I’m currently a college junior pursuing a BS in CS and math, with minors in music and dance (the former of which I am on scholarship for). When I started my freshman year I was planning on triple majoring and getting a BA in math, music, and CS. I quickly realized that the few extra courses I would have to take for the music major (that I wouldn’t have taken otherwise) weren’t worth my time; my scholarship does require me to at least minor in music, so I still had to take a couple music courses that I wasn’t interested in. The ability to fit in courses also depends on the school. At my university double majors and/or minors are very common and degree requirements are flexible enough that they’re quite doable with careful planning.
My university also recommended freshmen ease into the workload with a lighter first semester, but I didn’t do that. I got nearly straight A’s while taking primarily sophomore level courses (linear algebra, data structures, etc). There hasn’t really been a difference in terms of success between me and my friends who started with an easier course load. If she wants to be ambitious and graduate in four years (like what I’m doing), she’ll need to start with a heavy course load her first semester. She can always drop a class if need be (she should pay attention to the dates, since there are cutoffs for when you can drop without penalty).
Also, I’m assuming that the music major is a BA, yes? If so, it’ll very likely be less time consuming than what many of the folks here are thinking (my brother has a BM from a conservatory and my university only offers a BA, so I’m very aware of the differences in the curriculums). BA programs typically have much less intense performance requirements (typically 1 hour lesson per week plus one ensemble per semester) and are much more academic focused (musicology, theory, etc). The one caveat is that if the engineering degree is a BS (which most are), she may depending on the university, have two sets of core courses/gen eds to fulfill, which may cause some difficulties.
I would recommend your daughter plot out on paper a 4 year program putting in all the requirements for both majors plus all other requirements such as general ed classes, course prerequisites etc as a basic guideline. This would help her see how the dual degree would fit together and can it be done on time just taking 12/13 credits to start. My major wasn’t a stem major but required two internships. By taking 18 credits most semesters I was able to reduce my credits the semesters I did my internships to 15 and 12. My last semester senior year I was doing a 20 hour a week internship plus commute time,weekly internship meeting (no credit but still took up time), senior seminar which was basically a capstone class for my major and required me to teach a 2.5 hour class with a partner, write a 15 page paper etc. and take another class to maintain my full time status. I also remained active in some activities and focused on job hunting etc. I think it would have been difficult to enjoy my last semester needing to take more classes due to starting light but found it easy to start out with 18 credits. I also worked 5-10 hours a week all 8 semesters at a work study job though I changed jobs after my freshman year to one that offered more flexible schedule.
^this is what my D did/plans to do. She sat down and plotted out 8 semesters of study to see if she could double in two STEM areas and still minor in Spanish. She also wants to study abroad spring of junior year and do at least one summer internship. It appeared doable on paper and she is moving along quite fine now finishing up semester #4, rising junior. She takes 5 classes/18 credits per semester ( generally three at 4 cr and 2 at 3 cr) if she can, a balance of sorts. It is important to take the classes in a particular order and to boot she is at a relatively small LAC that offers some classes only spring of odd years or fall of even years, that sort of thing, which just complicates things. She has completed all requirements for one major and nearly all for the Spanish minor, hopefully she’ll have a more relaxing study abroad semester and take a couple humanity/diversity type classes.
I have advised many incoming freshman at a top 10 LAC about what to take first semester. I have advised that the goal first semester is to be successful (however you define it) and become acclimated to school life, sharing a dorm room, and all else that comes from being away from home. Many students come in with the ability to place our of classes and therefore, take higher level classes such as math. I suggest - why take advanced math classes with junior or seniors when you can wait a term and take it with your peers. Take your freshman seminar, intro class that you need for graduating and one intro class in your major. I’ve seen students gain a tremendous amount of confidence in doing well first term - as opposed to taking incredibly rigorous classes and getting Cs which undermines their confidence. I realize engineering is a different animal with a strict regime of classes which is why I obtained a BA at a LAC and them a PhD in Engineering. You also need to know your child. Mine was introverted, never shared a room, etc. I gave my child the same advice which she took, the transition to a place with a lot of people crowded together was tough. She graduated Summa, finishing PhD in science at top graduate school.
As a former academic advisor… I would typically recommend that students take at least enough credits so if they drop the one class that has the most credits they will still complete 12 hours. As a parent (OU Engineering-- Boomer!) my child did not do that-- she took 15 credits; and her Chem class was worth 5 credits (worked out fine for her- she did well in all her classes; second semester now is taking 17 hrs) Music classes can be deceptively time consuming-- a one credit class may require hours of lessons, rehearsals, performances-- so ask around. @3scoutsmom may have more info on the level of work required for music classes at OU. And as someone said upstream-- maximize your AP classes-- even look at taking CLEP exams (OU does accept these for some classes.) OU also has a winter term and a May term where you can find some gen-ed courses available online (and yes the NMF package will cover tuition- but not fees- for these classes as well.)
At my university, the curricula in various areas of engineering are heavily structured, with very few electives. While 120 credits are required for graduation in most majors, more than 120 credits are required in engineering. The only “break” that the engineers get from the math/science/engineering courses is with the distribution requirements (humanities, social science, writing). I think they have 4 elective courses in a 4-year time frame.
I have seen transcripts of music majors at my university. They are typically full of music courses, with one course outside of music per semester.
