How do you choose in HYP? and why?

Parents Forum
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<p>We are very ecstatic that kid got into HYP. Now the hard part comes. All schools are exceptionally good. I am telling my kid that Princeton aid is best among colleges. However, Kid likes Yale and Harvard more than Princeton. </p>

<p>During SCEA round, Yale offered a very good financial aid package. However we wanted to compare. She received outside scholarships that would cover $6000 each year for college. This will allow her to pursue her passions without worrying about summer work and work study. We are hoping that her need based aid would be generous. Aid will not be a factor in choosing any college, as kid should receive need based aid of more than $35,000 each year. </p>

<p>Our kid makes her own decision but value our input. We have no clue. So, how do we advice the kid without any bias? Kid decision will be the ultimate. Please educate us why each college has a plus. We would appreciate your positive feedback. Thanks</p>

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<p>I have some prejudices about each place I'd rather not share. But there are some differences in your choices:</p>

<p>Size, location, residential college system, strengths within majors, most of these can be researched and weighed as your child sees fit. In addition there is usually a campus vibe - that really takes a visit.</p>

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<p>Have you visited? Has she done overnight visits? Gone to classes? That's what I'd recommend if possible.</p>

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<p>In my opinion, this is not a decision worth worrying about. There are no bad choices here. Kid could pick Yale because she likes blue better than orange or crimson and it wouldn't matter.</p>

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<p>
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Our kid makes her own decision but value our input. We have no clue. So, how do we advice the kid without any bias? Kid decision will be the ultimate

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</p>

<p>You don't advise at this point. She knows your preferences by now. I assume she has visited? These three schools have a lot in common- actually they are more alike than not - all excellent medium-sized research universities.
Let her pick the one that speaks to her, whatever the rationale.</p>

6

<p>Mathmom: </p>

<p>Could you share your private thought by PM? We would like to know what is a positive and negative aspects for each place. </p>

<p>Her major is economics and political science. We have visited during summer for 3-5 hours. She will attend each of the pre frosh weekends. We honestly liked all the colleges and have no idea. We can not tell any significant difference.</p>

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<p>She cannot go wrong with any of these choices. At teh pre frosh weekends, she will probably get a feeling that she belongs at one particular school. My son was faced with a very similar choice between three of the very top schools in 2002, attended three pre frosh weekends, and went with his heart. His choice was not one which would be most "obvious" to most people. He had a wonderful eexperience at college and has never regretted his decision.</p>

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<p>I agree with the above. The kid could flip a coin, go to one of the three and never regret not attending either of the other two. Having said that, there are some differences between the three. None should be deal-breakers.
1. Harvard is largest, least self-contained of the three. Very urban. For some this is a major plus; for others, the lack of a well-defined campus is disconcerting. There is no campus-wide student center such as Frist at Princeton, which is a source of perennial student complaints. However, much of the social scene revolves around the Houses and there is a surfeit of things to do on any given day.
Some students do not care for the school calendar, with fall term finals at the end of January, but there has not been enough complaining to alter it, so it may not bother too many students. The calendar seems to allow some students to engage in their ECs (the real strength of Harvard) druing term time and cram later.<br>
Academics: for math and physics, Harvard and Princeton have an edge over Yale. For other sciences, they are all equal. For English and history, Yale has a slight edge over the other two. Princeton has engineering, and Harvard has just expanded its engineering offerings, renaming the Division of Engineering and Applied Sciences a School of Engineering and Applied Science, and succeeded in attracting more students into the School. For area studies, each school has its own strengths.
Yale: See above for academics. Note also that math and sciences are located on a hill, about a mile from the rest of the College. I read in the Yale Daily News that the shuttle bus is not always convenient and can be late at times. Students seem to love the residential college system.
Princeton: Students wishing for a more urban environment might prefer Harvard or even Yale, but others love its setting. The eating clubs attract a lot of attention. Princeton students are said to drink more than those at Harvard or Yale (or at least, they are more visible, since Princeton is a more self-contained environment). Princeton's endowment per student is highest of the three and it has the strongest focus on undergraduates. Its graduate school is tiny compared to Harvard's or Yale's.</p>

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<p>My son did his choosing during his spring break visit in junior year. It was a combination of the visit and focusing on his intended major. He met with professors from the department and sat in on a class. He picked as his first choice the place where he felt most comfortable, where he could see himself for four years. Most of the kids at his school made the same choice, Yale, because of the residential college system and the more intimate feel of Yale over Harvard. As a parent, I couldn't believe he and his fellow students didn't pick Harvard because, well, it's Harvard. In fact, for him Princeton was his second choice, again for the campus feel. Now, had he had an intended major where one school was clearly better than the others, he may have made a decision based on that and not "feel." So you have weigh what's important to you and go to the schools, take it all in, and see where you want to be.</p>

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<p>I think marite's summary is pretty darn good. In all honesty, Harvard probably has a stronger English department than Yale right now, but traditionally that has been a core strength of Yale.</p>

<p>Yale is slightly more undergraduate-focused than Harvard, but less so than Princeton. Princeton is beautiful-suburban, Yale ycchhy urban (but no one there minds much), and Harvard in one of the greatest urban settings ever. The whole Boston area is college heaven.</p>

<p>Yale's residential college system seems to work better than Harvard's house system because of random assignment of kids pre-matriculation. People love it. Princeton has a hybrid that has been creeping toward the Yale model for 20 years, and the eating clubs, which are sort-of-but-not-really like co-ed fraternities.</p>

