<p>HI mom:</p>
<p>I totally agree that it is often hard to know when to say something because we want our kids to "handle stuff" themselves. Not only was S upset but H was upset, too. The two therapists that we spoke to were so shocked by what was said that they insisted that we talk to the principal and teacher.</p>
<p>Fast forward, 7 years later, my D doesn't even remember the teacher calling attention to D's low weight or other things. I'm glad there has been no lasting effect on D. I know she does remember the yelling/screamng GT teacher--it was a running school joke, "Gifted & Tortured," as they surely were in that class. The teacher continues to teach, I believe.</p>
<p>Okay. I've read 5 pages of everybody chiming in, and I'm ready to throw out a dissenting opinion. (By the way, Jlauer95 - you've had trouble with teachers at every school your kids have gone to - haven't you? You've started several threads about the awful things that teachers have done to your kids over the years at various schools, and how incompetent they have been, and how bad the administration has been, etc. etc..)<br>
Anyhooo....I remember being 16 years old. I had good relationships with my teachers, and I was happy to talk and share with them about personal issues. I can't IMAGINE having had one of them call my parents to discuss issues about me with them. When you are 16, you are not a little child that needs mommy or daddy to come to your defense when a teacher discusses some concerns with you. Speaking of which..... Jlauer, were you there at the discussion between the teacher and your teen? No? Surprising how everyone wants to hop in and judge the teacher's supposed comments without having heard them, or how they were delivered, or in what context they were introduced. We have a report from a mom (and from what I've read of her posts, an extremely overreactive, mountain-out-of-molehill and quick-to-judge mom at that) about a report from her son. That's heresay once-removed! Is there a place for a teacher to express his/her concerns about a kid without involving mom and dad? Heck, yes! I didn't hear her exact words -so I'm not willing to condemn her just on jlauer's secondhand report. JMHO</p>
<p>anxiousmom - </p>
<p>Not to dissent with the dissenter :-), but we can only take each other's word in this sort of forum. There is no way to verify anything that any of us say. Virtually every experience of every person described here is heresay in one form or another. So we work with what we got ya know?</p>
<p>That being said, any teacher that takes a minor aside and implies to them that their future holds either dysfunction or suicide is over the line.</p>
<p>I still think that the teacher behaved inappropriately, and I would be upset if this happened to one of my children. We all come here to share our problems in the hope of hearing some sound advice or another point of view. Since the teacher in question did not post the problem, we can only see this from Jlauer's point of view. I don't have any reason to think she is making this up. I think she's just a mom looking for some help.</p>
<p>anxiousmom -
"I had good relationships with my teachers, and I was happy to talk and share with them about personal issues. "</p>
<p>That's the thing - that's exactly what it should be, and fortunately it was for you. I know that, at 16, I would have had trouble with dealing with a teacher like jlauer's son's. I might not have spoken to my parents about it because they would, in fact, have erupted (and we're talking Pompeii fallout, here).</p>
<p>With the mean girl bullying, they really didn't do anything...my letters were about the teachers telling the entire class the were not any good, and that the class ahead of them were stars, and these kids wouldn't get into any good schools- I stepped in because it was an attack on the entire class, and made several kids cry...it was indeed brutal...and I worked with other parents in handling it...it was a general thing about the teachers...when the teachers the next year (8th grade) wondered why the kids had problems with the 7th grade teachers, the student felt comfortable enough to say something and the 8th grade teachers were appaulled, but they finally understood...</p>
<p>usually though, I tried to get my Ds to handle it...</p>
<p>it was just uncalled for and stupid, but they couldn't hide it cause other parents complained</p>
<p>with the mean girls, it was very complicated...my main point to the administration was that the school was reinforcing the bullying by backing the bullies, who had a knack for crying on cue..there was an incident wit another girl and AIM and the bullies denied any wrong doing and got away with it...so I documented everything and sent it in...with these teachers, nothing changes fast, like the Vatican, but they knew they were being watched and needed to be more aware of how they treated the kids...</p>
<p>I do agree that sometimes kids hear things in a different way then we do</p>
<p>My D came home, my english teacher hates me, she ONLY ever calls on so and so, she doesn't grade me fair, and on and on...please do something...I suggested she meet with the teacher, to talk about the book, the assignment, whatever...get to know her better...and handle it on her own...and if nothing changed, then SHE should talk to her counselor</p>
<p>now she LOVES that teacher...if I had even considered saying anything, my D never would have figured out this teacher and how this teacher worked...now this teacher thinks my D is amazing</p>
<p>
[quote]
...we can only see this from Jlauer's point of view. I don't have any reason to think she is making this up. I think she's just a mom looking for some help.
[/quote]
yes, but I think Jlauer's point of view is way, way off. I've read posts from her for the last few months and they don't seem "fair and balanced."
[quote]
That being said, any teacher that takes a minor aside and implies to them that their future holds either dysfunction or suicide is over the line.
