Hey guys, i’m a current sophomore in community college out of state. Since I would be transferring in as a Junior, will I be ineligible to do the BBA in Finance at Goizueta? It says you must spend one academic year at Emory before you can enroll at Goizueta - that means I would only be at Goizueta my senior year. Is this possible?
@msport : You probably would not graduate in 4 years attempting to complete that. You would have to stay an extra year I am sure. I am pretty sure it would be really hard to fit in all the requirements. What you could do, is take as many of the finance cores as a junior, but this assumes they take your credits (which I hope are BBA pre-reqs) from the college you come from. It would be tough. I would plan for a strong econ. major (with upper level math) as a back up if you are desperate to not have another year. It is not vital to have a business degree to access certain jobs. Showing off quantitative skills and getting internships should give you access to consulting and some finance positions. This can be done through math, econ (where you could focus on financial econ. if you want), QSS, w/e.
@bernie12 thanks for the solid reply.
I’m gunning for a job an investment banking and to really maximize my potential to break in I think it’d be necessary to get into Goizueta - I can do Econ at UVA (in state guaranteed for me).
That being said, i’m willing to extend my studies by one year. My question is mostly whether that will be allowed at Emory or not. I’ll just email admissions but was hoping there might be someone who has experience doing this.
@msport
“I’m gunning for a job an investment banking and to really maximize my potential to break in I think it’d be necessary to get into Goizueta”
Yeah that is just wrong. Seems most of the people who went on to do finance jobs from the BBA program were double majoring in math or CS. I am betting the latter gave them the greatest advantage, though GBS’s career center could have helped some, but there are many others who managed without GBS. I would basically advise you to go to UVA if that is your logic.
A 5th year is allowed. I had a friend who did it because he came in as a junior. He completed some key classes (I think calculus 2, he was also pre-finance and knew that a better quantitative background. If you choose a major that focuses on that, take some key econ. courses, you would be fine. I think getting into these elite business programs for finance (minus like Wharton) is over-rated. Don’t contribute to that misconception. The schools sending the most folks to finance and especially Wall Street are not limited to Wharton. Most are schools with no UG business program. You can want to go for the resources and the professors and maybe the culture of GBS, but do not feel as if it actually maximizes access. If it sends more people to it, it is mostly because most people at Emory who aim for it also have the idea that it is the ideal path (so like most business programs, it functions as sort of a default major). But even then, it looks like GBS is more successful with sending folks to good consulting positions. If you want to “gun” for finance, choose something relevant (does not have to be a finance major. Again, your access to good firms will increase with a more rigorous quantitative background. In addition, other extremely lucrative fields can open up) and be the best you can be at it Often it is the top students landing those finance jobs. That won’t be easy at GBS especially if you must take on a heavier than normal courseload in one of the two challenging primary area depths. You are surrounded by other gunners who are seasoned when it comes to the Emory environment and coursework.
Unless there is something you really like about GBS, go to UVA (they are basically the same caliber school overall and I am guessing UVA may be substantially cheaper). Pragmatic reasons and “gunning” for that are not good enough reasons to put yourself through such a transition (seriously, I have seen the econ. department reject economics credits from regular public schools for no apparent reason. Needless to say, that exacerbates things further). Try to figure out if there are deeper reasons for your affinity to GBS I would say.
Thanks for the extra words. GBS offers a valuation class, an investment banking class, an advanced corporate finance class, and some other awesome classes NOT offered for UVA Econ students. Those classes are vital because they are 100% relevant to investment banking and i’d rather learn them in the classroom setting first before paying for technical prep guides online, they don’t explain the concepts as well.
Also - I think your understanding of how much of an advantage these “elite business schools” play is quite diluted. NYU Stern, UVA McIntire(i can’t get into), UMich-Ross, UNC-KF, Northwestern, Wharton, HYPS, etc. are all TARGET schools that bulge bracket firms heavily recruit at. Students in the business schools at these universities have a huge advantage over the econ students because they are looked at first and more favorably - as well as usually having exclusive career centers and networking events.
