<p>I have been on this forum for a while now. It is very clear test scores alone do not define a top student. Yet a decent set of test score seems necessary to make a student as least qualified for top schools. I think our DS is a very good student. While it is relatively easy to pick the super reach, it is really hard to find safety for him, especially the financial safety.</p>
<p>I have seen a couple people suggesting to building a school list from bottom up. Just how do you do that for a "very good" yet not super "top" student? </p>
<p>The more I think about this, the more I felt so blessed about DD's situation. At the mean time, I start to have that "feeling" again about DS's application. </p>
<p>Realy do not want to start drinking again but... ...</p>
<p>First, you identify what he wants in a school (big/ small, specific major, specific extracurricular activity, etc). Then you try to find schools like that where his stats put him in the top quarter. If you are looking for merit, I would suggest you go to the financial aid forum and look for threads about which colleges give a lot of merit $. I used to be able to look it up easily on the US news site but they changed the format this year. Oh, and I always recommend putting down 2 safeties. Each of my kid has had a college lose his/ her application! If you want scholarship $, you may want to find more than 2 schools that give a lot of merit aid depending on how necessary it is for your family.</p>
<p>First, quit calling it a “safety”. Sounds as exciting as discussing insurance policies. Call the Asteroid Plan. What if a giant Asteroid came from Outer Space, landed on the house, and obliterated the whole family (even the budgy), leaving DS with only his high school diploma and his wits and can - do attitude? Well, clearly, he would need a happy place to be so he could pursue an education and get his life centered again.</p>
<p>So, an Asteroid Plan is a place where a kid could be HAPPY. It might have snowboarding near by – or the beach – or lots of pretty girls (Lewis and Clark college is 58% female. So is Pacific University). It might have fantastic pizza or a tremendous band scene. So start there and look around for a school that has reasonable academics (not brutal academics. Solid academics). </p>
<p>I can’t express what a difference it makes to have a solid Asteroid Plan. The kid now KNOWS there is a spot that is just dandy for him and where he has a strong chance of attending (much better than throwing together a sloppy app to a “Safety” – now the kid might go to this place and some care will show!). This Asteroid Plan takes the sting out of the rest of the process. Sure, apply to Spectacular U. Could work out. Just don’t make Armpit U his safety – that way lies bitterness for sure. </p>
<p>So, start with the question: If you were alone in the world, what would you want to be around to help you cope? Good luck!</p>
<p>First, find a “True Safety”. This is a school that:</p>
<p>1) Has to admit the applicant based on his/her stats. In other words, an in-state public college, community college, or university that is open admission, or that has clearly stated guaranteed admission categories at least one of which the applicant fits in.</p>
<p>2) The applicant and his/her family can pay for without any aid other than federally determined aid.</p>
<p>3) Offers the program the applicant is interested in, or if a community college, offers the first two years of that program with an articulation agreement that guarantees admission to a 4 year college or university.</p>
<p>4) The applicant is willing to attend if all else fails.</p>
<p>Once this True Safety is identified, the applicant should apply as early as possible so that he/she can get in line for any honors programs, merit scholarships, early-bird-admissions-specials, etc. With the True Safety in the bag, the applicant can then devote his/her energy to finding programs that are better fits.</p>
<p>If a True Safety cannot be identified, then the applicant should be required to develop a different kind of back-up plan. Getting a job, enlisting in the Marines, taking a gap year all can be acceptable back-up plans. Just don’t let your kid not have one.</p>
<p>I don’t think you have to find a school that is legally required to admit your kid (“has to admit the applicant”), but you need to find a school where not only is the applicant well in the top 25% of test scores, but also where the acceptance rate is relatively high – say significantly above 50%. As happymom suggests, it would be best if this school also has a non-binding early action or rolling admissions plan.</p>
<p>In addition, all those other criteria must be met: financially affordable, happy to attend, and all the rest.</p>
<p>Often, there is no school that “has to admit the applicant” except for open-admission community colleges – which few really top students would consider realistic safety schools.</p>
