How does the middle class pay for college

Paying for College
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<p>You can’t get a full ride without getting in to the school first. Being poor is not enough. </p>

<p>Your children do NOT have the same challenges to get a good education. They have parents who are concerned about and involved in their education. That’s not necessarily going to be true for the majority of kids at your children’s schools. How many other parents of your son’s classmates are teaching their children algebra, or are thinking about preparing for the SAT? If your son continues to be a strong student, he’ll be in the top 4% of his graduating class and will qualify for UC’s Eligible in the Local Context (ELC) program, with guaranteed admission to participating UC campuses and a strong shot at the other campuses. </p>

<p>Texas Mom’s post about strategic applications–applying to schools where your stats put you at the top of the applicant pool, the better to get lots of merit aid–are really good reading.</p>

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<p>Ok, I’m very confused here. You make over twice the median income in California, and claim that you can barely make it. That usually implies that you live in an expensive district. Expensive areas usually mean a good educational system. So, if you are living in such an expensive area, then why are you in such a poor school district? I am just very confused as an outsider, even as an outsider who used to live in Cali.</p>

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<p>romanigypsyeyes, it’s entirely possible in California to live in a home worth in excess of $1 million, and be zoned for a Title I school.</p>

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<p>“That means my kids have the same challenges to get a good education as the other low income kids in school, yet the kid right next to them may get a free ride to an Ivie or even a UC.”</p>

<p>It’s ridiculous to think that your kids have the same challenges as their low income classmates.</p>

<p>Do your kids lack parents who have high school educations?</p>

<p>Do your kids have parents who are drug addicts or in prison? </p>

<p>Do your kids have parents who are illiterate and have never stepped foot on a college campus?</p>

<p>Do your kids have to stay inside their house in the evening because of concern about being shot by gangs?</p>

<p>Have your kids had to move from place to place – sometimes after being evicted-- because their parents/guardians can’t pay the rent?</p>

<p>Is the only meal that your kids know they can count on the free lunch at school?</p>

<p>Do your kids not know any professionals or college educated people except for their teachers?</p>

<p>Did your kids not get adequate prenatal and medical care? Do they get regular dental and eye exams?</p>

<p>Do you kids lack computer access and reading material at home?</p>

<p>Do your kids lack a quiet space at home where they can study?</p>

<p>Do your kids know who their father is?</p>

<p>Are your kids being raised by foster care or extended family because their parents are in prison or otherwise unavailable?</p>

<p>Were your kids born when their mom was under age 18?</p>

<p>Do your kids have parents who have never talked to their teachers or gone to things like teacher conferences or school open houses?</p>

<p>Do your kids live in a home where they are made fun if they aspire to become educated or if they read and use big words?</p>

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<p>Excellent post, Northstarmom. Thank you.</p>

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<p>Mysonsdad, our family has an AGI of around 60K. This means we did not/do not qualify for any thing like free/reduced lunch, or any other programs, Title 1, etc. My daughter attends our flagship state univ. She receives a reduced Pell grant at our income (with 2 in college) of about $1400/yr. She also has received some money in merit-based aid, but her FA package is mostly loans. Fortunately we have gotten though one year without having to borrow, but next year this is likely to change.</p>

<p>Her cost of attendance is the same as everyone else’s. If you look at it more objectively you can see that my family is really the “middle class”, but a family earning twice what we do will get them same bill. Do you think that $1400 need-based Pell grant my daughter gets is enviable? Do you think it makes it easier for us to pay for college than for you to do so on twice the income?</p>

<p>But here’s the real point, I work with kids at the local high school who are far poorer than us. A few of them have the grades, college prep classes, test scores to go to this same state univ., and their tuition will be free. From your perspective this is a rip-off for my family, but I will tell you that those kids are going to have it much tougher. Tuition is only one piece of the of the money outlay. These kids deserve to go to that school, but the other approximately $10K/yr they’ll need to go is coming from… where? Loans. With little else that advantages them, they will graduate in enormous debt. My daughter will likely have some debt, but nothing like that.</p>

