I am a senior and go to a very competitive public school in California, so my class rank is pretty low (30-40ish). However, I’m able to ace all standardized tests, without taking any test prep classes. (ACT-34, SAT 1540, Math 2/Phys/Bio/Chem - 800). I put in a lot of effort into schoolwork, but somehow a few B’s have slipped by over the years, pushing me down the rankings. The thing is, there are many students who come from other school who claim to be “valedictorian/salutatorian” and 4.5+ GPA, yet they only have 1400s on SAT or lower ACT scores or 3s and 4s on AP tests.
I wonder how colleges would compare students like me to those who go to less competitive/difficult schools and end up with super high rankings. Will I be at a disadvantage, simply because my parents chose to raise me in a very competitive area where I have had to work probably harder than those students or not really?
I am not saying all students who go to less prestigious high schools are less hardworking/smart, but its all about context, because they simply go to a school where it is easier to succeed. How would I compare to them to UCs or Ivy league college, where I am applying?
Admissions is often all about context too. When classes start again, go talk through this with your guidance counselor. The people at your high school have years of experience, and can tell you what has happened to students like you in recent years.
I’ve wondered about this myself, though our children go to a very competitive private school. My S18 has friends in the most competitive public schools in our area and they all have straight As and do not a lick of homework (by their own and their parents’ admission). A co-worker’s children go to one of the worst public schools in town and she tells me stories of the teachers just writing “A” on the top of papers without even bothering to read them. I do think my children are getting a good education, but it does worry me that admissions officers see my son’s 3.7 and think it’s worse than another’s 4.0. Might be worse, but also might be significantly better.
I have no firsthand knowledge but it would seem to me that college adcoms are quite aware of how students from School A do in college vs students from School B. Over time, a track record develops; a knowledge of rigor or no rigor. I don’t know where the weeding out happens (School A apps get put at the top of the pile?) but I am sure it does happen.
My kids went to a very competitive high school and I do not think that they were at a disadvantage at all in terms of college admissions. Colleges are absolutely aware of the rigor of the HS and take that into account in the admission process. Both of my kids ended up in colleges that were very good matches – as did their friends.
And an additional positive is that because of the HS background, my kids were very prepared to handle college work.
Why are you trying to indicate that you work harder than others who go to less competitive schools?
Do you honestly think that because your parents have money, you’re being discriminated against by being at a tougher school?
PUH Lease!
You will either get in or you won’t.
My kids went to a competitive high school, but it was considered the “ghetto” school of their district.
My kids still got near perfect SATs, perfect APs, NMF’s and got into their schools. It didn’t matter too much that they came from a “ghetto” school. They worked very hard and nothing was given to them.
I worked in a state that usually falls very low in rankings in the US (anywhere from 48-50) and has a dismal public school system. I had a very good student apply in that school apply and get accepted to MIT.
In my current state (highly competitive, excellent public schools) students with stats much higher than that kid have not gotten in to MIT, or have been deferred.
Applicants are compared to the cohort with which they were educated- so often, yes, a kid who stands out from a less competitive school will have the edge over a kid with similar stats who comes from a more competitive school. Especially when geographic diversity is concerned…
Assuming that your school has been around for a while, the Adcoms already have a good idea of what goes on there.
But if you’re trying to find a reason for that class rank or those B’s that “have slipped by”-- well, good luck. The adcoms also know that other kids have stronger class ranks and haven’t allowed those B’s to “slip by.” How on earth can you know that you’ve had to “work harder” than anyone else???
Take a deep breath, and hit Submit. Your application is what it is. No excuses or explanations are necessary or useful.
@“aunt bea” @bjkmom Hi guys you bring up very valid points and I totally agree. However, to clarify maybe a little-
The reason there’s an SAT/AP test is so colleges can compare students with respect to those anywhere in the US versus GPA simply tells a college how good a student was in a particular class, and class difficulty can honestly vary a lot.
A student who goes to, for example, Gunn high (one of the best STEM public schools in the US) may have a ranking of 60 within their school, yet are getting 1560s on SAT, indicating they are better than 99% of kids from other schools, but in their local context they are mediocre. They could be getting straight 4s and 5s on AP tests as well.
Compare that to one who goes to a rural, way less pressuring school where a student is rank 1 but has 1400 SAT and maybe 3s and 4s on AP tests.
Would colleges see that on a national scale, the student from Gunn was clearly way smarter although the rural student could brag about being valedictorian? Who would they see as more hardworking?
