How does your school handle Val & Sal?

<p>Uggh. As I noted before, the val is listed in the commencement program, but is not given a speech. In fact, last year the program read "Well, I guess one person has to be named valedictorian and this year it's ....." This at the elite private college prep school in our area. The senior class president makes the commencement speech. My kid told me last night that elections were held yesterday and that the senior class president is, as usual, the most popular kid...the girl with the biggest bazooms! We're all looking forward to her speech.</p>

<p>Well, at my son's graduation last night, none of the top 5 students said anything. I think that I had read on a paper my son had that if you wanted to give a speech you had to read it before a committee & then you were picked to do it. The top 10 students sat on stage & were given recognition (told where they were going to college, their hobbies, & EC's). The remainder of the students who were in NHS or received department awards or scholarships had to stand up (the principal read off their name & then what they received, etc.).</p>

<p>quiltguru - wish I could be there:)</p>

<p>My school ranks on weighted GPA, which is a joke because fine arts don't get any more weight and are included, so people with 4.0s unweighted who drop orchestra or band their senior year usually jump several spots in rank over people who stay in fine arts four years, which is a shame.</p>

<p>Val and Sal give speeches, as does the class president (usually a prayer included in that), and the top 5% graduate in order of rank. Then the next 10% graduates in alphabetical order, then everybody else in alphabetical order. It's a large public school, graduation class of 668.</p>

<p>There is an additonal awards ceremony two weeks before graduation where people are recognized for scholarships and national merit and other honors. Some underclassmen are also there getting school awards.</p>

<p>My school doesn't rank, so we don't do val and sal by overall GPA...however, we do recognize the valedictorian in 3-4 subjects (the most prestigious being English).</p>

<p>The way it works is that each senior-year English teacher (about 3 of them teaching a total of 6 senior classes) nominates one student per class, whom she or he considers to be outstanding (and it is not always the student with the highest mark in the class, but usually in the top 3). Those six students are then put on a ballot, on which the seniors vote (it's a relatively small school, so everyone knows each other).</p>

<p>The teachers feel it is the fairest way, and most of the students agree.</p>

<p>There should be a valedictorian and salutorian.</p>

<p>As for speeche(s)... open it to any graudating person... best speaker(s) goe(s).</p>

<p>at our school the val. and sal. gave speeches at graduation.. I can't believe they threw a fit about the art courses difficulty vs. non art course difficulty. That's ridiculous.. and it proves the point that people will try to sue about anything these days..</p>

<p>Hi, Patsmom -</p>

<p>Thanks for the interesting/frustrating article. I imagine a mod will be along presently to edit it down to the link (we're asked not to cut and paste entire articles on CC because of copyright concerns). But it's well worth reading because it indicates just how out of control GPA lust can get. How in the world can a kid graduate with a 7.43 GPA? Sure he set the record at his high school - he must have set the WORLD record too, for pete's sake.

[quote]

''Everybody doesn't win the Academy Award,'' he said. ``Many are nominated, but only one can win.''

[/quote]

Does anyone else find it kind of disturbing that a public school administrator justifies having a single valedictorian because that's the way they do it at the Oscars? I really think he should make a better argument. Let's not forget that Grace Kelly in "The Country Girl" beat Judy Garland in "A Star is Born" because she gave up the designer wardrobe for a cardigan. And Cuba Gooding in "Jerry Maguire" over William Macy in "Fargo"? Please.</p>

<p>There's no reason to make the ranks public, if anything.</p>

<p>The GCs should be able to privately keep track and note the rank on the recommendation form. It's really not that difficult to figure out.</p>

<p>Whoops, sorry Mods -- I didn't know it was a problem to paste a whole article. I would have just put the link but the Herald requires registration to view articles. Here's the actual link in case you want to delete or edit my post: <a href="http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11765780.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11765780.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I apologize for the error!</p>

<p>Our school has the ASB president and senior class president emcee the graduation. Along with a school board member and the principal, there are two student speakers and one faculty speaker. One student speaker is chosen by the seniors (Popularity vote? It usually works out to be a terrific choice.), and the second is chosen by the faculty. The faculty speaker is chosen by the seniors.</p>

<p>The school does not name valedictorians/salutatorians, although pretty much every kid knows who has a 4.0 (and most years there are several). Courses are not weighted for transcript purposes, however, they are for ranking purposes only (for college recommendation forms). Notations next to graduates' names on the graduation program show top 5% of class, AP Scholars, etc.</p>

<p>I'm part of the class of 2007. Starting with the class of 2006, my school weighted honors and AP classes for class rank purposes only. 1.05 for honors classes; 1.10 for AP classes. To reiterate, this was not added in order to calculate numerical GPA shown on transcripts.</p>

<p>Traditionally, there was no weighting and consequently valedictorian and salutatorian were often awarded to students who avoided AP and instead opted for straight-up CP classes. This greatly devalued the prestige of valedictorian and salutatorian as these students did not attend top-tier state universities or top-tier private universities.</p>

<p>However, I still have some complaint about the current system.</p>

<p>It is my fault that I did not strive to maintain an even higher GPA. At the conclusion of my sophomore year, I had a cumulative GPA of around 96. I definitely won't be either valedictorian or salutatorian as they have GPAs closer to 99.</p>

<p>But, I started taking AP classes as a freshman and continued my sophomore year. I took Cal AB as a freshman and Bio as a sophomore and made a 100 and 97, respectively. I never hedged my GPA by saying no to AP early on.</p>

