<p>OK, so my writing class is about higher education, and for my final project I've decided to write a paper about how college rankings affect a prospective student's definition/views/opinions on higher education. I want to know about your experiences with these rankings and how much your kids used them in the college search, and maybe how it changed the way they felt. </p>
<p>Thanks a bunch.</p>
<p>From a student's perspective, I think the college rankings affect many different things, especially choice of schools. Many people nowadays no longer look for schools that they truly like, rather just apply to the schools rank from 1-7 and then pick 2 random in state schools to apply to. When you ask these students why they picked these schools, they have no answer. I think these college rankings have greatly hurt student choices.</p>
<p>But I think it has benefited also cuz many students have their hearts set on one place in particular, however, it is not prestigious. College rankings show how this college compares to the rest and can give the student a better idea/way to make their choice. </p>
<p>but honestly, i think college rankings are more harmful than beneficial. they affect college decisions in a negative way.</p>
<p>Useful for a 4.0 student to eliminate 3rd and 4th tier schools.</p>
<p>I used to think that college rankings were not very useful since the specific criteria on which they are based are sometimes pretty worthless (if they are even identified) or at least they are not relevant to the individual student trying to pick a college. The annual rankings seem to foster a frenzy of bragging and lead to increased pressure on students to get into the "top tier" schools. Good schools -- that might be a better "fit" for the student -- aren't even considered because they don't rank high enough.</p>
<p>However, I may be changing my mind now. My son is interested in design -- an area that his parents know nothing about. (We're both engineers.) It's also an area where his school guidance counselor and teachers aren't much help much either. (He attends a private school that is heavy on the math and science but offers little in the way of art classes.) It has been very difficult to get information on which to compare art school programs -- particularly since there is such a tremendous diversity in curricukum, emphasis, etc. I'm beginning to wish there were some rankings to at least give us someone's opinion about the best art schools!</p>
<p>Worriedmom - your situation is different, because you are looking for a comparison as to specific program. In fact, your situation illustrates the problem with the rankings -- the top art schools may very well fall in the US News 2nd or 3rd tier. My daughter is a dancer, and I know that for dance majors, some of the strongest programs are with state universities that are not particularly difficult in terms of academic standards. My daughter doesn't want to major in dance -- but if she did I know that she would looking at an entirely different set of schools. </p>
<p>Your problem is that your son also happens to be going to a high school without much for him in the way of art -- that's unfortunate, because if he seriously wants to major in art, he might not be getting the support he needs to prepare a competitive portfolio to win admittance to the colleges with the strongest art programs. My daughter goes to an arts high school, so the kids do get the advising that they need. </p>
<p>Many kids who are exceptionally talented artistically do not necessarily excel in academic areas - so they may come to college with middling grades and SAT scores. The best teachers may be practicing artists who don't have the advanced educational credentials that qualify them for employment at more academically rigorous universities. </p>
<p>Again - this shows how much damage the rankings cause - because they have discouraged publishers and journalists from giving you comparative data related to more specialized areas. But even if there was a list of colleges with art programs -- you really don't want them "ranked" - you want information like the size of the program, the specific degrees offer, the reputation of the faculty, etc. </p>
<p>As for your family - I think your son needs to rely on outside resources geared to his interests. In a sense he is better off - he can make his decision on the basis of his own research and contacts, rather than having it colored by some new magazine's ideas based on arbitrary use of comparative data.</p>
<p>The only rankings my daughter used was the star system in the Fiske Guide for academics, social life, & quality of life. It was nice when her choices showed up high in the ranking guides for happy students & percentage getting ph.ds. But she came across those ranking guides much later in the process, after her choices were just about solidified.</p>
<p>I think rankings kind of give you a sense of security - they reassure you that you're not paying $30,000 plus a year for something that you could get pretty much for free at your local community college. But it's a false sense of security to rely on rankings alone in shopping for a college because they ignore so many personal factors that matter to you as an individual. Rankings don't measure how happy or satisfied YOU personally might be with a particular school. Ultimately, then, the only ranking that really matters is the ranking you do based on your own research and desires.</p>
