How do you find a good topic to work on for Intel ISEF?

<p>Alright, this question has been bothering me...I mean I really doubt all the finalists did the work all by themselves. I'm sure they had parental support, teacher advices and support, materials support, etc. </p>

<p>I tried looking around for topics to do in physics, but a lot proved complicated for a simple high schooler to attempt (I wanted to research proton decay). I didn't want to do simple projects like analyze beer foam color or something simple like that.</p>

<p>I was wondering whether the school is an important factor into ISEF topics...I tried asking my school's chair of department head for help and suggestions, but he was a biology major. So I thought of doing biology (I was pretty much interested in any field of science back then).</p>

<p>But it didn't work out right. I didn't like the dept head; he seemed potentially verbally abusive and i felt as thought I wasn't doing anything constructive. He instructed me on how to do my project, which I didn't want. I wanted to theoretically understand my goal and do things myself.</p>

<p>All the other teachers I asked around for help weren't interested because they weren't quite sure what to do...no one from out school's ever been to a science fair.</p>

<p>My parents were clueless because they didn't have the solid education.
So I gave up trying to find a topic...</p>

<p>Looking back, the whole process seemed like an endless headache...how did the ISEF winners do it? I'm really curious as to what these ISEF semifinalists and finalists did to place so well in science fairs...</p>

<p>The reason why I’m asking on the MIT forum is because a lot of MIT admits and prospectives end up doing some sort of science fair projects and ISEF / ITS. So please, supermoderators, don’t move this thread away.</p>

<p>I’d say that you’re right. Most of the participants in science fairs that I’ve come across ‘did most of the work themselves’, but were basically number-crunching for the idea given by their mentors. You can tell: these are usually experimental projects, or involved some expensive apparatus that was housed in a university/lab.</p>

<p>So surely, not all have done the work solely by themselves.</p>

<p>But:</p>

<p>1 - Now, I’m a purist who prefers to do the theoretical work largely by myself, but I think that there’s nothing wrong with number-crunching. Research is a collaboration after all. Many of the best researchers might not have gone as far without their mentors: Bhargava, for instance, investigated Gauss’s composition law on recommendation by his mentor - who? Wiles. The late Halmos wrote an amusing account of his impression that a member of the faculty in his school came up with the idea where his doctoral advisees are told to work on cases n=2, n=3, n=4… of the same problem, like a PhD factory, until one of his students, a brilliant guy, got sick of the whole thing and decided to solve the generalized problem once and for all.</p>

<p>2 - It is a competition after all. So long as someone can demonstrate understanding of the topic, display rigor and consistency in the results, present findings in a succinct manner (and in the case of team submissions, show teamwork), produce a clear poster, he or she would already have scored well, because that’s how the competition is weighed. Difficulty of topic and ingenuity of ideas are of course, what we associate with the romantic idea of “research” - but unfortunately, you’re not going win even if you solved a century-old problem, submitted a preprint to arXiv, and refused to talk about it.</p>

<p>Moreover, you can’t write response papers, rank reports by citations etc. in a fair, so really, one should by no means expect it to be a perfect model.</p>

<p>If you had asked earlier, I would have suggested that you: try to make the best of what you have, start simple with what you’re told to do, then once you’re done, try to expand/deepen (the biology project); or stick true to your cause if you were really passionate about it (on proton decay)*.</p>

<p>Lastly, I know at least one person who did win the ISEF grand prize in Physics behind the backs of his high school teachers, because he also had radiation issues to account for. And I swear, he did everything from scratch at home… high voltage push-pull amplifier, ionization gauges, collecting hydrogen etc. (I don’t think many finalists have spent their summers visiting hospitals in the name of physics, trying to salvage oil diffusion pumps. But we’ve moved away from that.) The same person went on to put together a nuclear reactor with his friend in his dorm, a rather famous story (any UChic prefrosh here?).</p>

<p>Whatever the case, stomach your resentment, and I’m sure you’ll have a much better time ahead of you in Duke. And we might one day come across each other in a physics conference… who knows.</p>