<p>These guys won't be taking AP until next year. So, yes, they do deserve the honor of being valedictorian and salutatorian much more than in previous years, but they still took advantage of the system in their favour.</p>

<p>There is a very interesting article on the pratfalls of val & sal in the latest issue of THE NEW YORKER magazine entitled Best in Class. It also discusses the Brook Hornstine case which has been the topic of numerous threads on these boards. This article is a very good one --</p>

<p>BEST IN CLASS
by MARGARET TALBOT
Students are suing their way to the top.
Issue of 2005-06-06
Posted 2005-05-30</p>

<p>Daniel Kennedy remembers when he still thought that valedictorians were a good thing. Kennedy, a wiry fifty-nine-year-old who has a stern buzz cut, was in 1997 the principal of Sarasota High School, in Sarasota, Florida. Toward the end of the school year, it became apparent that several seniors were deadlocked in the race to become valedictorian. At first, Kennedy saw no particular reason to worry. “My innocent thought was What possible problem could those great kids cause?” he recalled last month, during a drive around Sarasota. “And I went blindly on with my day.”</p>

<p>The school had a system in place to break ties. “If the G.P.A.s were the same, the award was supposed to go to the kid with the most credits,” Kennedy explained. It turned out that one of the top students, Denny Davies, had learned of this rule, and had quietly arranged to take extra courses during his senior year, including an independent study in algebra. “The independent study was probably a breeze, and he ended up with the most credits,” Kennedy said. </p>

<p>Davies was named valedictorian. His chief rivals for the honor were furious—in particular, a girl named Kylie Barker, who told me recently that she had wanted to be valedictorian “pretty much forever.” </p>

<p>Kennedy recalled, “Soon, the kids were doing everything they could to battle it out.” As we drove past sugary-white beaches, high-rise hotels, and prosperous strip malls, he told me that the ensuing controversy “effectively divided the school and the community.” Kennedy took the position that Davies had followed the school’s own policy, which he had been resourceful enough to figure out, and whether he should have been allowed to load on an easy extra class was beside the point. He’d done it, and he hadn’t broken any rules. Davies’s guidance counsellor, Paul Storm, agreed. In an interview with the Sarasota Herald-Tribune at the time, he said of Davies, “He’s very clever. He said, ‘I want to be valedictorian. I’ve figured out I need to do this and that. Can you help me?’ Denny had a good strategy, and this strategy was available to anyone who was a competitor.”</p>

<p>Barker’s supporters argued that what Davies had done was a sneaky way of gaming the system. “It never crossed my mind to approach it as a strategy,” Barker, who is now pursuing a Ph.D. in chemistry at Northwestern University, said. “I just thought it was something you worked really hard for.” Kimberly Belcher, who was ranked third that year, and who is now studying for a doctorate in theology at Notre Dame University, told me, “Among our friends, who were sort of the Academic Olympics and National Honor Society types, it was a big deal. Most of the people I knew thought that it was unfair of Denny to use what we thought of as a loophole to take a class that was too easy for him, and to do it secretly. We felt betrayed. I’m not angry anymore, but, boy, I was angry then.” Davies, who is now a captain in the Air Force, and is stationed in Germany, said that he didn’t care to comment about the dispute, except to say that he was a “firm believer in the idea that people benefit from healthy competition.”</p>

<p><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050606fa_fact%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050606fa_fact&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Our daughter was the Sal last weekend--didn't know it until it was announced at graduation. The seniors can apply to give speeches; neither the Val nor Sal did this year. We use weighted GPA's and the top two make it. The school has a written policy that deals with ties (goes to 4 decimal places, then SAT scores, then grades in the senior year, then junior year, then sophmore year, then freshman year). We have to have a Val because the state gives $ to Val if they go to any in-state college.</p>

<p>At S's school, Val and Sal are selected by highest GPA, unweighted (school does not weight), if there is a tie, which rarely happens because A+'s are a 4.3, those who tie share the speeches. The kids don't know who is what until the day before graduation. Not much time for speechifying, but the speeches are usually pretty good anyway.</p>

<p>At my school, we have no rankings and we have no val/sal. Anyone who wants to make a speech at graduation or perform a song can do so as long as you notified the scheduler you wished to do so. One of the students makes a montage of 3 photos per student and then where they are each going to college.</p>

<p>It looks like all three students interviewed have become quite successful. You have two pursuing doctorates and one O-3 officer in the USAF.</p>

<p>Our school has a weighted G.P.A. system (2 bonus points for AP/Dual Enrollment and 1 point for Honors) Val - highest gpa Sal - second highest.. that's it.
Closest tie we had was in '03 when the Val had a 6.514 and the Sal had a 6.508 (I think.. It was crazy.)
Val, Sal, Class President give speeches.
I think our school is doing away with the rank system because the competition in quite ridiculous among the underclassmen (especially class of '07). Everyone is trying to game the system by getting as many credits as possible through dual enrollment at MDC (2 bonus points! OMG) in that class. Bah.
Val has a 6.4, Sal has a 6.2.. no suing here! Graduation is tomorrow and I'm out of here!</p>

<p>Wow...our public school has lower standards than most...we don't do sals, but we can have an unlimited number of vals- as long as you have a 4.0 and have taken 10 honors classes by the end of senior fall semester, you qualify for val...which meant 14(!) speeches on grad day...not fun</p>

<p>No Sal. Just Val. School had to wait until grades were ready, only 2 days before graduation. Such achievers in class that GPAs (unweighted) had to be determined from several decimal places. Result was 2 equal first-placers, each of whom gave a speech.</p>