Regarding math/cs: what you say is only true for the most quantitative roles in an investment bank. I specifically want to work in leveraged finance or mergers and acquisitions - these are the two most competitive groups because they have the best exit opportunities into private equity, the huge majority of people in these roles are pure finance/economics and having CS/Math on the side isn’t gonna be what makes you more attractive than your competition (these roles are accounting/valuation/modeling heavy - not really that quantitative). It’s gonna be what you’ve already got on your resume and which school you come from(yes, non-targets can break in with 200% more effort via networking). Emory is also a school with HEAVY bulge bracket recruiting and IMO should be considered a target as well. A simple linkedin alumni search of the class of 2016/2017 is literally lined with investment banking analysts to the level that UVA McIntire/UM-Ross/Stern are. It’s pretty crazy.
The roles you speak of that prefer quanty backgrounds are research roles, strat roles, sales and trading roles, and quantitative finance roles - which all have a presence in the front office of an investment bank but is not what I am going for.
Anyways, at the end of the day, Emory GBS > UVA Econ and this honestly cannot be disputed. I’ve crushed all my economics and accounting courses with A’s and if Emory declined them I would be happy to take placement tests (read that this is the case with transferring accounting/econ courses). Also, i’m coming from one of the nation’s top community colleges, this doesn’t really mean anything besides the fact that our coursework is as close as it gets to true university settings/standards - i mention this because my school is probably on the less likely side to have credits rejected.
To address your last question, what I really like about GBS is the curriculum and network, as well as the standards that Emory sets - everyone knows that Emory students have a LOT of core classes they must complete other colleges don’t require and I respect that Emory wants well rounded and cultured students. I don’t have any story about the location or having legacy but I think that is a fine reason to want to go to GBS. I’m literally willing to do anything that will increase my chances of breaking into banking out of undergrad.
I’m applying to UMich Econ, UNC Econ, UVA Econ, Emory, NYU Econ, and Cornell Econ. My gpa is at the lower end (3.5-3.7) and therefore disqualifies my competitiveness as a transfer applicant for the business schools at these universities - it’s really attractive to me that Emory gives transfers a strong opportunity.
I appreciate you being realistic with me about what to expect at Emory, but I assure you i’m willing to place all bets on myself - i’ll do what it takes to be a top performer because that is all i’m focused on at this point in my life :-).
Emory is NOT a target (maybe a semi-target?) school though which is what I am trying to say (being a target school for some companies seems to correlate with region with the northeast and the upper midwest having a notable advantage). Most of those other schools have very high SATs (which finance firms, especially on Wall Street are known for targeting) in their b-schools, substantially higher than Emory’s (all have SAT means 1400+, Emory has not hit that since the last I checked. Perhaps the class of 2021, when it enters will hit this target, but this is only because the new SAT seems to be scored such that the high 1300s and 1400s are more accessible to high achieving students than on the old). The fact still stands that those at an elite school DO NOT need to major in finance. Top performing students at elite schools with more quantitative econ. courses or math majors still get access. Given this, I am not that convinced that a b-school curriculum offers too much of an advantage alone (regardless of what major you choose, you certainly need to intern to enhance access. That is likely more important than very specific coursework). Now I’ll admit that the network and career center of GBS could certainly ease the interview process, but I think how special the curriculum is overall is over-rated at most business schools (don’t involve NYU in a conversation…seriously. We know why it is a target). You would also want to gain access to certain classes (perhaps the ones you mention) or opps that let you get directly involved in overseeing finances of some entity (I think Emory has this investment club).
Will you have time for that? That is the question, because your schedule will be full of course work. Will it leave time to access some of the more hands on classes. You have to think about how you’ll go about that if you decide to do that. Also, does UVA offer Arts and Letters students access to Business classes (even if a limited amount like GBS, which I think allows up to 4)? If you go aiming for GBS, you need to really, really plan to hit the ground running as soon as you get to ECAS. You need to knock out the pre-reqs if they do not accept them (please contact someone in econ about course equivalencies ASAP, or you will be sitting in basic econ. classes desparately wanting to “reclaim your time”) and you need to immediately get involved in things happening in the b-school or elsewhere that gets you involved in the business world that could perhaps converts to an internship position, before you even get to GBS. It seems like another thing that many people in GBS get access to internships before admissions. This is another reason that it is difficult to see the effect of the business school curriculum versus the students’ agression.
