<p>hey guys</p>
<p>i'm from australia and quite unfamiliar with this whole college thing, have no idea whether I should even try for williams or not, since I know it's a top LAC. So would those of you who have been accepted into williams, or are applying, mind putting up your sat scores, academic achievements, ECs up for me to give me some sort of indication as to the standard of the applicant pool?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>click on the williams college link beside "text only" below your post... then go back to the rosters of applicants for the respective classes, you'll get what you need.</p>
<p>thanks i'll give it a try</p>
<p>are you an international student?
i've learned that the competition for the international student pool is quite stiff. but never give up on your dream school! anyone may have the qualities that williams looks for.</p>
<p>caramello, The typical Williams admit has excellent grades, excellent scores and excellent recommendations, writes a compelling essays and participates at an advanced level in one or two extra-curricular activities. </p>
<p>Basically, small liberal arts colleges like Williams focus on the whole applicant, not just the grades and scores, so while statistics ARE meaningful they are by no means the whole story. Strength in one of those areas can compensate for relative weakness in another. Intangibles like talent, character, life experience can play a big role in admissions decisions. </p>
<p>One guideline would be to compare your qualifications to other graduates from your school who went on to selective US colleges. </p>
<p>Williams is interested in recruiting and admitting international students, but spaces are limited so you have to offer something special to the Williams community. What makes this something a moving target, however, is that what they need to build a balanced class may change from year to year. </p>
<p>These websites may be helpful.
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/admission/apply_prepare.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/admission/apply_prepare.php</a>
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/admission/apply_foreign.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/admission/apply_foreign.php</a></p>
<p>wow thanks for the detailed reply. yes, i know it's not just marks, and ecs and stuff really count. they do here too, but in aus it's so much more academically focused - your uni admission is seriously based on a number - it's a cut off line, you either get in or you don't. and while people do care about ecs, you can dabble in a bit of everything and you'll be fine - no one expects you to be outstanding at any of it.</p>
<p>my main question is how good do your ecs have to be for williams? i know for ivies you need to be at national or international level, and williams seems to be of a similar calibre.</p>
<p>and my other question which i've asked on several different threads now but no one has answered is: if your achievements sound better than what they are in reality (like they just have fancy titles), should you clarify that in your application package? (not sure how you do that though) Or do you just write it down as it is and expect the admissions people to do their own research and find out for themselves?</p>
<p>national/interational ecs are not necessary if your scores are in the ballpark. What you do need to do is show dedication to one or two things (to show that you're not just "dabbling" in something because it'll look good on a college application). For example, for me my big selling point was music. I've been in pretty much every music ensemble at my school, and did a couple state and regional groups. I used music as a theme to tie my application together, so even though I didn't win any national awards, it showed commitment and passion for something. I think it also helped that Williams' music department is somewhat small.</p>
<p>same here. i sent in piano CD, but hadn't won any nat'l awards. if you show passion and good skill level, lack of awards won't hurt you.</p>
<p>thanks guys. that's really encouraging. i think i will try because there are so many things in the past which i've passed up on just cos i'd be good enough which now i know i could have done and would really help with this college thing. so i'll think seriously about this college thing.</p>
<p>but my other question still goes unanswered - if you know your ecs / awards sound better than they are in reality (cos they've got misleading fancy names), do you clarify that to adcoms in your applications? if so how? do they bother going and finding out what unfamiliar awards really mean?</p>
<p>to the first part: good choice! you'll always kick yourself for what you didn't do, and wonder if it would have made a difference (trust me on this one)</p>
<p>to the second: I'm not sure. I explained some of my ecs in the little explanation box on the common app online because the reality was more impressive than the name. Honestly, if you don't have to put something on your application that makes you look less amazing, don't do it. It's not like you're lying and saying you received something when you didn't. Chances are anyways that they've probably read an application in the past that lists the same awards, so they may already be aware of it.</p>
<p>caramello:</p>
<p>I used a lot of asterisks and scribbled explanations of my ECAs in my horrendously garbled, barely comprehensible handwriting all over the common app. I guess the Williams adcom doesnt frown upon untidiness, so you should make every effort to explain your ECAs. Also, you can email the adcom after turningin your application and explain them your ECAs (great idea if your handwriting is unintelligible like mine ...thank god for computers) in detail.</p>
<p>thanks for the advice. i just find the whole college process so complicated! here you take internal exams throughout your final year of school, sit 3 weeks of really major external exams, and then you get into uni based on one number - no consideration of ecs, no consideration of other awards. it's just how you do academically during this one year. so stupid if you ask me.</p>
<p>i'd love to be able to go overseas and really broaden my horizons</p>
<p>caramello, when I applied ED to WIlliams I frankly had just about NO hope of getting in...my SAT 1 scores were all in the 700s but nothing great...and my SAT was terrible...wayy below the regular SAT 2 score for people who are admitted. But i had loads of ECs...i didnt send any CDs (because I got delayed!!) but I sent in a list of achievements in drama and music with letters of recommendation...I also think my essay wasnt too bad...so its not all about scores, as many people had told me before I joined. My high school grades were very good (top 5 throughout) so maybe that helped.. I"m not sure if this post is any help but:) oh yeah, i also sent a resume enlisting all my ECs..and separate resumes for music and drama...i'm not sure if thats a good idea though...all i know is that i managed to get accepted..lol</p>