<p>Aren’t those other kids SO lucky to be poor! :(</p>

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<p>NSM wrote an excellent post.</p>

<p>I’m reminded of some very poor children who were interviewed. Their parents had never had any jobs. These kids thought “getting a promotion” was when your welfare was increased. Poor babies. Their outlook on life is nothing like the outlook on life of a middle-class child.</p>

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<p>By having a kid with the stats to get in. Fortunately, if your child and a “poor” child have the same stats, they won’t choose the poor one over yours. They’ll choose the one who has one little quality which is better. </p>

<p>Gist? If your child has the stats, he’ll make it. Don’t blame those who are less fortunate than you.</p>

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<p>You cannot really predict your situation in 6 yrs when your son will start college. </p>

<p>It sounds like you can cash flow your D’s community college education.</p>

<p>Without knowing more, it is hard to create a savings plan for the S, but keep in mind that your S may receive some merit scholarships, may live at home for a year or two, and can work part time for extra money. It all adds up. My D works part time and has since she was 15 and a half. She receives a Pell Grant, a state grant for tuition, and pays for her books out of her earnings. I give her a small monthly allowance for extras. She attends an in state public. </p>

<p>Not Top 20, but impressive; she is majoring in Biology and has already been invited to work on a summer research project in 2010. Most kids do not go to Harvard or Yale. They go to their in state publics. The majority of my D’s high school peers attend in state publics.
Back to your S:
you might also look into sports or athletics so he can be attractive to coaches (track and field, swimming?) or play a somewhat unusual instrument (tenor saxophone, the oboe :-), french horn) or go for his Eagle Scout rank.<br>
Lots of kids have straight As. Most kids are not Eagle Scouts.</p>

<p>Anyway, you will find a way and you will learn a lot about the process here on this board which has been a lifesaver for me.</p>

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<p>“I’m reminded of some very poor children who were interviewed. Their parents had never had any jobs. These kids thought “getting a promotion” was when your welfare was increased.”</p>

<p>Is that a true story?</p>

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<p>The UCs have been mentioned as an option for the OP, but the COA at those schools is nearing $30K for students living on-campus, and they’re not exactly generous with grants/scholarships. OTOH, UC may be a great choice if there’s a campus near enough that the student can live at home. The CSUs remain affordable, but every CSU student I know is having major problems getting classes they need, and some are already fretting that it may take 5-6 years to get a 4-year degree.</p>

<p>OP: It took a while, but I managed to reconcile myself to the hard fact that college was going to hurt. Either there’s significant financial sacrifice; as others have mentioned, past (savings), current (spending cuts), and future (loans), or the student must accept a much less expensive school, which can be a bitter pill for a high-achieving, ambitious kid to swallow. The way it worked out for us, D is attending a private school which offered a much better aid package than UC, so it’s actually costing us less out-of-pocket. Which is not to say it’s easy. We’re doing all three – draining savings, cutting current spending, and taking loans. Wish I had a better answer for you, but I wanted to let you know you’re not alone.</p>

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<p>two points:

  1. send your kids to the college you could afford. With $130K/Y income, you should be able to have plenty choices. Of course, in 6 years when your 6th grader goes to college, most of the T20 will be at $80k/year.</p>

<p>2) I think it is much more difficult to get rich than to become poor. If you think the poor have it all, why not give up your $130K job and become a real poor person? Have you ever lived one day as a real poor person? </p>

<p>We are in a somewhat different situation than you. I just check on “Wikipedia”. Where our children goes to HS, “The median income for a household in the city was ~$160K/year, and the median income for a family was around $180K/yr. The per capita income for the city was around $100K/yr.” For a family of 4, even your $130K income still put you at the far bottom half. </p>

<p>One option for you is to spend every dime you have from now on, if you are a gamble man and believe your son is good enough to get into one of the HYPS. </p>