Also, the point is with the econ. thing is that they do not care about the grades and are so dumb that they do not offer placement tests. Your syllabus could be identical and they still discriminate likely because they want a higher headcount in those intro. courses. It is quite sad.
Also, do not use LinkedIn: You know that isn’t a complete picture. It provides “some” data. I think soemthing like Poets and Quants has much better data (like insider data). Emory is fine considering its location (in 2014 or 2015, it was like 32 for WS) and lower scores, but I don’t think number 32 screams target. Perhaps outside of that, it is fine, but if you only want WS (which sadly, seems to be the case for many regardless of how well finance pays in general), maybe not as much.
I think, as you say, the access to any of these positions is more so dependent on your resume than your coursework which explains why Ivy and Ivy Plus schools (and some more) without b-schools have students getting access to all types of positions regardless of major. If you can choose a major that gets you a solid background in something relevant as well as do some ECs or co-curriculars that are relevant, you get internship access. The internship access and performance is the key because folks can be trained or can learn the things in those courses on the job/in their internship. Do not be so stoked on these business schools (or at least not their curriculum. Trust me that isn’t what is doing the work. It is but a small contributing factor. Consider the SES background, academic background, EC background of the students as well as the alumni network). If you want to make it happen, it will regardless of whether or not you were at GBS. However, if you are to go to GBS. You really need to map things out super carefully. That involves perhaps starting talks with econ. now as I say. Send them a syllabus to them (there was no need to mention how you crushed the intro. econ courses…so do most people at Emory. The only reason that class has a B average is because they put the grades on a type of curved distribution that essentially specifies the grade cutoffs. Many students will get high numerical scores but not necessarily an A. Emory is hardly impressed by students who make As in its own intro. econ sequence, which may be why they are so picky about equivalents from elsewhere.
I personally don’t think anything is special about the level of the intro. econs. at Emory. The intermediate instructors are often very challenging however), and tell them the situation and ask if they would foresee taking the credit. You should know this in advanced as it will help you plan. If you have a calculus credit, that should transfer. I believe that stats may transfer (but ask GBS about that one or else you will need DSci). Try to get as much credits in as possible. This way you can take financial accounting (folks say this is hard, but I don’t think it is true. It seems to be applied algebra class that gives multiple choice tests with a time crunch. There are definitely harder courses in ECAS or the b-school) in addition to some courses either requiring it as pre-req or some other core b-school courses as opposed to you having to take crap like econ. 101,112, DSci. Get things in place so you can hit the ground running if you so badly want to be there. You don’t need to have your time wasted with the pettiness of the transfer process as you’ll likely be spending a lot of money. The friend I mentioned managed, but had to be really aggressive and did like I said and took the opportunity to take on extra classes while in the college, several of which were b-school classes. Use that opportunity if the course equivalencies work out.
I am also going to recommend the next fall Hack-a-thon to you. It is open to everyone, and despite not being related to finance, is a great opportunity for you to network with not only students and faculty in the business school, but others in the business community (of Atlanta or wherever at large). There are other things that are technically run by b-school students that you should try to probably involve yourself in (lots of entrepreneurial things. just because it isn’t finance does not mean it is irrelevant for professional development and your resume).
If you want IB you need to go through BBA.
This year we’re sending give or take 25-30 kids to NYC to IB. Maybe 5 of those come from the college. You don’t need a double degree (I would know, I made it without it).