<p>I think the atmosphere at Harvard is more overtly competitive than at Princeton or Yale, but all three have plenty of kids with sharp elbows and plenty who don't have them.</p>

<p>Kids absolutely love all three.</p>

11

<p>How is economics and political science department rated for each college? Kid has been offered a financial internship for this summer.</p>

<p>Can someone shed a light on opportunities to start their own personal clubs and activities; and college semester abroad programs such as LSE/China/Latin America? Do they provide better funding to pursue the dreams?</p>

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<p>No, I won't. Because they are irrational and probably 30 years out of date too. But you can guess which one I think is "too preppy." :)</p>

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<p>All of them have top economics departments. Yale and Harvard traditionally have great poli sci departments, too; Princeton has the Wilson school, which is probably the top policy grad school, and I think it offers undergraduate courses.</p>

<p>Mathmom: Everyone in my family agrees about the preppy one. But my wife (who had the deepest prejudices among us) taught a seminar there last year, and was bowled over by how smart, sophisticated, committed, and non-preppy the kids were. And one of my best friends from that school -- who loved it every bit as much as the preppy alums I know -- is a complete non-preppy whose entire career has been as a poverty lawyer and academic.</p>

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<p>JHS :</p>

<p>What is preppy means - from prep school ? Or is it somebody who is rich and behaves one way?</p>

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<p>Proudamerican:</p>

<p>All three schools have wonderful programs in China (Princeton in Asia; Yale-China; Harvard-Yenching Institute). Harvard's Rockefeller Center operates a couple of research centers in Latin America that place students in either universities or internships, but I think Princeton and Yale also send their students to Latin America. All three have study programs that send students to Europe and elsewhere. The difficulty is convincing students that they want to leave HYP even for a semester! Most students prefer to go abroad in the summer.</p>

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<p>I pretty much agree with marite's and some other assessments here. </p>

<p>The "answer" will probably be found in this statement: "She will attend all the pre-frosh weekends." (I assume you mean, Hosting Days.) That's when my own made a decision between the 2 of them, which until then, she could not decide between. It's really comfort level that helps decide, as well as a more intimate, stress-free opportunity to view them, now that acceptances are <em>over</em>. When the student revisits (which I recommend she do unaccompanied by parents, if possible), the comparative views become clearer, more focused as to differences.</p>

<p>The "parental input" I would provide would be two:</p>

<p>(1) Dear Daughter: when you revisit, notice if there is any difference in comfort level, including daily aspects such as getting around from place to place, friendliness of students, general social atmosphere. (When students aren't happy socially, it can interfere major with their studies.)</p>

<p>(2) Think about the academic undergrad opportunities you want, & whether one of those 3 Universities is stronger. (Often, when students can envision themselves in several academic or career paths, I suggest H, because there are so many strong departments at H. On the other hand, if the student is very focused, I sometimes suggest P because of the size/intimacy which others have mentioned.)</p>

<p>(3) Think about whether (now) you tend to spend most of your time at school & in your residence, or whether you need to get out often into a city environment that you enjoy. NYC is about 90 minutes from P; JHS has mentioned the less appealing urban surround of Y. (than H) Note, however, that most often college kids travel together into surrounding cities, so again, student will not be doing a lot of extra-campus activity unless friends are made, probably.</p>

<p>(4) Visit profs & classes during hosting days, esp. in academic interest areas. Get a feel for the resources, accessibility, enthusiasm, & general excellence of the particular department(s)/majors in mind. Such comparisons among the 3 schools may help to differentiate them.</p>

<p>And just in general, as much as she appreciates "parental input," remind her that you won't be attending, she will. Her opinion is the one that matters, given that academically they are all stellar. The daily aspects & social aspects can make a difference in how students perform academically, particularly when students are no longer sheltered at home & have to manage socially & practically without their parents.</p>

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<p>For the meaning of preppy look here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=preppy%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=preppy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Preppy can mean a lot of things, depending on who's saying it & what their prejudices & assumptions are. </p>

<p>I appreciated JHS' comments because not only are there some stereotypes still operative, but times have changed. Their is still a core of preppiness at P, but many students rarely if ever encounter much of that, because of the residential college system, because of choices in dining clubs, etc. The "preps" seem to hang out together, & the non-preps go about their business studying without drinking, & getting the most out of their education, just like at other schools.;)</p>

<p>Preppy can be a certain style of dress ("popped collars," as the students like to say on CC), as well as a certain expectation of income, lifestyle, family background -- all originating, yes, from a prep-school culture.</p>

<p>A true introvert -- one who is not only quite & shy, but who typically keeps a very small circle of friends & prefers it that way -- is sometimes uncomfortable in a larger environment such as H. On the other hand, true extroverts who are also most comfortable in urban settings, often choose H <em>because</em> of the size, the opportunities, the urban stimulation. They need to bounce off of many personalities, and they get their energy & even their focus by having many outside sources to draw on.</p>

<p>It's true that the Wilson school is awesome. I am so impressed by their conferences & convocations. Their guests, their topics, are so academically solid. I've watched a couple of them televised. But again in this respect, I think of H as the interface with the world, P as the interface first with academia, second with the world. I don't know how to justify that impression. One is not better than the other. Nor is H "less" academic. (Hardly!) It's just that I think of H as more out there on the world stage, so to speak. Some students like that, some students would prefer a less out-there emphasis.</p>

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<p>Congrats on what is obviously a very pleasant dilemma! :)</p>

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<p>Could college pay to attend the bull dog (pre-frosh) weekend?</p>