<p>“, many of those who have GPA’s less than ideal enroll in postbacc programs of one sort or another to improve their GPA, so their is infrastructure in place for taking care of that problem (within reason) after undergrad.”</p>
<p>I thought that med-schools only look at undergraduate GPA, not grad school.</p>
<p>that is incorrect</p>
<p>But even then, a low undergraduate gpa is not so easily condoned. For example, if someone’s undergrad gpa is 3.0, they will have to take a postbac in the same amount of units(lol, thats 4 more years), earning straight A’s, just to get the average admit gpa. Also, they average retake gpa with with the regular gpa. For example, someone gets an F in physics, and then they retook it for an A, they will get a C according to AMCAS calculations.</p>
<p>“Just make a 4.0, it’s not as hard as some people will have you believe”</p>
<p>@WimpLo, I never said it was easy, I just said that it is the most important factor for admissions. GPA is permanent. However, ECs can always be made up later. As far as MCATs go, people can decide wether they want to take them or not according to what they get on practice tests, thus avoiding an “official” low score. </p>
<p>Also, we all know that we can save ourselves a couple of decimal points just by using Rate My Professors. com.</p>
<p>also not true - for AMCAS all of your grades will be reported.</p>
<p>and of course it is difficult to greatly raise your GPA after for year’s of coursework, that’s just common sense. The problem is that you seem to think that the other issues are so easily remedied. Frankly, it seems to me that this comes from a bias resulting from the fact that you have good grades but poor ECs and are likely in the hole when it comes to preparing for the MCAT (If you’re at a CC for financial reasons, adequately preparing may be difficult for you, and the quality of CC coursework will likely leave you less prepared for the material on the MCAT). Strong commitments to ECs, particularly in the areas of research and leadership roles, take years to build and are not things you can simply slap together at the last minute.</p>
<p>“The problem is that you seem to think that the other issues are so easily remedied.”</p>
<p>No, that is not the case. I’ve never said that it is easy to ace the MCAT or that one can slap together a conglomeration of ECs at the last minute. What I’m saying is that GPA is the only factor that can keep a person out of med-school. An application marred with low grades won’t even make it pass the first screening regardless of other factors. Conversely, a low MCAT score coupled with high GPA will keep a person out of Med-school only for that year’s round. Keep in mind that when I say low MCAT score, I don’t mean the score that they got on the actual MCAT, but rather on practice tests. After all, who in their right mind would actually take the MCAT if they keep on bombing the practice tests? So back to the argument, people with high gpa can always take a year or two off in order to improve MCAT scores. Meanwhile they can get a job and do some clinical ECs on the side. The second time around, their application can only be stronger. Perhaps they can even get in the second time. I’m not saying that it would be easy, but at least they have a chance with a high gpa. </p>
<p>“it seems to me that this comes from a bias”</p>
<p>I’m just looking at things objectively. If I had low gpa with great ECs and a high MCAT, my views would remain unaltered.</p>
<p>MCATs only take about 3-4 months to prepare, let alone 1 or 2 years.</p>
<p>A high GPA and a shaky MCAT is only a red flag meaning that either the applicant is poor at taking standardized tests or his/her school was not challenging enough</p>
<p>From what I’ve heard, schools are willing to take a risk on a applicant with a shaky GPA and high MCAT over high GPA and low MCAT. Apparently the reasoning is that study skills/work ethic can be developed. Sort of like the saying how you can’t teach speed but you can teach technique</p>
<p>Student14x, I wasn’t talking about your comment. Wasn’t even aware of it. I was being serious. </p>
<p>I have maimed, tortured and threatened people’s families to maintain my GPA. Medical school adcoms are no joke and should be treated seriously.</p>
<p>
I like this guy; he has a dedication rarely found in most premeds. I would certainly want such a person to be my doctor, knowing with full confidence that they are wholly committed to medicine.</p>
<p>I hope one day, I too can be so great a premed.</p>
<p>“MCATs only take about 3-4 months to prepare, let alone 1 or 2 years.”</p>
<p>If one can increase their score with 3-4 months of preparation, can’t greater scores be obtained in 1-2 years? After all, I’ve seen many instances where students were able to receive several hundred point boosts on the SAT in a period of about 4 years. Sure its not the MCAT, but it is still a aptitude test. As people mature, they get smarter. So test scores should increase. </p>
<p>“schools are willing to take a risk on a applicant with a shaky GPA and high MCAT over high GPA and low MCAT.”</p>
<p>My argument isn’t about the value that the adcoms place on the MCAT vs GPA. Its about the fact that GPA is more critical. GPA can keep a person out of med school. The MCAT can’t if one doesn’t bomb it. even if that means not taking it. The scenario about the person with the high gpa and low MCAT shouldn’t even happen. After all, who would actually take the MCAT if they got low practice test scores.</p>
<p>These arguments are severely illogical.</p>
<p>1.)
