Edit: just saw a later post stating that Washington is the state of residency. So the following may not be as interesting to you.
Most of the “West Coast” population is in California – does that apply to you?
Based on the admit rates of UCs by GPA bands (see http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1903428-faq-uc-historical-frosh-admit-rates-by-hs-gpa.html ), assuming not applying to a capacity limited major, UCB and UCLA can be considered high matches, while UCSD and UCSB can be considered matches to low matches, while the other UCs can be considered low matches to almost safeties (the subjective review of essays means that it is hard to say admission is certain even with a 98% admit rate for the GPA band).
However, many popular majors are capacity limited, such as engineering majors at many campuses, computer science at many campuses, etc., so admission will be more difficult than for the campus overall.
If you are not in California, then there is no need-based financial aid, so that only top-level merit scholarships may make the UCs affordable if you cannot pay out-of-state list price. This could move most or all of the campuses into the reach category for those scholarships.
We had the same worries with my senior daughter. I highly recommend finding some schools with early action so she gets some acceptances early to take the pressure off. And make sure she visits, interviews, “demonstrates interest” when possible. If visiting isn’t possible, meet with rep at local college fair or at her high school. Nothing insincere, just visit, interview if offered, talk with coach. DD received highest merit aid awarded from one school. Was accepted to all the EA schools and now just waiting on the under 20% acceptance rate schools. Feeling no pressure. Good luck!
IMO, there really isn’t any such thing as a “match”. You either get in or you don’t. If the student applies EA to a reach and gets in…then it’s a safety. If there is a school that everyone swears up and down is a solid or strong “match” and then the kid gets waitlisted … then that’s a reach.
So don’t worry about how the school ranks on someone else’s scale of top vs. lower tier – focus on what your daughter wants and make sure to include 2 or 3 safeties on the list. Safety = pretty darn sure of being accepted and being affordable If it is all reaches and safeties – it doesn’t matter. If there are no reaches at all and all the schools are either so-called matches …doen’t matter. The bottom line is that your daughter is applying to some schools which are certain to accept her and which she wouldn’t mind attending-- and then applying to a bunch of other schools that she really likes, but where admission isn’t guaranteed.
I’d add that it does make sense to take advantage of non-binding EA wherever it is offered – because that is a way of getting an early answer from a college when you are not sure of admission, and it also provides an extended opportunity to work with the swim coach and get a sense of fit. (I don’t know anything about sports recruitment, but I’d imagine that any athletic coach would be delighted to do their best to convince an already-admitted student to attend).
Right, and speaking of EA, many of the UK schools release decisions before you have to send out RD round apps (though, except for Oxbridge, they’re pretty much all rolling with decisions coming out weeks/months after an app is sent in).
Not in California - we’re in WA state. Merit aid would be nice, but is not needed. Swim team would need to be DIII for her to swim.
We’ve reached out to Claremont-McKenna and Cal Poly so far on the west coast, Cal Poly feels like a match academically but is less so for swim. The other UC’s are DI and she can’t swim there. Whitman has been ruled out because of locale and size (small town, too small of a school).
To be honest, part of the challenge with “match” vs “safety” schools is aiming for caliber of student and education. She has not found her tribe in high school. We think she needs a place with lots of kids who want to learn for the sake of learning, who sit around and solve complex math and physics problems for fun in their spare time, a place where being the quirky kid doesn’t make you stand out like a sore thumb.
That, plus a mid to high level DIII swim team and a 30-50% acceptance rate would be a win!
Maybe this is my bias showing but I don’t see her getting that at the University of Washington or WSU. If I need to be scolded about that, I’m ready for it
Look at overall selectivity. For example, a student with statistics and other achievements that would be in line with those of students at the most selective colleges in the nation might consider:
High reach: accepts fewer than 10% of applicants
Low reach: accepts between 10% and 20% of applicants
High match: 20-30%
Low match: 30-40%
Regular safety: over 40% and your stats are in their top 25%
Super safety: over 40% and your stats are well into their top 25% AND some aspect that makes it extra safe, such as automatic admission over certain stats or that everyone with your stats from your high school who ever applied there was accepted (Naviance).
These levels apply only to truly “top” candidates.
Geographic location and hooks can play into the determination of level of difficulty as well. If you are a member of a group for whom the school is looking for increased representation, it can help. Being a recruited athlete changes the game entirely.
That does not mean any student needs to choose a reach, if a match or safety is a better fit.
IMO, she should swing for the fences in ED. Swarthmore, U of C, etc.
Reed may be a match and also fit what she’s looking for.
Outside of the LACs that send a (proportionally) large number of kids to PhD math programs or are part of a consortium like the Quaker consortium, she may want to look at the research U’s that are strong in math (even at the grad level; for an academically talented kid who can handle high-level math, a big uni where the vast majority of kids are below her level may not be a problem if there is an honors college as the upper-level math courses will be small and challenging). Also Oxbridge and LSE (and probably guaranteed at Warwick) if she is willing to look abroad. She definitely will be with her peers in the econ course (major) at those places.
Probably no swimming at those places, however. How important is swimming to her?
Swimming is huge, but I’m getting some ideas here. Swarthmore has contacted her, as has Bowdoin for swim, so those could be a match for both academics and swim. I can see that I don’t know enough about schools who have An EA option that could at least ease some worries as we go through this process.
