<p>UVa, clearly a fine school by everyone's account. I was reading through W & M and it seems to have some nice programs. Just wondering if it is similarly tough for OOS to gain admission there and how students / parents generally feel about the school, classes, faculty, living down there,,etc.. ? Thanks. Marc</p>
<p>That is a great question. Both schools are great academically, but for some reason UVa seems the hotter school. Many believe it is due to sports. Does anyone know if the business schools line up well?</p>
<p>william and mary and UVa have very similar admissions standards both IS and OOS. due to w&m's higher percentage of females, it might be slightly easier to get in if you're a guy, and slightly harder if you're a girl--although i really think it doesn't matter that much.</p>
<p>when compared, w&m is the "hotter school." it gets many more applications per spot than UVa does. UVa has much better name recognition, however. UVa is hurt because many people who apply OOS to UVa apply to W&M, and the same amount of people in VA apply to UVa and W&M. UVa is 2x the size of W&M.</p>
<p>^ on second thought, UVa isn't "hurt", but rather, maybe w&m is helped.</p>
<p>Would you say that greater name recogntion equates to great prestige?</p>
<p>no. but if you have a name, you shouldn't be far off.</p>
<p>W&M may be just as good as UVa academically (ugrad at least), but UVa is more prestigious. While W&M alumni and students may object to that statement, I think its hard to dispute.</p>
<p>^^^^
I don't think that would be hard to dispute at all. William and Mary has plenty of great things going for it. It may not have the name recognition of UVa, but it does have a stronger reputation in academia (or thats what everyone tells me). Which is important if you are going to go in grad school. I saw the stats for grad schools acceptance; 60% go after 5 years of graduation, 80% accepted to med school (i think...this is off the top of my head), and some other stuff. This isn't to say that UVa doesn't, because I think they have the highest number of placement to elite law schools than any other public. </p>
<p>Either way, I would say their prestige level is about the same, but I heard W&M's undergrad is more rigourous/stronger. As for how others see it, they are very different from each other. I'll go into detail later.</p>
<p>Board in Wren Cross fiasco targeted </p>
<p>'It will take a decade to repair the damage' </p>
<p>Posted: April 21, 2007 </p>
<p>© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com </p>
<p>A campaign has been started at the College of William and Mary in Virginia to shake up the school's governing Board of Visitors after a debacle involving the display of a donated Christian cross in the historic Wren Chapel. </p>
<p>Lance Kyle, AB '89, contacted WND after it reported that a local independent newspaper had called for the Board, which runs the school, not to renew the contract of college President Gene Nichol, who triggered the fiasco. </p>
<p>His decision to arbitrarily remove the cross from its historic display setting launched a petition with more than 18,000 signatures of school alums, students and supporters who wanted it return. It also triggered the cancellation of a planned donation of $12 million. </p>
<p>Now Kyle says perhaps the Board of Visitors, whose members are appointed by state officials, also have some answering to do. </p>
<p>He said, for example, while competitor University of Virginia saw undergraduate applications increase 10 percent, and Rice was up 15 percent, William and Mary's rose less than one percent. The academic performance of incoming students has dropped, and the law school fell four places, he said.. </p>
<p>"Nichol's loss of the McGlothlin $10-12 [million] bequest may keep the school from reaching the $500 [million] goal by the June 30, 2007, close," Kyle said. </p>
<p>The campus committee decision to restore the cross to the chapel, but place it inside a special glass case, still is discriminatory treatment of the Christian faith, he said. </p>
<p>"Fact is, neither UVa nor any other U.S. university with a historic chapel puts their cross in a glass case," Kyle said. </p>
<p>He said many of those signing the Wren Cross petition now have "turned their backs on the school forever" which indicates a serious failing in relations with alumni. </p>
<p>And what once was a growth rate of 12 percent in the endowment fund now is about two percent. </p>
<p>"The school sustained serious damage to alumni relations, fundraising and reputation under the current Administration and is in serious danger of falling further in the rankings… The competition is coming up fast and it's all about money." </p>