Go to your guidance counselor. I’m willing to bet he/she will set you at ease. At our competitive public high school, LOTS of kids get into very selective (including Ivy) colleges with a handful of Bs on their transcripts. We have about 700 kids per grade and maybe the top 60 or so will get a 35+ on the ACT or a 1530+ on the SAT…so there are a lot of bright kids. Compare that with my niece’s school about 20 minutes from here and she’s in the top 5% of her class and couldn’t break a 30 on the ACT. Spent half the time on homework as our S19. The two schools are just not comparable when it comes to rigor. AOs know which schools are rigorous by looking at the school profile.
An outstanding score on a standardized test is not always an indicator of ability to perform in a classroom setting or to be successful in college.
It is often assumed here on CC that kids with good GPAs and lower standardized test scores than correspondingly expected are likely to be attending a school that “inflates” grades. That is not always the case. A kid with a great standardized test score and a lower than expected GPA should elicit a red flag just as much.
Kids are not “claiming” to be val/sal they ARE val/sal in comparison the their classmates. Their accomplishment is not less simply because of the school they went to and “you” are not better because you went to a “competitive” school.
Have no fear, Adcoms are surprisingly capable of making a fair evaluation about who is going to be successful at their particular school.
Some of the best indicators of potential collegiate success, IMO… are course rigor, willingness to challenge yourself even if you end up with a B or C and extracurriculars that demonstrate ability to successfully interact with peers and teachers/adults and manage your time.
If u truly believe that ur school has the vigor (thus ur As, or Bs for that matter, “worths” more than those earned in a less competitive school), then u should be happy because u got a good education and u will have life-long benefits from it. However, u really have no basis to say that because u have higher standardized test scores than 99% of other kids, ur less than stellar GPA should not be used to against u in college application. Standardized tests actually have the strongest correlation with family income than with anything else, u most likely r not as competitive as a Val/sal from a less competitive school.
So this is exactly what my children attended. How do you rationalize that my children attended a school like this and surpassed your SAT premise? They were ranked number one to five for Val, were national merit **winners **, and got fives on all of their AP tests, with high GPAs. How do you rationalize that? I didn’t think it was important where they went to high school as long as what they did was accessible to them.
How is placement typically? Talk to your GC. At my child’s rigorous private high school, they have stats that go beyond Naviance and will let you know the academic profiles, legacy status, athletic recruit, etc of recent graduates (no names of course, and it’s only available in the office) and where they went to college. The GPAs and class ranks are definitely lower than what’s reported in a college’s Common Data Set. This is a school where about 40% go to Ivies (and 65%+ to top schools) so they can’t all be in the top 10% of the class. Like your school, the mean ACT/SAT score is high (33 and 1500ish, I think.)
But yes, from my experience, it may hurt you at big public schools or schools that only go by stats. However, in the long run, the education that you are getting now is what matters.
It actually doesn’t work like that, at all. Colleges do NOT use the SAT/AP tests “so they can compare students” across schools and states. Truth: they use the test scores as one piece in a much larger puzzle.
Remember, your guidance counselor also sends in a school profile (also called ‘secondary school report’) so that adcoms can compare your stats and rigor against what is offered IN YOUR OWN SCHOOL. @auntbea is completely right: it’s not so much where you go to school - it’s how much you take advantage of what is offered at your school.
Example: which kid has the edge in admissions?
Kid A: attends affluent and highly competitve public school with 25+ AP offerings. Takes 10 AP classes. Gets 4-5 on each. Has a 1400 SAT and a 3.9. Highest math level taken is AP Calc BC. Has AP Chem and AP Bio. Rank is top 20%.
Kid B: attends regular old high school with 8+ AP offerings. Takes 8 AP offerings (all that is available). Gets 3-5 on each. Has a 1400 SAT and a 3.9. High math taken is AP Calc AB, because that is the highest level his high school offers. Has no AP Chem or AP Bio (not offered at this school). Rank is top 5%.
Kid B has the edge in admissions, and has an even bigger edge if his high school is in an underrepresented area of the state or country.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the school profile is sent from the guidance counselor portion of the application. On our profile it shows test score trends, population, salary avg., graduation rates, post secondary attendance, etc.
Only schools using the common app (not sure about coalition app) or that request a counselor report will get a HS school profile. Most of DD2018’s schools did not get one.
I think most universities/colleges are aware of the caliber of the HSs from which they get their many of their applicants. Certainly, in some instances, there are applicants from an unknown entity and then the university has to rely more heavily on the individual application and roll the dice if they are going to accept the applicant.