<p>My daughter, nor I, used college rankings at all in her college admissions process. My daughter has never even read the rankings, nor would be able to tell you where her college ranks. I read the rankings once. The only useful part to me was that there are a lot of statistics gathered in one place about each school if you want to compare some aspect of a school to another. I believe my D preferred one or two schools ranked lower than another school she got into ranked higher when April rolled around. </p>
<p>Searchingavalon, the college directories are useful in that there is some data on each school or some surveys about different college criteria and which schools are strong in those respects. Also Fiske has lists of schools strong in certain disciplines and that list is useful (though is not the same as a ranking). Books like those are a resource in my opinion but not like the US News Ranking thing being referred to here. </p>
<p>Worried Mom, I also have a child pursuing a specialized degree in a particular field....BFA in musical theater and yes, any resources that give specifics on each program or which have good reputations would be useful. There are some directories of arts colleges...again, not a ranking. I don't need a ranking but yes, it helps to learn which programs are well regarded or fit your child's needs in this field. We just do a lot of research about them and talk to those who attend, plus there is great help on the College Confidential forums in this area. </p>
<p>Calmom is completely right in that the schools that excel in these specialized fields are not ones that are necessarily ranked highly on USNEWS. Some of the best dance programs ARE in state universities for instance. For musical theater, just like what Calmom was talking about, getting into the BFA program in that field at some schools is about a 5 % admit rate (extremely competitive) but getting into the university overall is not that competitive. For instance, a person in the general public who is not knowledgeable about BFA programs might say to my D, oh, I am sure you can get into Penn State, Syracuse, or Ithaca as they are not that hard to get into academically (she is a very good student) but they have no clue how difficult it is to get into the BFA programs at these schools which is far more selective than getting into the college/university itself. So, the "top" musical theater programs or art programs or dance programs won't even be the same schools ranked highly necessarily on lists like USNEWS. </p>
<p>You just have to research the schools. That is what we have done with both our kids (oldest is in liberal arts) and rankings did not play a part. They do want to go to excellent schools with good reputations that fit what they are looking for in a college, so that did matter, but the ranking itself was not the criteria. We did not refer to USNews ever. I only learned about how much "rankings" seem to matter to people so much when I began reading CC posts (particularly by student posters here).</p>
<p>Amused,</p>
<p>Neither of my kids as much as looked at college rankings. They did look at books and articles about college(s), mainly to get at some of the stats and other characteristics of colleges. But the rankings as such were irrelevant. In any case, the schools they were interested in were of varying degrees of difficulty or selectivity in admissions, and my kids were aware of the need to have some fall-back or safety schools based on selectivity.</p>
<p>Their main concern was to find a handful of colleges that suited their academic preferences (program, curriculum) and "social" tastes (location, size, prevailing student culture -- preppy, crunchy, etc.). For my son, whose academic tastes were more conventional, it was fairly easy to get information on the quality of the programs. Also, as a debater on the national circuit he had visited quite a number of colleges where he participated in debate tournaments. For my daughter, who wanted to specialize in art, none of the ranking systems was of much use, nor for that matter most of the general handbooks. </p>
<p>Neither kid is a creature of peers or fashion, so they were able to make up their minds pretty easily once they had found a handful of colleges to apply to and that admitted them. My son was admitted to Chicago, Williams, Carleton, UMich, and Reed. It wasn't so much the quality of the program as the size of the school and the location that were decisive when he came to select Chicago. (Finaid wasn't a factor.) My daughter was admitted to CMU, Rhode Island School of Design (RISD), Maryland Institute College of Art (MICA), Kansas City Art Institute, and Savannah College of Art and Design. It was the quality of the program and location that drew her to select RISD from that list.</p>
<p>I think rankings (or maybe stated better - lists) gave us a place to start. DD's preferences are not particularly determined by a set of rankings, but she used PReview's rating system as a jumping off place for formulating her list, particularly of reaches. I don't think that it is a surprise to any of us that the top 50 or so colleges/uni of all sizes are pretty much the same names on everyone's list, just the order varies. Statistically, I think that means something, it has to. But since all these ranking systems have an element of "reputation" or "prestige", as much as anything, they seem to be measuring longevity, size of endowment, "buzz".