I also seem to remember that some schools do an EDI and EDII thing that I think I may need to look into further.
Make sure she sends emails to Ivy league coaches. Somebody may be interested in her stats. They may not reply now but may pop up later. Whoever gives her a Likely Letter will be her match:)
I can’t speak to the swimming (you are on your own) but agree with the poster who suggested Bryn Mawr, Wellesley, Barnard. She won’t be the quirky kid at these schools. Reed, Wesleyan, Tufts, Middlebury, Rice?
Pretty sure she can find those students at University of Washington, like at most state flagships. The main issue with University of Washington is that many majors are competitive admission after one enrolls at the school, which can mean an unhealthily competitive environment in frosh/soph level courses because it is not just pre-meds that feel that they have to grade-grub and cutthroat others. Applied math, math, and economics are competitive admission majors at University of Washington, but physics is not. http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/academic-planning/majors-and-minors/list-of-undergraduate-majors/ .
Remember that a big university is much larger than a high school, and concentrates the more academically-oriented students from a wide range of high schools. So the fact that her tribe is minimal at her high school does not mean that it will be minimal at a big university.
And UW-Seattle is a pretty good safety considering that they are strong in applied math and statistics (and CS and engineering; that whole quantitative sphere). I would actually take UW over CalPoly in her case because UW offers a lot more at the advanced level.
With swimming as a hook, Swarthmore may be a match where it would be a reach for everyone else. I’m actually hard-pressed to think of many other schools that would be higher up on her scale of desirability given the info you have given out about her and if her main concern is finding a tribe of smart curious quirky kids.
I think she will do well once decisions come.
Right, and building on what @ucbalumnus said, while UW may admit students with a wider range if abilities, the weaker students won’t be found in those quantitative majors that UW is known for.
And she’s already AP’ed out of a bunch of freshman-level classes that may not challenge her.
BTW, in her case, given what we know, I’m not too worried about her not meeting the major requirements (outside of CS, which is very tough to enter at UW).
I spoke about the UW from experience, it’s my Alma mater, and my nephew graduated from there 2 years ago (comp sci). It was good for him but we’re not sure about my kid. Part of why we think the UW is not a great choice for her is that it’s too close to home and with too many local kids. It hasn’t been taken out of consideration completely, but there’s no swim team, so it’s pretty low on the list right now.
But I am getting reassured here. There aren’t many to talk to in the parents of her friends here - she doesn’t have many peers at school. The boarding school thing definitely shook her (and our) confidence.
If she’s willing to look on the East Coast and has competitive times (and it sounds like that’s the case here with interest from Swarthmore and Bowdoin) it opens up a plethora of options. Pretty much all the NESCACs could be in play. If the coaches at those schools give her their full support, meaning they’re willing to use one of their slots on her, I can’t imagine that anything aside from a serious disciplinary issue would keep her out. Her academics are stellar. In most cases when a kid is rejected with a coach’s support it’s because they’re just not academically strong enough.
The irony is that the coach may not be willing to support her because he or she figures her academic are strong enough to carry her, opening up the possibility of using that slot on a weaker student.
One question I would have is whether her times are competitive enough to be attractive to Ivy coaches. I’m guessing not, or that she’s not interested in the rigors of a D1 program, since you’ve said she’d be a DIII swimmer. You may want to spend some time on the CC athletic recruits forum to get advice on the recruiting process.
If she does come out for a recruiting visit you might want to add in some visits to similar schools. For instance, if she’s going to Bowdoin she could also swing by Bates (about a half hour from Bowdoin) and Colby (only a bit further).
Remember one thing about your original question. Reach schools for your daughter would include those that reject more than half of those with “perfect” stats. That would include most of the Top 20 schools.
Make sure she puts in the time junior year to make an ED/EA/RD plan. Spend time visiting schools to see if one school rises to the top. If so, she can apply SCEA or ED and any EA applications allowable with her top choice. Weave passion about her intended major into her essays, EC descriptions and other prompts. Low admission statistics do not really matter, only her preferences and outcomes matter to your family. Just prepare your daughter to dust herself off and keep writing if she is not satisfied with her early application results.
CMU (she sounds like a personality fit here), MIT, Hopkins, RPI are all Div III swim teams. Most Div I schools and all Ivys will have club teams with the same opportunities to socialize as she likely did on her HS and club teams. They often swim 4x/week, have some home and away meets during the year and go to the national club swim championship at Georgia Tech each April for a fun weekend before finals. Club team participation leaves time for an on campus research job and other clubs or community service. Our sophomore manages to balance club swimming, a 10 hour/week research job, paid university tutoring, inner city tutor program and is a sorority member. She would not have wanted to give up everything else to swim competitively.
Three pages in and I don’t see any info regarding what she wants to study. Did I miss it?
I agree with your assessment that any school with an admission rate less than 20% should be considered a reach. With her stats, there are really no matches, just “reaches” based on their acceptance rates and safeties. I’d recommend looking at some OOS public schools known for giving great merit aid. The public schools will be less concerned with yield protection and they’ll offer a wide range of majors.
Pitt and UofSC were two OOS schools that D applied to. Her SATs are lower than your daughter’s, but she was accepted to both (no merit for Pitt, in-state tuition for UofSC). Pitt is very focused on test scores for their merit aid awards, so it may be a great option for her. They also offer rolling admissions, so you could apply as early as August and have a response before the EA deadlines at a lot of other schools.