[/quote]
I'm with you there, but that's not what I got from the original post..
[quote]
Recently, this teacher took him aside and told him that she is worried about him because he reminds her of two students that she once had. One student had a nervous breakdown and can only do menial jobs and the other went to college and got drunk at frat parties and is now disfunctional.
[/quote]
I don't see any suicide in there. IF, and this is a big IF, the teacher said exactly what the OP wrote, yes, she was out-of-line...but I think it is quite possible that she was expressing concern and sharing info in a way that was not out-of-line.... (because I think Jlauer has a record of overreacting to school related stuff - as evidenced by all her posts of problems with schools and teachers.)</p>
<p>Given that the parents met with the teacher and principal, it appears unlikely that there has been any misunderstanding about the teacher's opinion of jlauer's son, or about the remarks that were made. In fact, the administration's position seems to be that the teacher has every right to make such off-the-cuff psychological assessments.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>(because I think Jlauer has a record of overreacting to school related stuff - as evidenced by all her posts of problems with schools and teachers.) <<<t</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Spoken by a true-blue loyal-blind teacher.... (because, omigod, if there are teachers who do somethings wrong, what does that say about me? waahhhhh)</p>
<p>If you really did read all my posts, you would see that most were not about my own kids' experiences (altho I have mentioned a few from a prior middle school and the one chemistry teacher who refused to teach after her divorce - AND she was fired (so obviously I did not overreact about THAT because I never even went to the principal about it - others did!!!). Most of my posts were about friends and family's experiences and those of mine were just about silly things that happened but not anything that I went to the principal about or even the teacher. I am not one who "over-reacts" to these things. I started the thread "Are schools stupid" at the time the 20/20 "Are kids stupid" came out. People posted all the crazy, nutty, or weird things that schools have done (or silly rules that some schools have). No one "overreacted". </p>
<p>Over the years a parent comes into contact with several schools and probably 50 or more teachers (depending on the number of kids a person has). Chances are that with a number that big, there will be a few bad ones (teachers and schools) in the bunch. I bet if you had 50 or more different doctors, dentists, etc, YOU would have some stories to tell, too. At my kids' present school, we have LOVED nearly ALL the teachers -- (even the one who asked on a homework assignment, "If Jesus was a flower, what would his scent be? Yes, we still chuckle about that one..... but a nice teacher.)</p>
<p>BTW, I am not the one who uses "anxousmom" as a SN. But maybe you should change it to: anxiousoversensitiveteachermom</p>
<p>ADAD: </p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>We just found out that after we left the principal's office on Friday, the teacher did get royally chewed out. She didn't come to school yesterday and "rumor has it" that she will no longer be teaching my son's class. (When the teacher recounted her "side of the story" to the principal and us, her words were even WORSE than what our son had told us!!!!)</p>
<p>anxiousmom: The above wouldn't have happened if the school thought I was the "overreacting" type. The admin know me well because I am a frequent volunteer at the school.</p>
<p>Wow. You have done your son and future students a great service by reining in and/or facilitating the removal of this teacher.</p>
<p>citygirlsmom:</p>
<p>The bullying issue is going to be "with us" for awhile until somone (or group) can figure out some method to proactively prevent bullying from happening in the first place. At our middle school, the worse "mean girls" were daughters of the cattiest & most jealous moms (what a surprise). Frankly, I think that until the parents can be "brought on board" about how bullies/mean girls are created (in their own homes) then the problem will continue. One mom of a mean girl actually made a HUGE deal when the family of a "victim" inadvertantly bought a nicer version of the same car the mean girl's family had. This only exacerbated the bullying. When parents make critical remarks about classmates (unattractive, fat, dumb, bad hair, etc) then the kids take the cue to bring those messages to school (YES, parents do make these kinds of "passing remarks" about their kids' classmates! Dads are famous for making criticism of classmates' athletic abilities after the team does poorly in a game "Matt was so spastic out there...")</p>
<p>(Hey, note to anxiousmom, I notice nutty parents, too -- so do I have a history with "parents" too? I also became quite upset when my sis's transplant doctor made a critical error in her treatment which caused her to lose transplant #1 AND a neurologist made a critical error after my mom's stroke (didn't give her the 3 hours post med and now she has permanent brain damage), so do I have a problem with doctors too??)</p>
<p>Although I think there are some amazingly inaccurate generalizations about teachers on this thread, I did appreciate aries' comments about the supposed "sickness" (ha!) of introversion. This is from a parent who periodically was "warned" about this aspect of D#1's personality, from K through 12. (Guess all 4 super-reach Universities to which she applied had no problem with her supposed illness, since they all accepted her -- unless all the admissions officers are mentally ill, too..... Now, now, resist the temptation, folks.)</p>
<p>Anyway, this is from a parent of one gifted super-introvert & one gifted mostly-extrovert. (I agree with AriesA about many of the misperceptions regarding the gifted introvert.)</p>
<p>My bottom line regarding this teacher & administration is mostly in keeping with Alumother's post, despite the unprofessionalism demonstrated by the teacher, as reported by the OP. It always embarrasses & dismays me to see or to hear reported such behavior in an educational setting. I'll PM further thoughts.</p>
<p>
[quote]
When you are 16, you are not a little child that needs mommy or daddy to come to your defense when a teacher discusses some concerns with you.