<p>"I implore the BOV not to renew Nichols' $400k+ contract in June 2008 and to tell him now that 'it's not working out' so that both sides can make a smooth transition," he said. </p>
<p>In a letter to Katherine Hanley, in the office of appointments for the state, he asked officials to withhold second term reappointment for John Gerdelman, Anita Poston and Henry Wolf "based on ethical considerations, poor judgment in the presidential selection process and failure to resolve the Wren Cross crisis…" </p>
<p>"The BOV surely knew we were falling in the endowment rankings back in 2003 and they still selected a new president in 2005 with a poor fundraising track record," he said. </p>
<p>"Does our BOV think that our low tuition and historical assets are going to carry us forever? We can't even count on these competitive advantages now that Nichol has antagonized the General Assembly and has taken a wrecking ball to the Wren," he said. </p>
<p>"Gene Nichol doesn't 'get it.' He doesn't understand how basic economic principles dictate which American universities are successful and which are not. Some schools 'trade' on their sports teams or successful alumni while others … 'build on their history.' Thing is, we don't have a major sports team, medical center or lots of successful, contemporary alumni which we can leverage to lure students and endowment dollars," Kyle said. </p>
<p>"What we do have, though, is unmatchable historic assets," he said. "You see, you can't just bulldoze the Wren Building and think nobody will notice. The place is sacred and is responsible directly or indirectly for every student, faculty member and endowment dollar we take in," he said. </p>
<p>"It is time for us to leverage our amazing academic traditions and historic capital (comparable to Harvard) and our relatively low tuition … and take our case to the money centers," he said. "We need to raise our standards and move the school to its 'rightful place among the world's' top universities." </p>
<p>WND earlier reported on the local newspaper's similar stance, and duplicate call for the Board not to keep Nichol around. </p>
<p>A telephone message from WND requesting a comment from Nichol was not returned. </p>
<p>I recall having read about that. What a foolish move.</p>
<p>obaig89,</p>
<p>"[W&M] does have a stronger reputation in academia [than UVa]"</p>
<p>thats not true, whoever told you that is either just bolstering their ego, or is uninformed.</p>
<p>"I heard W&M's undergrad is more rigourous/stronger"</p>
<p>W&M's average ugrad GPA is actually higher than UVa's, which suggests that that isn't the case. I doubt that theres more "hard workers" at W&M than at UVa. Of course this doesn't mean W&M is easy, its just to say that the reputation for W&M of being a super rigorous school is unfounded.</p>
<p>In response to the article cited, what exactly are "historical assets?" Wren hall may be a old building that houses administration or classes (i'm not really sure what function it has), but I don't see how it really helps other than being a pretty building with a nice story to go along with it (much like the lawn is at UVa).</p>
<p>I believe that UVA has a better reputation than WM. That said, their academics are essentially identical. The biggest difference between UVA and WM are non-academic, and definitely worth consideration.</p>
<p>Historical assets help if one is studying anthropology/history. Digs right near the school? My opinion of the two schools from my own college days, watching my sons wrestle in college and when viewing the schools with my daughter.....W&M has more a private school feel. Smaller classes. Very people. A bit more attentive. UVA is huge by comparision. Has great sports which is terrific. Sons graduated from UVA with full ride wrestling scholarships. Youngerst son coach wrestling at W&M until they dropped the program. Daughter will attend W&M. Both great schools but way different "feel"</p>
<p>Yes, the two schools are different types of campuses. A lot depends on what you're seeking in the college experience. W&M is set in Colonial Williamsburg which many kids enjoy; UVA has more of a suburban campus feel, IMO. You also have to consider the lifestyles of each school; i.e., how are the dorms set up? Academically, you can't go wrong with either decision.</p>
<p>UVirginia is one of the best State Research schools in the country. Its graduate programs are on par with the best in the country. Heavy Greek influence and sports in ACC are very competitive.</p>