<p>I live in the same state as happymomof1, and many of our very best students use our flagship state university as their safety. But that university isn’t required to admit anyone.</p>
<p>Hey HoppingLass–You don’t need an “Asteroid Plan,” just think Hurricane Katrina where many students had to evac their home, and find other colleges not under water. You are spot on, as one never know which way the wind will blow.</p>
<p>When my son was looking at colleges he found one that had a 99% acceptance rate. (I’m not going to name names as I’m sure to offend someone, somewhere. ) We had a whole routine going that he and his dog could apply together.</p>
<p>Seriously, it’s a long, long time from December to April. If you want to get any sleep you need to put some energy into this project. My test: a true safety/surebet is a school that doesn’t give the student (and his/her parents) a queasy feeling.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I like the idea of grouping schools by personality and ambience. Start with the favorite then find others that are less selective but have similar characteristics, like size, location, politics, arts focus etc. </p></li>
<li><p>Don’t expect to get everything on your wish list. Sometimes schools are less selective because of a “fatal flaw” – in the eye of the beholder, that is. Some examples could be location – in the middle of a cornfield or near an urban jungle, gender imbalance or all one, a particularly strong program within an otherwise lackluster reputation.</p></li>
<li><p>Plan to spend more time learning to love your safeties than being wowed by your reaches. You may have to visit several just to find one that passes muster. Visits are often influential. Being able to walk around the campus and to interact with kids just like you can upgrade Armpit U to not so bad. [Hoppinglass, see how quickly I appropriated your phrase. ]</p></li>
<li><p>If your State U works as a safety, good for you! But don’t assume that it will and if it doesn’t keep looking. For example if all your matches and reaches are small LACs, don’t use your mega U as your backup, even if it has a profoundly good honors program. Same goes for EA and rolling admissions – they only qualify if they’re schools you want to attend. Considering a school a safety just because you can get in is bound to lead to anxiety.</p></li>
<li><p>Financial safeties make the whole process into a rubic cube. Tough, tough, tough especially now when the financial landscape is undergoing seismic shifts. Take the advice in point 3 and them some. Research and visit extensively.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Don’t ignore the junk mail. Some of those schools you’ve never heard of are worth looking into. That’s how we discovered two of Son’s safety prospects. We’re actually excited to go look at them in June.</p>
<p>Dad II, If your S is fairly focused on a specific major, approaching the search the the POV of “which schools have the best programs for what I want?” may yield some interesting results. </p>
<p>Our in-state flagship is very well-regarded in the two fields in which S planned to major, plus he had spent considerable time there doing research w/a prof in one of said departments. The advisor in that dept. was incredible and was able to get accelerated placement for students, even if different schools within the university. He also knew many students from his very competitive HS program with stellar stats (think HPYMS admits) who took the merit $$ and were quite happy. The confluence of these things led him to feeling quite comfortable should he have decided to attend his flagship.</p>
<p>He also spent some significant time looking at LACs which were strong in his major and sent lots of folks in his major to grad school. Spent LOTS of time talking to profs, students who were currently there, grad students and academic advisors. The ground-level knowledge was crucial for his search. Much of this was done online.</p>
<p>S’s stats placed him well above 75th%tile everywhere he applied. That was no guarantee of anything. He focused on fit and quality of program.</p>
<p>I’m in a similar situation with S2. My plan is to look for schools where his SATs are, at least, in the 75th percentile of admitted students and the school has a 50%+ acceptance rate. That statistical combo generates, (I hope), a list of “pretty safe” locations. </p>
<p>The result is primarily big publics, but not exclusively. Some schools are obviously safer than others; when we go through the list together, we highlight Honors Programs and look at the fin aid situation, (oh, and try and guess if there are pretty girls).</p>
<p>Obviously it’s not foolproof but it’s a starting point. </p>
<p>Don’t forget that early action, priority applications and rolling admissions are the safest safeties. mathson knew by Thanksgiving that he was accepted at RPI. I know lots of top students who apply early to U. of Michigan.</p>