[/quote]
Yeah, but, you know, when youre 16, maybe a little shy and somewhat unsure of yourself (as MANY 16 year-olds are), it can be a big hit against you to have some teacher dump a heavy assessment about your personality on you. The teacher really should have gone to the parents and/or a GC first. I think sometimes we parents try to force our kids to grow up too fast. I personally dont think 16 year-olds are prepared to deal with a lot of the issues they are facing right now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Speaking of which..... Jlauer, were you there at the discussion between the teacher and your teen? No? Surprising how everyone wants to hop in and judge the teacher's supposed comments without having heard them, or how they were delivered, or in what context they were introduced.
[/quote]
I think this is a good point, but in my view even if the teacher was as sweet as Splenda(tm) as she spoke, she just ought not have given this kid a serious-minded psychological evaluation, however brief and informal it was. I dont think kids are typically in the best position to make the changes this teacher implied were needed. Even if she were successful in getting the desired results, just think of what could have happened if the kid really was on the edge. Did somebody say Columbine here???? Heavy stuff like this just ought not be thrown around, in my view.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We have a report from a mom (and from what I've read of her posts, an extremely overreactive, mountain-out-of-molehill and quick-to-judge mom at that) about a report from her son.
[/quote]
You know what? You made some really fine points, points that I think are useful and that can help a lot of people. But cmon. This stuff here was just sad. You are attacking jlauer. Yeah. You gotta consider the credibility of the people involved, but you didnt have to do it like this. I would have said something like this:</p>
<p>We parents can get really outta shape when it comes to our kids. Not to bring jlauer into this, but it may often be that in these situations the parents are mishearing what really went on. So we ought to keep this in mind as we discuss this.</p>
<p>With this approach, you focus only on the issue of credibility without calling someone bad stuff and getting people upset unnecessarily. I dont like jlauer either. Cant STAND the woman (JUST KIDDING JLAUER!!!! HAHA! Trying to lighten mess up here!!! HA HA HA!), but I dont have a need to insult her.</p>
<p>I must have missed reading the generalizations. I've tried to read all the posts and saw specific details towards specific or a few teachers. I didn't see any statements that "pushed all teachers under the school bus" so to speak. I think all those who posted could list far more teachers that they love and respect than those that have said or done something inappropriate to a kid/class. </p>
<p>It's like ANY profession. We can make long lists of doctors, dentists, plumbers, contractors, that we all love but we can tell horror stories about the ones who did some really awful things. </p>
<p>Would the teachers who are offended by this thread, be equally offended if it read "How do I deal with the therapist who wrongly counseled our son?" No!!! These offended teachers would understand that a parent would have a VALID concern if a therapist said something horribly wrong to a kid. However, because the offender is a teacher, then they have to be so offended and go into denial about the whole thing. Not only am I a former teacher (I still occasionally sub) but I have 3 sisters in laws who are teachers. None of them get offended like some on CC do. Actually, they (my 3 sils) tell the funniest stories.</p>
<p>I think you misunderstood me, jlauer. I think you're overreacting. I wasn't referring to your thread-opener. I was actually seconding an earlier replier who also noted inappropriate generalizations. Gee. ..............
Anyway, I PM'ed you.</p>
<p>I usually try to stay out of the fray on threads like this, but I feel I need to weigh in in support of what I think anxiousmom was referring to. For the past two years I've been lurking and occasionally posting on this forum when I think I can offer help. I've learned so much and appreciated the range of opinions presented by the vast majority of posters. </p>
<p>However, since very early on in her joining the forum, I have sensed a negativity and more importantly a soliciting of other posters to join in and contribute to the kivetching mode fostered by the OP. I'm not saying this is always the case with jlauer's posts, but it is a consistent theme. Just my cummulative opinion, and believe me, I'm no Pollyanna! Fire away!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Fire away!
[/quote]
Let's not. If we can't keep on the issue before us without hacking at a living breathing person, I say lets just drop the whole thing.</p>
<p>For the record, I like Jlauer, though I **think<a href="not%20sure">/b</a> I may have disagreed with several of her opinions. Of course, I think I like everybody I've met here. So, I guess that is not saying much.</p>
<p>But c'mon folks. Please don't turn this into a "Let's Beat Up JLauer!!!" thread. (gggg)</p>
<p>Dross, not trying to beat up on anyone, just trying lend some much needed context to this thread. It's obviously out of place here, so I will cease contributing opinions and go back to my more factual existence. Carry on.</p>