<p>I wish there was a better way for kids and teachers to resolve the AP signups. This is the time of year when teachers sign up (or refuse to sign up) kids to take their AP classes. It can be a "tense" time for both teachers, students and parents.</p>
<p>On one hand, I understand that teachers don't want "screw ups" in the class. It is understandable that teachers want kids who will pay attention, won't be disruptive and will do the assignments. It is also understandable that teachers don't want kids to fail the national exam because teachers are sometimes blamed when there are failures.</p>
<p>On the other hand, well-behaved students with high GPA's and a genuine interest should be allowed to take the AP classes. </p>
<p>I don't think teachers should be "penalized" if some kids don't pass the national exam (ESPECIALLY, if it can be shown that those kids didn't read their texts and/or do their homework.). </p>
<p>There should be a "happy medium" where a "good kid" can get approved to take a class and where a teacher won't be "punished" when a kid fails the test.</p>
<p>Does anybody's school have a more fair way of handling the signups issue that doesn't penalize a teacher and also allows "good kids" to get the approvals needed to take the AP classes? </p>
<p>My friends, family and I have our kids at several different high schools (some private, most public). There seems to be "this issue" every year where some good students can't get approval and it seems that the teachers are just scared that someone is going to blame them if a certain percentage of kids don't pass (I can totally understand a teacher being cautious, so I'm not criticizing the teachers.)</p>
<p>I have heard not of teachers getting blamed, or being "penalized" for their students not doing well in the AP exams. </p>
<p>Just as students cannot decide to take Honors classes without meeting the requirements, most schools have some criteria for getting into AP classes. Our particular school requires an A- in a lower level class taken the previous year, e.g. in order to take AP calculus, you must have had an A- in Math Analysis; So technically, a good student automatically gets in. There is also an appeals process if you had a B+ average but then they consider your latest IOWA (standardized test) scores. In any case, a teacher cannot prevent a student who meets the written guidelines, from taking an AP class.</p>
<p>The AP courses are taught at a demanding pace, and have a lot of H.W. and independent reading. Even smart students who have overloaded themselves with 6 APs in one year, drop a couple, if it is too intense.</p>
<p>What you need is for someone to collect data on the ethnic makeup (percentages of white, Hispanic, Asian-American, African-American, and Native American students) of the AP classes and compare it with the ethnic makeup of the high school as a whole.</p>
<p>The chances are good that you will find a substantial disparity in the two sets of numbers.</p>
<p>Then you need someone to suggest that the policy of allowing teachers to choose whether or not to admit students to AP classes is contributing to this inequality of access to AP courses.</p>
<p>Then you stand back and watch the fur fly.</p>
<p>In the school system where my kids go to school, the "inequality of access" issue was raised several years ago, leading to a dramatic change from restrictive enrollment in honors and AP classes to a policy that specifically states that high school principals must ensure that all students who have the "capability, motivation, or potential to accept the challenge" of honors and AP courses will be accorded an opportunity to do so. There are still criteria for enrollment (like having completed the prerequisites), but there is now a formal process to ensure that students are not unfairly excluded from these courses, and there's an appeals process for students who are denied enrollment but want to take the course anyway.</p>
<p>Our AP classes don't have enough spaces for all the kids who want who want to enroll (and generally are qualified by scores, grades, essays, pre-requisites, etc.). There just aren't enough teachers trained and/or otherwise qualified to teach AP level classes (and some of the teachers don't want to be trained - too much work, too much grading of essays, have to write too many college rec letters for these AP students).</p>
<p>A couple of years ago a well-liked teacher was removed from teaching an AP class because his students consistently didn't do very well on the AP exam.</p>
<p>Wow, that sounds annoying! At my sons' HS they are supposed to have a certain GPA to get into the AP class, but frankly, any kid who really wanted to could. They are REQUIRED to take the exam though.</p>
<p>choc: In any case, a teacher cannot prevent a student who meets the written guidelines, from taking an AP class.</p>
<p>I think that is what I'm looking for.... some kind of written guidelines that if a student meets, he can take the class. My neighbor's kid's public school does give teachers a "hard time" if a certain percentage don't pass, therefore, one teacher (understandably) doesn't want to sign up anyone that she doesn't think can get at least a 4 (even tho a 3 is passing) even if the kid is a good student. I am not blaming the teacher.... I don't think a teacher should be penalized. Is there a fairer system that will work for all (good students and teachers)?</p>
<p><<< A couple of years ago a well-liked teacher was removed from teaching an AP class because his students consistently didn't do very well on the AP exam. >>></p>
<p>This is the problem that I am referring to. Teachers are bound to get "scared" to sign up kids when they might get punished if a percentage don't do well. Maybe there is a percentage that should be expected to pass (I don't have any idea of what that number should be) but no teacher should be held to a certain number EACH year (cuz the mix of students change each year and sometimes an inadequate text book was selected by the district).</p>
<p>Instead of "removing" an AP teacher, a school should try to "work with the teacher" to identify WHY a certain number wasn't passing the nat'l exam. The problem may have been the TEXT BOOK which the teacher doesn't get to pick!! Our school was SO glad that the cycle for replacing history books occured this year because it was unhappy with the AP US history book that it had been using. Text books are SOOOOO expensive so if a 'bad one" is selected, the school (or district) is stuck with it for awhile!</p>
