some people to believe that some families actually save and plan for this level of education?
I have seen overt ad hominem attacks of 17 & 18-year olds on this board when it comes to ‘prestige’…all in the name of ‘fit.’
Just for a week, it would be a great exercise for the veteran posters on this board to try addressing what is actually asked, without inserting their own biases & preferences.
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I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting to go to Harvard, Yale et al - whether that is for optionality or just because it appeals for some other reason. However, most students who are interested in these schools aren’t going to be accepted - that’s why a list of 20 high reaches and a safety they don’t like is a strategy that is likely to lead to disappointment. We saw it with a couple of students on here this year - both with stellar credentials.
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There’s actually very little of this on the forum. It’s usually far more nuanced and contextualized. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as it’s done in the name of educating.
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You can find examples in this thread…with zero nuance.
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