<p>carmello, it IS extremely complicated. I'd suggest that you compile an activities list or resume that gives some explanation and background to your EC's. You certainly don't want to misrepresent yourself, but at the same time if you don't present your qualifications and activities in a positive light, who will? Your application is your only chance to communicate why you're the kind of kid that Williams would want so you need to do a good job of getting your personality, character, talent, enthusiasm across in writing.</p>
<p>The good news about Williams and other LACs is that the admissions people really do read those explanations and recommendations and essays. They are very important in fleshing out your persona.</p>
<p>At small schools it's important that everyone pulls their weight in contributing to the campus community so if you have a talent or a skill this is not the time for modesty. I don't mean that you should hyper-inflate your qualifications or present yourself in an arrogant manner. Just make sure that your total package -- including recommendation, essays, resume and any other pertinent supplementary material -- gives a full picture of who you are.</p>
<p>ADDENDUM:
I just read more about you on your other thread. MUN/Debate and ballet are GREAT ECs for Williams. If youre really serious about ballet you should consider submitting supplementary material. This is from the Williams website:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Send a resume listing your training, experience, repertoire and honors received. Provide detail on your performance history, the styles and techniques you've studied, the dance companies of which you are a member and how long you have performed with them. Please note whether your study is year-round or seasonal. Also helpful, are the names of your private study/dance intensives instructors. You may include a short video or DVD that demonstrates your range of technical skills and or abilities as a choreographer. Please do not send a tape/DVD of a performance within a group, unless you are the choreographer.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Williams is somewhat contradictory. A lot of people know it for its sports reputation, but really it also has a very vibrant arts scene. There are three museums on or near campus and a new performing arts center. There are plenty of opportunities for dancers, actors, artists and musicians and people with these talents are actively recruited. </p>
<p>Debate is also a good EC because it implies a verbal/oral aptitude which is so important at a school with small classes where participation is essential.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it IS in the middle of nowhere. Actually Williamstown is a charming New England village surrounded by profoundly beautiful countryside, but its quite rural.</p>
<p>"The good news about Williams and other LACs is that the admissions people really do read those explanations and recommendations and essays."</p>
<p>Let me take this opportunity to say that I loooove the admissions staff at Williams. I had an informal, non evaluative interview with one of them when he was in my region, and he's the nicest guy imaginable. When I received my acceptance letter, it was personalized, talking about the ecs and interests I had focused on in my application. When I was at previews this spring, one of the admissions officers led a midnight "hike" around Williamstown. So I would second the above statement. The admissions office knows what they're doing.</p>
<p>At all of the seven lacs I visited I asked if I could send a resume which would expand on my honors, and activities. All of the admissions counselors said that was very helpful to them and none of them frowned on the idea. The applications do not give sufficient space to explain more esoteric activities and only a good resume can fill in the blanks.</p>
<p>thanks everyone for being so helpful! the problem with my ecs though is honestly speaking, i'm not really passionate about any of them. i really have a great time doing ballet and debating and i think they're wonderful activities, but that's about it. what i really am passionate about is literature. i could spend days on end reading books, then reading as many essays as I can find by literary critics, then thinking about it all for myself. Literary theory and analysis absolutely fascinates me, it's like a whole new universe that you can enter into. And I think it's so important that the world - and i'm not talking about a select few academics, but the world in general - never ever loses its appreciation for the arts, especially for literature and philosophy. </p>
<p>lol sorry for going off on a tangent. what i meant to say was that i'm not passionate about my ecs, what i am passionate about can't really be considered an ec (i'm not part of any literary club or anything like that) and therefore i can't demonstrate that kind of passion to anyone unless it's someone who knows me well. I mean, I'm undertaking a course at school which involves writing a 5000 word dissertation, i get really good grades in English and my teacher would probably write a brilliant recommendation for me, but that's about it.</p>
<p>I'm an intl as well, and what format should the resume for Ecs take? length?
how many Ecs would be"too many'?
would awards in another language besides English be okay ?
could I translate the award title?
any help would be great!</p>
<p>caramello,</p>
<p>I think it's great that you have a passion for literature. Have you ever done any literary research or sthin like that? If you did, you can send a research paper (or an abstract of your paper) to the adcom. THey greatly encourage this. I sent a paper on development economics and an admission officer asked me to send the paper to a professor of the Economics department (who was incidentally one of the best development economists in the world). Now that's Williams for you! The admission commitee is incredible and they really go through your application.
Also, try to convey the fact that you are passionate about literary analysis in you application. Maybe base your essay on your love for literature? </p>
<p>heppyjanezhang-</p>
<p>Awards in other languages besides english are perfectly fine. Just translate the stuff to english. Umm..the resume should not be too long -maybe maximum 2 A4 sized pages? Write and explain all the ECs you participated in and include all the awards you won(non academic).</p>
<p>Jane, you should get your translated copies certified true, probably by your school. As for the resume, yeah I've heard things about 2 pages being about right. Mine was three and I was still in. Just make sure its all high quality stuff.... I can't imagine anything being more annoying that having to read a 10 page resume filled with nothing but fluff.</p>