<p>Or, count your blessings and enjoy your good middle class life - at least over 70% of the country would love to be in your shoes. I recommend this one.</p>

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<p>Shrinkrap, it most likely IS a true story. I have lived in “mixed” socioeconomic areas all my life, but I had never been involved with the poorest among us in a truly hands-on way until I began working in financial aid at an urban state U. Now I get to see the true family picture … which, frankly, often stuns me. I don’t earn a lot, but it’s a fortune compared to many.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s useful to be attacking the OP. He asked a sincere question, and there are some helpful answers that can be given.</p>

<p>Acting superior because some of you are better savers is quite unnecessary. This guy may have talents that blow ours out of the water, yet he wouldn’t put our less-than-inadequate talents down. We have no idea about this man’s life. It sounds like his income is the result of 2-3 jobs (2 from him, and 1 from his wife). We have no idea how long they’ve been earning 6 figures. He may have only recently began working 2 jobs. His wife may have only recently returned to the workforce, so now they can really start savings.</p>

<p>Yes, he does misunderstand that the poor don’t have it easy when it comes to education. However, several have pointed out why that thinking isn’t true. </p>

<p>Instead of insulting him, give him some helpful suggestions. :)</p>

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<p>Shrinkrap…yes the story is true. I saw the interview on TV (it was on something like 60 Minutes or 20/20 or one of those shows). This was probably about 6 years ago. I can’t remember the topic of the interview - it was probably about careers or jobs or something. And some kids actually said things like, “My mom got a promotion.” or “my mom got a raise at her job” - and they were talking about increases in welfare. It stuck in my mind because one kid used the word “job” in reference to getting a raise. this poor kid had no idea that receiving welfare is not a job. That’s just an example of how these kids lives don’t expose them to the same things that middle-class kids get.</p>

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<p>momof2college kids - THANK YOU. I think a lot of people - including myself - refrain from posting - because so many others are so quick to criticize and judge. I sent the poster a couple PM’s with ideas - for that very reason. Unfortunately, many of the new posters - and the poster is one of them - have not learned yet how fast some posters like to judge and preach. I recall the time a group of us at work adopted a family for Christmas - before we took the gifts over - the charity cautioned us about judging them, as every situation is unique, and you have no idea what’s going on in that person’s life. </p>

<p>Maybe some should take that some approach - and instead try to offer some advice and help - rather than attack, judge and preach. </p>

<p>MomFromTexas stepped out with a great post on the way she used to finance her kids education - trying to share her idea and success - and posters attacked her from every side. Those kind of attacks keep many from sharing their success stories, or questions - and it’s too bad. This should be a forum where folks can share and not worry about being ridiculed in the process for asking a question or sharing an idea.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>I just know that in my own family, my H came from a family that had NO IDEA of how to save. I came from a family that has an Italian dad who’s still looking for that 5 cent loaf of bread. (I didn’t know what fresh bread tasted like until I was older, because our bread was always “day old” bread.) When I met my H, he had no idea what a 401k or anything else was - even though he had been professionally employed for a few years. </p>

<p>As I mentioned in an earlier post, some couples find it difficult to save because one spouse doesn’t share the thrifty spirit of the other. What’s a person to do? Divorce? Now that’s no solution for saving money! LOL ;)</p>

<p>So, when the many, many people come on this forum with nice incomes and are concerned about how they will pay for college, just give them some helpful ideas. :)</p>

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<p>MomFromTexas stepped out with a great post on the way she used to finance her kids education - trying to share her idea and success - and posters attacked her from every side. Those kind of attacks keep many from sharing their success stories, or questions - and it’s too bad.</p>

<p>I can relate to that. My kids had the stats to go to top 20 schools (if accepted. LOL), but they chose their flagship state with great scholarships. I’ve gotten criticized many times for that, even though my kids are getting a great education and having a great time. </p>