PM me if you want more details/help
@thecoolboy1234 : My problem with that is that we do not have data on how many from ECAS who attempted NYC so vs. GBS, so you’ll never have a complete picture. Of course at a school with a large and prestigious BBA program (literally the number 1 chosen major for undergrads. at Emory), they would be over represented. Those looking to go into finance are simply much more likely to be in the business school (and admittedly for good reason, it has a clear allure). It’s a “default” pathway for those choosing that. The alumni and career center effect could be very real, but the way you just threw around that data does not contextualize the data enough. The fact that upwards to 5 folks from ECAS (a much more diverse entity likely with a much lower concentration of those pursuing finance altogether. The business school apparently had like 15% of Emory UGs in 2016 and econ. had 9%. We know that an overwhelming majority of folks in the b-school are aiming for something in their concentration, but among econ. majors, we have no clue how many are single majors looking for business related positions, actuarial positions, or are just some pre-law, pre-med, something like that. So at the most, assuming that most IB folks from ECAS come from econ, with econ. having all 9% of its students aiming for econ. related jobs, and that econ. is as concentrated with those applying NYC IB jobs in GBS, the most you would see is maybe about 10-11 from ECAS of that share you gave. Given this, 3-5 seems reasonable to me.) is quite the contrary to indicating a necessity so much as a clear edge.
Regardless, if that person is to go to GBS, they need lots of help planning primarily since they are a transfer student. If they had started at ECAS, I would have been all for GBS, but they aren’t so it gets a lot trickier. I just don’t agree that they should feel completely doomed if they don’t go. There are obviously ways to make it happen without the BBA. Since Emory will probably cost a lot more than UVA for this person, they better get ready to hit the ground running to make a BBA at Emory work in their favor towards this goal. Once you take that into consideration, this shouldn’t be as black and white without serious planning. If the two cost the same and they would only have to be at Emory for 2 years (as opposed to a possible 3, so one year supported by no or much weaker aid), then yeah, absolutely nothing to lose by going to Emory. But this case means that they must absolutely ensure that their time at Emory is not wasted.
http://goizueta.emory.edu/degree/undergraduate/beyond_academics/clubs_activities.html
I am hoping they get complete access to those finance clubs for example. My guess is that anyone in their first year in GBS counts as a “junior”, so hopefully they can do the Finance Academies. http://goizuetafinancegroup.org/investment-banking-academy/
They must take advantage of every opportunity possible I think (if they could find something before matriculating to GBS to enhance competitiveness for internships, it would be nice).
Just going to GBS and “crushing” the classes in the finance major is probably not enough. They would need to do as much as possible.
@thecoolboy1234 @bernie12 Thanks for the insight guys. I actually just found out that if I wanted to do Goizueta at Emory that I would pretty much have to step back 3 years… that’s simply not an option.
Accoring to Emory Admissions: A student must first be a student in the college of arts & sciences for two semesters prior to Goizueta. If admitted into Goizueta, a student must spend a minimum of 4 full semesters to graduate with their B.B.A. I’m coming in as a Junior which means i’d start over as an incoming sophomore…
So, I will PM you coolboy! I’d love to know as much as possible about Emory’s Econ program as it seems like that’s my only shot at Emory.
@bernie12 I agree with some of your points but just from the sheer exposure/opportunity bschool kids get I’ll bet that BBA is better just from an IB standpoint. And you could argue statistics and everything but ask any college student here (even professors) and they would argue that the bschool is the place to be if you want a better chance at IB. Heck, some banks that recruit on campus won’t even accept your application if you aren’t in the bschool.
However, I do agree with your overall assessment that for OP’s case BBA just doesn’t sound feasible.
@msport Headsup, IB recruiting starts mid August and ends September (for most BB/EB) if you’re interested in that start networking second semester sophomore year and get your connections especially if you’re going to compete as a non-target student. Not sure about the program of Emory’s econ program but from what it seems like its overshadowed by the business school here.
@thecoolboy1234 : I would argue that it is certainly better for the types of students EMORY gets. If this was some of the other elite schools without the business programs that traditionally do well with IB, it would probably be a different story because there are a greater variety of folks pursuing IB and many more quantitatively oriented students who would probably not pursue business even if it was offered. Those folks at Emory who do well in whatever major seem to do fine. My point is that usually the person who chooses to go to GBS and pursue that is not the same type that doesn’t. It clearly has an advantage for those with certain attributes that may not be as common at ECAS as some other elites (like an inclination to a more quantitatively rigorous education). I suppose for many of the types at Emory, it is an easier route. Also, since you threw out some statistics, I wanted to contextualize them.