The problem is when rankings are the sole determiner of what college the child wants, just as when the impressions at a single visit are the only criterion of the quality of the school - if you're going to be arbitrary (and, in the end, the decision is arbitrary), base your decision on more than one thing.
Our experience :rolleyes: was that a bad impression at the visit, trumped any prior research, ranking, quality of school, or apparent fit.</p>
<p>I agree with Cangel:</p>
<p>After speaking with college reps at student receptions, meet the alumni events, attending college fairs, catching campus tours, even some of the highly ranked schools get scratched from the list. All the research and narrowing of the college list was made even smaller after some personal interaction with the school or it's representatives. I expected a bit of that, but I was surprised by how many colleges I was able to take off my list. It was scary, though, to see what statistically was a match school that I was interested in, come across as something else after meeting reps.</p>
<p>Ranking, did not play much into my list of schools, although I do have a few that are near the top of USNew (although my list was made before it came out).</p>
<p>Just my take on this. Aloha. :)</p>
<p>The academic rankings meant nothing to my kids or me but when my daughter said that a study abroad was very important to her we looked at the schools that were ranked high in that aspect in the US NEWS book. There are so many things that make a school "fit" a student that ranking is just a piece of the puzzle.</p>
<p>My D chose CMU because it was in PITTSBURGH (go figure!) she LOVED the city and more importantly they offered some opportunities to take classes in the arts and music as well....she has a science mind with an artistic bent. But the real clincher for her ultimately was spending time in the classrooms at Mellon College of Science. She enjoyed the professors' hands-on approach, enjoyed the camaraderie of the other students, and was amused that the kids were known by first name by the profs!!! It also helped that the male/female ratio was 60/40! HA! And the fact the school was in the top 25 DID matter to her.</p>
<p>Oh and there was a study abroad program at University of Melbourne in CHemistry...she had been there one summer and loved it! Very unique opportunity that many of the colleges did NOT offer...chemistry in Australia.</p>
<p>I don't think mine knew what the rankings were (I did), but after turning up her nose (following visits) at W. and H. (both for what I thought were extremely good reasons), it all became a matter of fit. Being homeschoolers from a smallish town in the northwest, we (she) knew no one else out here applying to any of the snooty places, and there are very few alumni of the snooty places in town, and for most folks out here, rankings have more to do with football teams. Cougs vs. Huskies is a big issue. H vs. Y is a non-issue (the only Yalie we knew in the area was unemployed.)</p>
<p>Now, mind you, it could have become a matter of what we could afford, which is darn little, but the scholarship gods shone down upon our household and it never came to that.</p>
<p>Excuse me..but what are W? and H?</p>
<p>My S went to H and didnt know what snooty was..I suppose until he got there! I didn't find the kids snooty.....but they all bellowed alot when they talked. I was amused and at times dismayed. How could kids of that age be so knowledgeable? I am still baffled.</p>
<p>Williams and Harvard. Don't worry - mine now goes to a "snooty" place, too!</p>
<p>Snooty? How can all of the people at those places be snooty? The alumni on these boards from those places don't strike me as snooty. ;)</p>
<p>Sgio, I think Mini means W for Williams and H for Harvard. LIke his daughter, mine are not aware of the rankings. Local peers are not necessarily applying to the schools they are. They are aware of schools beyond those discussed locally however, due to their own research.</p>
<p>I do not think I realized you have a daughter at CMU. My 16 year old is an applicant there. We will be traveling there in late Feb. for her audition. It is nice to hear she likes Pittsburgh. My D can't imagine what Pittsburgh is like or if it is any fun at all but she is applying there because of the program. I'll tell her another kid really likes that location!</p>
<p>Susan</p>