</p>
<p>[Diminishing</a> returns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns]Diminishing”>Diminishing returns - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>2.)
</p>
<p>Didn’t you just counter your own argument? Yes, people’s MCAT scores will improve over the course of four years, but it’s not STUDYING for four years that will make it happen. It’s a natural progression that comes with being a reasonable undergrad.</p>
<p>(Smarter is not the correct word, but I understood what you meant.)</p>
<p>3.)
Bottom line is that only 25% of people who take the MCAT are eventually admitted to medical school. Of course they’re not ALL excluded based on their MCAT scores, but many of them are. Some people simply have a maximum score, and sometimes it’s simply not good enough.</p>
<p>“I’ve seen many instances where students were able to receive several hundred point boosts on the SAT in a period of about 4 years.”</p>
<p>That doesn’t mean they studied 4 years for the SAT (god, I hope not). I took the SAT’s in 8th grade as part of JHU’s program. I scored around 1300. Then I did not look at it again until the 11th grade. The only “studying” I ended up doing was taking 2-3 practice tests. I scored 1550 in 11th grade. The fact my SAT score improved doesn’t mean I needed to study for 4 years. It meant that I shouldn’t have taken it in 8th grade since the SAT was designed to be a test taken by HS juniors. In 8th grade, I didn’t have the maturity, stamina, or experience to do well on it.</p>
<p>I’m sure if an 12th grader took the MCAT now and when he’s a junior in college, he’ll score much higher the 2nd time. It doesn’t mean he needs to study for 4 years for it. It means that the MCAT (a test meant to be taken by college juniors and seniors) should only be taken after having had the appropriate coursework. </p>
<p>Neither the SAT’s nor the MCAT require 1 or 2 years of studying. They require 1-2 years of extra maturity. That’s precisely the reason why it’s inane to even think about it now.</p>
<p>By the way, BDM brings up the principle of diminishing returns. Even within a summer of studying, you’ll experience that. After a few weeks of studying, my practice MCAT scores leveled off. I essentially spent the last 3 weeks or so before my test taking nothing but practice tests in order to stay sharp. My actual studying was done way before then. Diminishing returns is good. It means you’ve studied all you can and have achieved your potential.</p>
<p>“They require 1-2 years of extra maturity”</p>
<p>But this maturity is gained by studying. For instance, by taking more courses in English and writing, verbal scores can be improved. The studying is indirect. </p>
<p>“Diminishing returns is good. It means you’ve studied all you can and have achieved your potential.”</p>
<p>But this is true for only a short amount of time. e.g 3 weeks. If it were several years, then the score would go up significantly. Due to the increases in maturity that you mentioned.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Fine, yes. We support indirect studying. Go to a good college. Take good courses. Learn well in them. Don’t pay any attention to the MCAT.</p>
<p>“Fine, yes. We support indirect studying. Go to a good college. Take good courses. Learn well in them. Don’t pay any attention to the MCAT.”</p>
<p>First you say that scores increase do to increases in maturity over long periods of time. Now you are saying that studying for the MCAT matters. This is also inconsistent with the “Law of diminishing returns” argument you brought up.</p>
<p>No! No no no! We do NOT support studying for the MCAT for more than a couple of months, which was the entire point of having the discussion about direct vs. indirect studying! My goodness! What part of the phrase “Don’t pay any attention to the MCAT” is unclear to you?!</p>
<p>Pay attention to what we’re talking about! First, the argument about diminishing returns was made in the context of kids wanting to sit down with practice MCATs and books. You’re going to max out on direct studying in a couple months, which is why we tell kids **not to bother with it **until a couple months before!</p>
<p>And of course indirect studying will have diminishing returns too! Everything does! It’s a basic component of the real world! Of course it’s a slower timeframe, since the payoff is so much slower to begin with! Pay attention when people talk to you!</p>
<p>“! What part of the phrase “Don’t pay any attention to the MCAT” is unclear to you?!”</p>
<p>Sorry, I thought I sensed sarcasm.</p>
<p>This has to be a College Confidential thing. I’ve never even met a person who started studying before the summer after their sophomore year.</p>
<p>I’m not studying for the MCAT( I’ve only taken 25% of premed courses). I’m just making a argument relating to it.</p>