<p>It was a family decision. One son wants to go to med school, the other either wants to go to law school or grad school. We will help pay for that because of the savings from undergrad. If we had spent their education money on undergrad, we wouldn’t be able to help them with their ultimate goals.</p>

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<p>Well NSM and Dad II:
Thanks for the advice. I ask a question and state a fact and now all of a sudden I realize that I have been wrong the whole time. </p>

<p>I was hoping for suggestions instead some people want to focus in on what I said about the poor getting the free rides. Yes they have to work for it. Okay fine…now do you have anything to say about how the middle class pays for college. The UC’s in my state want me to pay between $28,000-$35,000 a year. Oh I know, I am so rich that it should be no problem.</p>

<p>BTW, DadII and NSM, do you even know anyone who is poor? NSM it sounds like you might. I teach them everyday. The school I teach at is over 60% free and reduced lunch. I fill out their EOP forms and write their letters of recommendations to colleges. I have gone to their houses to collect their homework, I have gone to their houses to talk to their parents about how their kid can do better in school. </p>

<p>And NSM, I like your question about the “not going outside because of fear of being shot at in a drive-by.” Do you know what it is like to run away from a gun fight with your 9 year old son? There have been three people shot on the three streets I have lived on in my area. In the past 10 years, three of my students have been brutally killed. The median income in my community is about $65,000. Oh look I make more than twice that. WOW I AM RICH!!! The reason it is $65,000 is because about half our population doesn’t work. Investers buy houses and rent them out to people who get government housing vouchers. Two doors down from me the drug selling ex-con just got evicted. Like I said on another post, a house in Compton sells for $300,000. On $130,000/year that means that I would have to stretch to afford Compton!!! </p>

<p>I get it…the poor have it tough…Now what does the middle class do? You don’t even have to answer, I have recieved enough info from other posters on this thread. </p>

<p>This wasn’t supposed to be a thread about class warfare. If a poor person qualifies and get accepted to HYPS, they can go for free. That is a fact. I didn’t know some schools also gave breaks to families that made more. At least a few people want to offer advice. </p>

<p>And Kansasmom, and Ahappyaccident, thank you so much for the info.</p>

<p>I am new on this board but one thing I am quickly learning is that when you ask a question, so many people want to quickly jump on and insult you. I kind of thought that we, as parents are all in this together, oh well, I guess I am wrong.</p>

<p>Okay DadII, NSM, et al…attack!!</p>

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<p>MSD, sorry if you feel like I am attacking you. I read my post again and did not see how could you take that as attacking. </p>

<p>Basically, all I said was that you doing better than most of the people and you have a lot of choices. As many other posters pointed out, at $130K, you are much better off than a true middle class family.</p>

<p>Since I have no idea nor have any desire to know your detailed financial situation, I can’t commend on how will you pay for your kids’ education.</p>

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<p>I wrote this…Acting superior because some of you are better savers is quite unnecessary. This guy may have talents that blow ours out of the water, yet he wouldn’t put our less-than-inadequate talents down.</p>

<p>Then the OP wrote this… * I teach them everyday. The school I teach at is over 60% free and reduced lunch. I fill out their EOP forms and write their letters of recommendations to colleges. I have gone to their houses to collect their homework, I have gone to their houses to talk to their parents about how their kid can do better in school.
*</p>

<p>Sounds to me that he does have talents that blow most of ours out of the water.</p>

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<p>Mysonsdad… you have a bright son. Encourage him as much as you can (without stressing him out - lol ). With top scores, he’ll likely merit some great scholarships. However, don’t focus only on Top 20 schools. Very, very successful people come from many good schools. :slight_smile: If you can’t move him to a private school (I suggested moving him to a Catholic school earlier), then “co-teach” him at home to make sure he’s getting what he needs.</p>

<p>Also, keep in mind, that undergrad choice is not nearly as important as grad school choice. So, if your child ends up at UCSB or UCSD (or wherever) because that’s what you can afford, then if he does well, he’ll still get into law school, or med school, or whatever. :)</p>