’ but ask any college student here (even professors) and they would argue that the bschool is the place to be if you want a better chance at IB"
They would “argue” this and I never said it was “better” to stay in the college and do it so much as it being “very possible” (this is obviously true). And quite frankly, I would only trust the professors. This is only applicable in an Emory context IMHO and even that is questionable due to the clear selection effects. Like a person in the college pursuing econ, math, CS, QTM is perhaps more likely to “land” in IB by happenstance or late career decision to pursue that among other options. It is much less likely that they roll up in ECAS as a freshman (with no desire to go to GBS) thinking: “Yes, IB, that’s the one” like a person aiming for GBS, specifically a finance primary area depth. Some majors in ECAS are more likely to give you flexibility in terms of well-paid options post-grad, and IB may be among them, but many other things could be possible as well. If you are IB only, sure GBS is likely much better, but still NOT a necessity (optimal and necessary have different meanings). Given the OP’s situation, it being a complete necessity or not really matters because their precarious situation coming into ECAS as a junior presses them for time and money.
Either way, for this case, we are essentially discussing whether or not it is worth this person to struggle to graduate in 2 years by coming to Emory, or if they should try to just go to UVA, save the money, and make the most of the econ. major. If they can do it in 2 years, then maybe? But I feel that is pushing it. They need to somehow get those econ. credits waived so that they can jump into BBA pre-reqs PLUS their ECAS allotment for GBS courses (perhaps they can get strings pulled to allow them to take courses beyond the pre-reqs plus 2 extra courses as I think pre-BBA, you can only do 4ish courses as an ECAS student). It ain’t that easy for this poster, so they need to know possibilities to make the BBA work as well as some alternatives. ECAS is certainly not a perfect alternative for an IB only student, but it is viable if they work hard (like they would have to in GBS anyway. Only difference is that courses “may” require more calculus in econ).
The only reason why a BBA is so relevant for Emory students wanting to pursue IB (and IB only) in particular is because of the relative weakness of econ., CS, and math to some extent. This is usually not the case for target schools without UG business programs (perhaps it is similar at most of the other schools with renowned UG business schools). I would have to wonder what happens over time if QTM/QSS rises up as a respected contender that is well done. In that case, it may certainly become not only viable, but an optimal, well-connected route for those who do not want to go to GBS (maybe because another route makes it easier to blend academic/intellectual interests).
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@thecoolboy1234 For me it’s UVA Econ >>>>>>>> Emory Econ so it looks like i’ll be going that route. At UVA, there is no exclusive OCR for McIntire kids only - so I’ll be able to network and apply just as fairly as the commerce school kids. If it’s true that some banks only take Goizueta students then i’m obviously less inclined to go there as UVA is a target/semi-target for even GS/MS/JPM.
Also, thanks for the heads up but i’m well aware! I just got out of a superday at a bulge bracker and scored an offer for 2018 sophomore SA - which i’ll be taking.
@msport : Good choice. Even if both economics programs were of similar quality, one cannot justify paying more to do one over the other, even assuming similar potential to be “targeted” (I’m working on being a scientist so excuse me if the language I use about this isn’t exactly right. It ain’t my cup of tea). In addition, I looked up UVA’s intro. econ. requirement and it appears they give no trouble with you transferring the credit in. Emory gives trouble and the intro course at Emory, to my surprise, is probably a bit more rigorous (probably because section sizes are smaller and thus they can make students do homework and things of that nature. The best UVA does is I guess, give relatively simple MC tests. You likely received more rigorous training at your 2 year college). Generally it appears that calculus was only recently introduced as a serious component of UVA’s intermediate curriculum whereas mathematics is more ingrained in Emory’s curriculum beyond the intro. level. In addition, on top of econometrics, you have to take an econ. stats course at Emory (at most schools, it is usually one of the other, not both). No point in perhaps working harder and getting your credits rejected and then it being a similar or lower level target for those places (oh and then all the requirements have been put on the GBS curve).
I am having a similar question. I was recently accepted into Emory and will be attending there since the second semester of my sophomore year. I was wondering if I will be able to apply to Goizueta at the end of my junior year? And what are the chances? Thank you!