<p>W&M is more of an undergrad focus with a strong teaching faculty. Very much a "private LAC" feel which makes sense b/c it was private for 200 years. It has more of an intellectual environment than UVA which is good for some, bad for others.</p>
<p>Both are good schools and UVA has better name recognition due to its sports programs. Just like more people know Georgetown due to basketball than say Johns Hopkins. Very much an apples and oranges comparison.</p>
<p>In terms of undergraduate business, McIntire (UVA) is ranked higher and probably has better recruiting. W&M is not bad and is nationally ranked on the BW list. If you plan on getting an MBA, then you may not do undergraduate business. At the McIntire session, they were clear that very few people leave straight to get an MBA, most who go to graduate school are going to law school. However some people do leave and work a corporate job for a couple of years and then get an MBA. But if you are interested in something like economics for undergrad, then I'm not sure which is better, if either one is significantly better.</p>
<p>my child got in to both UVA and WM, and in 9 days she will be graduating from UVA! four years ago, after much of her own poll-taking, the choice for UVA was clear. (by the way, OOS) both schools are very similar academically, but that seems to be where the similarities end. most told her UVA was generally harder to get into OOS, and had the WAY better level of prestige and reputation. (on our campus visit to WM it was very clear they were on the defensive about UVA, always forcing comparisons during the tour.) WM had a smaller, more insulated feel, while UVA was larger, more diverse, with the pulse of "TJ"(its creator, Thomas Jefferson) running through it. greek life is a bit MUCH at UVA, but doesn't need to be a major focus if it doesn't suit you. my d. is graduating with a wonderful future ahead of her, with a job waiting for her, and the option of a good grad school around the corner. just one parent's experience!</p>
<p>I dispute the claim that UVA's average GPA is lower than WM's. Though I will say that several of WM's departments have been known for being on the easier side and inflating grades somewhat such as psych and government</p>
<p>However, the schools are similar in a number of respects and it is more of a fit thing than anything else. WM tends to be a much odder, quirky student body than UVa's, but thats just my perception of it.</p>
<p>i'm sorry. i recant my prior state. the average GPA at UVa and W&M is both just about 3.2 (3.19 at UVa in as of the most recent semester, 3.2 at W&M in 2005)...i was looking at older UVa data which was from the year 2000, when the average GPA was about 3.1. regardless, i think its safe to say that w&m isn't the pressure cooker most people say it is, and UVa isn't the easier less academic party school...</p>
<p>I would say that IS and OOS, UVA and W&M are both about the same in terms of how hard they are to get into. I know lots of people who were match/reaches and got into one or the other, top students for whom both were essentially safeties (IS obviously) and got into both, and students who had them as big reaches and didn't get into either. W&M is harder for OOS girls from the PA area, while UVA tends to end up admitting slightly more boys. So with either one it is going to depend somewhat demographically whether it was harder to get into, but I would say their incoming classes as similar. I do not view either UVA or W&M as "forcing" comparisions, it comes up naturally at either as top IS students have usually been thinking about the two for a couple of years. There are some obvious comparisions and some big differences. In Va most people I know consider them about equal. Outside of Va most people have heard of them but I'm pretty sure they aren't as focused on it as any Virginian or certainly the schools themselves will have you believe. Inside Virginia, you have to be careful who you talk to, because everyone has an opinion on where the "prestige factor" is higher, and they usually base it on which one they went to/which one their kid attends/which one gave them a lanyard once. </p>
<p>
[quote]
However, the schools are similar in a number of respects and it is more of a fit thing than anything else. WM tends to be a much odder, quirky student body than UVa's, but thats just my perception of it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is my perception also. I liked that aspect better because I found it a little more accepting and embracing, but I certainly know some odd ducks at UVA, not to mention some very buttoned down people at W&M, and I don't think UVA is as preppy as some people make it out to be. But some groups at W&M definitely seem a little more outwardly quirkly.</p>