<p>I like the list in post #5, except I would omit the words “if all else fails.” What you really want in a safety is a school that the student would be willing to attend, period. Try not to think of it as a fallback or safety net, but just as one end of the spectrum of selectivity in your list of schools. It may help if you also emphasize pluses that the safety school has that the more selective ones don’t (i.e., for a lot of top students, this would be the possibility of significant merit aid, the likelihood of being a top student there, or of getting into an honors program).</p>
<p>S’s safety was no safety for a lot of people. However, he had three schools where his stats were well above the 75% and where many kids from his HS had been accepted who hadn’t taken nearly the level of classes he had. One of those remained on his list even amid the higher reaches acceptances, right down to the final two! He truly could see himself happy there. </p>
<p>I don’t like the word safety and our school doesn’t use this term at all. I think the best mindset for a safety is to consider it a “Likely” and know your kid will be happy there even if it is the only school to accept him/her.</p>
<p>My kids were just on the edge of top studentdom, and neither had any particular problem finding safeties . . . or devising a strategy that made the true safeties irrelevant.</p>
<p>– As both admissions and financial safeties, in-state public institutions. The state flagship would have worked fine, except neither was interested in it. However, there are a number of others in this state, large and small, many with attractive honors programs and merit scholarship possibilities, as well as rolling admissions.</p>
<p>– They liked mid-size urban research universities. Boston University, Tulane, USC, George Washington all would have worked as safeties, pretty much – fairly predictable admissions and merit scholarships above a certain stats level. Other possibilities: Miami, CMU (non-engineering/computer), Case Western, even Emory or Rice (though that starts getting a lot less safe). Minnesota, Washington.</p>
<p>– If they had been willing to consider Catholic universities, it would have opened up a raft of other possibilities.</p>
<p>– For those who want rural LACs, there are myriad excellent ones outside the “top 20” (or whatever) that are effective safeties for strong students.</p>
<p>What my older kid did was get into one of her top choices EA, which basically cut all the true safeties out of her thinking. My second kid put in a very early rolling-admissions application to an excellent out-of-state public university, which admitted him in early December with a great merit scholarship offer. Neither of these would have qualified as anyone’s “safety” (except the public for equivalent in-state students), but they became perfect safeties for my kids because they would have been completely enthusiastic about going there.</p>
<p>I don’t like the word safety either- as it isn’t accurate.
A school that is a good fit- and has a good percentage of qualified students accepted- could meet that criteria- but then if the student doesn’t truly seem interested, the school could deny, in lieu of accepting students who would actually attend.</p>
<p>My oldest chose mostly schools where she was well within the academic boundaries of the student body and which we could afford with minimal financial aid. ( roughly the cost of our EFC)</p>
<p>She had attended a private prep school that didn’t rank & I truly did not have any idea of her class standing- although she had very strong recommendations and ECs</p>
<p>She was accepted to all- took a gap year and added a top LAC to her choices that was a reach academically & financially ( but did meet 100% need if accepted). Now as the school has halved their admittance rate since she attended, I can’t predict if I would have had her apply if she was doing so now.</p>
<p>Her sister had decent grades, in a competitive public school, where her peers were some of the most accomplished kids in the state. One of her best friends for example, received large scholarship to Georgetown. However, she didn’t have offers of merit awards and our EFC is larger than when her sister was at home, so she is going to attend a good instate university.</p>
<p>Schools that are possibilities, will have larger admittance %s, than schools that are reaches- but any school on your list should be a decent choice, because otherwise, what is the point?</p>
<p>just a caveat, the >75% SAT rule doesn’t work for the most selective schools (like, less than 30% acceptance rate), only for the schools which are not quite as crazy selective. obviously, Yale isn’t a safety for anyone, but you still have to keep in mind the acceptance rates when looking at safeties.</p>
<p>I second what was said about applying EA or rolling to your safety. that way you don’t have to worry about being shut out when you’re applying to the really tough ones.</p>
]</p></li>