<p>Going to a Newsweek Top 30 school, it's shocking for me to hear that teachers refuse to allow some students to take AP courses because they aren't "good enough". At my school, AP courses are open to every single student - as long as he/she has passed the required prerequisites (For example, in order to AP Biology, one has to take Biology and Chemistry).</p>
<p>Going into a new year, teachers and counselors advise students on which classes they should take, but in the end it is the student's decision. Every student should have the right to challenge themselves by taking AP courses if they wish.</p>
<p>My kids' high schools both had an application process involving essay submission for the AP English classes, which tend to be filled to capacity - so there needed to be some sort of screening process. I honestly have no clue as to the other AP's -- it seemed that my kids just took what they wanted to take, and that the major problem was resolving scheduling conflicts. For example, my daughter had to take honors US history rather than AP US history because of the time slot available to her -- but the honors course is taught by the same teacher and, with the teacher's encouragement, she took the APUSH exam.</p>
<p>At our school AP classes are done at the recommendation of the teachers. But students and/or parents can request that their child be placed in the AP classes, and these requests are honored. Our AP classes are very challenging and very few parents lobby for placement in these classes for students who really will not be able to handle the work.</p>
<p>I feel fortunate that the public high school my girls attend is a little bit different. Any student who wants to take an AP class can--provided they complete all the summer work, approximately 1 week before the start of school. The summer work is a big load, but I have been surprised by the diligence of some kids who get it done. (Some of these kids are former students of mine from middle school and I would have never thought them to be "AP Students," but they have thrived with this opportunity.) These kids usually don't score a 4 or 5 on the tests, but generally score a 3. They are much better prepared for college than those who didn't have this opportunity.
Of course, this does not apply to AP exams whereby there are oher prereqs (such as an AP math class or an AP language class), but everything else is open.</p>
<p>At our school any student is free to sign up for an AP class. For some classes there are prerequisite courses but for others, it's simply a matter of signing up. There are no special requirements or recommendations from teachers.
Of course there are may be some who end up over there heads but the school system encourages all who want to try it to do so. Taking the exams is required and is paid for by the school system.</p>
<p>At my D's school, signups are fair. Each student meets with his current teachers to discuss their recommendations for the next year's courses. If AP is not recommended, a student can still elect to take AP classes if the student's parents approve. Even if the student does not take the class, he can still take the exam by contacting the AP coordinator and getting the info needed to order the exam and sit for it.</p>
<p>The AP people say that anyone should be allowed to take AP if they so choose. Our district follows this mandate. No prereqs. Our understanding is that disallowing someone from signing up violates the AP rules. Our teachers are not penalized. No one can turn you down. Interesting that you can get turned down for Honors, but not AP. The counselor may try to get the kid not sign up if they really believe the student has overextended himself. So, we have some kids failing AP classes. The kids are pretty good about knowing whether or not they feel prepared for the test, and most who won't do well opt not to take the test.</p>
<p>How does your district handle the problem of an AP class that is over-enrolled? That is, suppose there are 40 kids who want to take AP US history and class size is limited to 30 - how is that resolved?</p>
<p>At our kids' HS, kids meet with their counselors about their course schedules & planning. The parents & students are advised not to overload the kids. They do have recommended & some required prerequisites before the student can sign up for APs, but these can be negotiated if the student & family are interested.</p>
<p>My D wanted to take AP US for junior year, but we feel she should stick with "regular" US history (overextended), as does the school. At our kids' school, ALL kids who take the AP course MUST take the AP exam.</p>
<p>The school counsels students & parents NOT to have kids take more than one or two APs, but allows exceptions where the student & family & school believes they are appropriate. There are seniors taking ONLY APs, but most juniors just take one or up to three APs.</p>
<p>Kids preregister and the counselors and administrators work out the logistics. (we already have our districutions - ie, so many level 1 classes, so many level 2, etc.) They would split the class of 40 into 2, or let it stay at 40! Yuck! Believe it or not! Numbers usually aren't the problem - the problem is those unpopular AP classes - small numbers so they are only offered once a day, with many conflicts, so kids have to pick and choose and may not be able to take all they want. Some kids beg the teachers to let them do independent study in order to get a certain class in. We have 2 students doing AP Spanish Lit this year IS. They sit with the Spanish AP kids and do their own thing. Not the best solution, puts a strain on the teacher, but a solution, nevertheless.</p>
<p>Yeah, son had wanted to take AP Psych, but it conflicted with his other APs, so we suggested he not take it & have a bit of free time for senior year to work on aps & enjoy friends & HS--what a concept! Scheduling can be challenging when there aren't many kids taking a course.</p>
<p>Our school also has prerequistes and summer homework. I don't disagree entirely with either. However, the one teacher that teaches honors english 11 is a very hard grader and one of the grade prerequistes for AP english is that you get at least a B in honors enlish 11 or an A in regular 11th grade english. My son had a rough year in eleventh grade and got a C+ in honors english, so for the first time since second grade was not allowed in the most rigourous english class offered. The kicker is that it's well known in our school that the AP english is easier then the 11th grade honors english. There is no honors english for 12th grade either - it's AP or regular.</p>