Both music and engineering courses are very demanding, in terms of time required.
It would be genuinely impossible for someone to double major in engineering and music and graduate in 4 or 5 years. It might be possible to do it in 6 or 7 years. The OP’s daughter should look into the requirements of both majors, and see whether it might be better to drop the idea of a double major. I agree with mathmom about this.
My question would be WHY does she want a music major? Is it for enjoyment or does she have a career in mind that will require it? If it’s the former, spreading engineering over 5 years (assuming a 120 major requirement) should give her a fair amount of room to cover the music classes she’d like to take - if they don’t have prerequisites that are difficult to fit in. If it’s the latter, she’s going to have to plot it out and see if it’s even possible. Keep in mind that upper level classes in most majors are not as available during summer sessions as lower levels. So later summers may not have class options and she may be better off interning or something in that mode,.
For engineering, i would start with the standard freshman engineering schedule. You don’t want to overload nor do you want to get behind. I would probably start at about 15 credits.
@jerzmaster music at OU is a demanding major, how demanding may depend on your instrument. My D started with a music minor but found the amount of time required for practice, rehearsals, ensembles and performances was just too much in addition to her other classes. She has since dropped the music minor and changed to a double major in comp sci and meteorology with minors in math and German and found this much less time consuming.
DD is still taking private lessons on her instrument, it’s counted as a class so it’s cover under her scholarship and the class has a performance component but is much less time consuming. One thing to keep in mind is that the School of Music is diagonally across campus from the dorms so it takes a good amount of time to get there and back everyday to practice. She also found there were often conflicts with the many rehearsals and performances and other activities she’d rather be doing.
Another thing that surprised me was that AP Music Theory does not count for a class that meets the Gen Ed requirements for the Fine Arts requirement at OU.
Students who are interested in two areas often talk about double majoring…but always ask “Is it necessary?”
Do need a full degree? Is there a job you want to get that requires both? Or do you want to continue taking some music classes while pursuing an engineering degree?
Here are some replies/answers to questions posed to me:
@Sportsman88 I do not know much about the co-op program at OU. I did co-op assignments when I was an engineering student in the day and hope that my daughter will do the same.
@mathmom I certainly agree internships/co-ops are more important than catching up on classes during the Summer. I expect that my D would use the freshman summer session for study abroad and classes. After that, she should prepare herself for a potentially competitive job search by getting as much summer work experience as possible. All this also depends on applying and interviewing successfully for relevant summer work which can be competitive also.
@JustGraduate The second major is for enjoyment. She tells me her plans are to work as a chemical engineer and find other ways to continue her love of music after college.
@guineagirl96 I think it is a BA since it is not a conservatory. The requirements are just as you stated, 1 hour of voice lessons and a requirement to be in a choir/ensemble each semester. Many of the class requirements are music theory and musicology, but there are some requirements for foreign language diction, piano, recitals, opera, choral conducting, etc. I have no idea how much time these classes require outside of the lecture/professor time.
I was a Chemistry major eons ago (UW-Madison) and know how many lab hours (for how few credits) there will be. Not to worry. Labs are fun. She should go ahead and take what her engineering advisor suggests. She can handle the coursework required. She can add a music class initially and if it becomes too much she can always drop it. However, that extra class may be her stress reliever- an opportunity to do something totally different. Pushing limits is so much better than not trying and discovering later what could have been done. Good luck to her. My kind of person. Easier for women in science now than back in the day, although my honors gen chem prof’s wife was a prof and he was liberal minded.
@bopper It is not necessary for her degree or career. However, one difference I found between schools is how “open” some departments are about non-majors taking classes. At Tulane and Tulsa, both private schools, it seemed that all students could take music classes whether they declared a music major or not. At OU, you can take music for non-major classes. If you declare a minor, it opens up several more classes. To take the full list of courses in the music school, you must audition for and declare a major. This was actually one of the criteria that almost had my daughter attend Tulane or Tulsa instead of OU.
If she could just take music classes, I don’t really think she would be asking to double major in music. Choirs, piano and voice lessons are available to non-majors at OU…she just can’t take other music courses (music theory, musicology, language diction, etc.) that she wanted.
ENGL 1113 (3 on AP English may satisfy)
ENGL 1213 (5 on AP English may satisfy)
HIST 1483 or 1493 (4 on AP US history may satisfy)
Political Science 1113 (3 on AP US government may satisfy)
Social science elective (4 on AP economics or 3 on AP psychology may satisfy)
Artistic forms elective (some music courses may be used)
Western civilization elective (some music courses may be used)
Non-western civilization elective (some music courses may be used)
If she has applicable AP credit, she may gain additional schedule space to take more music electives instead of the specified general education courses.
@jerzmaster my D ended up doing what @bopper suggested. As long as you audition and are accepted into the school of music you aren’t restricted on the the classes you take.
I feel the need to clarify something in my earlier post. A “lighter load” did not mean take fewer credits. Rather, it was meant that freshmen should take some of their easier requirements first in an effort to bolster their GPAs. I took anywhere from 15-16 credits each semester and did graduate within four years.
The easy/hard definition is dependent on the student. Depends on ability and background knowledge. Typically the courses available to freshmen, mainly those without prerequisites, are “lighter” in depth/difficulty.