<p><em>Postscript: I’m not accusing you of not being “passionate enough”, I say this because I myself wasn’t supported by my school for a similar project - they cited problems with radiation issues (which I had a 25 page appendix on mitigating). However, I did carry on with my project in my friend’s house, and while I was working on this project that was nearly doomed to fail, I was lucky to find a way to apply real analysis to an independent particle physics problem: it isn’t too complicated at all. I even heard that someone did a project on string topology a few years before I was in high school… kudos to him, that’s truly complicated. Also, I did do a project which began with beer foam *lol</em>, more exactly, two-phase flow modeling. The equations of motion for beer foaming are extremely complicated - it is also very difficult to approach the problem where the “beer” in midair pushes air into the cup of beer as you’re pouring it (entrainment flow). I don’t think it’s a good topic - but it’s fun.</p>

<p>How about a kid who presented original research at a professional scientific conference?</p>

<p>My daughter did her own “kitchen table” experiments when she was in high school. She entered the county science fair two years in a row, qualified for state, but never made it to state (the county fair always qualified more kids than there were places for at state, so going forward was based on a lottery system). After the second year, she decided to expand her first research project and carried out a continuation study. She submitted that as a proposal for a scientific conference, with her name as first author, and it was accepted. She was the only high-school student at the conference, and she had a blast.</p>

<p>To the OP: I sort of understand where you’re coming from, because she also was interested in physics (and is now a physics major at MIT), but never managed to find a mentor in a physics lab where she could undertake some research. There was some frustration. But on the other hand, what she ended up doing was all her own. She did an environmental project.</p>

<p>Here’s how it developed. Lake Tahoe is gradually losing its clarity, and scientists and environmentalists are interested in finding out why. One day we were hiking up from the lake, and she looked down the side of the mountain and noticed that a small stream we had followed appeared to flow down alongside a local golf course before descending (presumably to empty into the lake). She wondered if the fertilizer used on the golf course ended up in the lake. That was the initial question.</p>

<p>She ended up mapping the entire stream from the mouth to the source, thousands of feet higher, using a GPS. The local water agency loaned her equipment to test the water, and then she set up measuring stations at intervals along the stream and planned to come and test the water at each interval over a period of a year (through each season). There was also a lot of secondary literature about golf courses and water purity, and there was enough debate over the issue to make it interesting. She found that this stream originated as a spring, so she had very pure water at the source to use in comparison.</p>

<p>For her continuation study, she shared her data with scientists at the Desert Research Institute in Reno, and they became interested in this particular stream. They had been running measurements just near the mouth of the stream as it entered the lake, but no one had ever mapped this little stream, and so her measurements from higher up were of interest. Once she shared her data, a couple of scientists in Reno provided her with some good comparative data for other local streams in other conditions, including some great long-range data. And then the project became more and more interesting.</p>

<p>She did have some major help from family members, because we drove her up to Lake Tahoe, back and forth. This took one full weekend per month. </p>

<p>I guess the upshot is this. If you’re really interested in research, you can undertake almost any question and it can develop into something. It’s true that she never made it to ISEF, but…personally, I think making it into a scientific conference is actually a bit more impressive. And she learned from the experience that she does enjoy research. Although now she’s all about physics.</p>

<p>I only personally know one person who went to ISEF, and I am 100% sure that she did all of her project, from beginning to the very end, all by herself. In fact, she has never even met her mentor face-to-face; they only corresponded via emails. In addition, her parents are not very knowledgeable on the subject she was studying (in fact, I do not even think that many people in the world would be). Like CalAlum, her parents had to drive her often to the different places and were very supportive.</p>

<p>With that said, our high school (large, not competitive public) does have a good science research program that can prepare students to conduct their own research studies. We begin brainstorming ideas for research projects starting as early as freshman year, and are taught how and where to find journal articles, and we do receive help from teachers at school on how to begin contacting mentors, etc.</p>

<p>Ashwin, this is a good discussion you have started. </p>

<p>It is hard to imagine that most of those ideas are original.</p>

try intelliprep1.com … worked so well for me :slight_smile: