<p>Berkeley isn't Princeton, neither is it any other school in the nation. No one is forcing you to come to Berkeley, if you don't like it then find the another university that is right for you.</p>
<p>That sounds harsh, but that is just the way things are.</p>
<p>Yups. If Princeton is that good, it shows how much of a disparity there is between berky and Stanford, which is even better. Not to mention Harvard.</p>
<p>"If Princeton is that good, . . . "</p>
<p>What do you mean by that good/better? In what area is the disparity? Besides taking shots at Berkeley, was there a purpose to your post? Perhaps more developed and thought out posts would be worthwhile instead of mere pot-shots.</p>
<p>"I don't get this at all. Why should you have to fight so darn hard for scarce opportunities?"</p>
<p>What kind of opportunities are we talking about here? </p>
<p>Student clubs and activities - well, you would have to be an incapable human being not to notice the hundreds of student organizations that exist on the Berkeley campus. The great part about them, is that they're open to everyone. But yes, you're right, you do have to put a small amount of effort into joining one. For example, putting on a clean tee shirt, and walking yourself down to the first club meeting. Left foot, right foot, repeat. I don't know how this can be seen as fighting for an opportunity, unless you expect to be wheeled around in a stroller to all your club meetings. In my opinion, the opportunities are pretty much shoved in your face; just take a walk through Sproul plaza and you'll be bombarded with flyers about every type of club under the sun. I visited a friend of mine (already attending cal) prior to even applying and I ended up with a slew of blue, yellow, green, and rainbow slips of paper literally spilling out of my purse after my first fifteen minutes on campus.</p>
<p>Jobs and Internships - there are tons. I have never heard of an easier process of applying for jobs/internships and actually getting them. I thought this would be a more difficult process at a university like Cal, but students just fill out applications and receive employment like it's no big deal. Paid and unpaid internships are plentiful - I signed up for the mailing list to receive information about research opportunities in my department and I already receive e-mail encouraging me to apply for positions - and I start Berkeley this fall.</p>
<p>So, all in all, I don't really understand the gold mining analogy. Take into consideration that many HYP students (while not all) already have a considerable amount of gold in their pockets - and they're coming into a school that has a great amount of money to provide these students with a comfortable and heavily accommodating lifestyle. Personally, for a public school, I think Berkeley has a lot to offer their students. But I also believe in determination and independence. Sure, you probably have to dig a little deeper to find what you're looking for at a huge public university like UC Berkeley, but in the end, it's the journey to the top that really makes it all worth while.</p>
<p><3,</p>
<p>Izzie Bear</p>
<p>Berkeley offers tons of stuff to many people, but the people who walk away empty-handed or disappointed is disturbingly high in my opinion. It just makes me feel bad to see people who get annoyed or disappointed and disenchanted by the university. And I know a lot. I like Cal for what it is, but I know that it could be so much more if it would just offer just a bit more to the students, rather than plunking you in Welcome Week and say: "Okay, now go out and be great!" 17, 18, and 19 year olds need a lot more guidance than that. I almost ended up being one of those "Empty-Handed" people after my first year because of my thoroughly negative experience. That's right, I was ready to up and quit. And to put it into perspective how much I hated it: The Army/US Military seemed like a good opportunity at the time. <em>mutters</em> I was lost, confused, tried to get help and got snubbed and told to deal with it and grew increasingly angry and resentful -- especially considering I was the one making the effort to put myself out there. I just had incredibly poor luck.</p>
<p>I am not going to **** on the quality of the education and the opportunities, but I think oftentimes, it is too difficult to get involved in many things, simply because of 1. The Workload and 2. The often-times standoffish attitude of the people behind the opportunities. It's gotten better since I've arrived, however.</p>
<p>To many people, it probably just feels like that a lot of opportunities are given to a select few and the rest of us are never really enlightened to them or have to seize them in the first two or three days. But perhaps it's better that way, I'll never be sure. <em>chuckles</em> But it's all worth it in the end.</p>
<p>I do agree with what you're saying. The Berkeley experience is probably very different for everyone, but I tend to believe that a vast amount of great opportunities are there for the taking. It just depends on your initiative, willingness, and the other facets of your life that either support or prevent you from being heavily involved.</p>
<p>In my opinion, I think it's a good thing to cut the cord in college. While 17, 18, and 19 year old students may have a lot to learn, this is most definitely the time to do it. If not now, when? </p>
<p>Hm...I know I'm bound to meet some stand-offish students at Cal. But the weird thing is, I have yet to meet one. I visited Berkeley with the idea that all the students would be anti-social and distant, but I was pleasantly surprised. </p>
<p>Ah well, we will see what happens. Two more months 'till liftoff.</p>
<p><3,</p>
<p>Izzie Bear</p>
<p>Yeah, I'm not really sure what these "opportunities" are that Cal doesn't offer, but as far as the friendliness of the people behind the counters, I can vouch for andrew's comments about it being a bit iffy. Like I said, I'm not sure what the issue is, but if you want to get connected to people who share a few common interests, I'd suggest taking a decal class. They are generally very laid back and you wont have to worry about too much work or about GPAs. Since there aren't any "adults" hanging around and keeping everyone nervous, you really get to have some fun and interact much more than you normally would with your classmates. If that's not your cup of tea you can always join or start a club that interests you. You can also try to get your hands on a fake ID and hangout at the lair or Raleighs after a Football or Rugby game, which is a very interesting experience.</p>
<p>I guess it just depends on which clubs and organizations you want to join forces with. You guys know better than me, of course.</p>
<p>Yeah...I've looked at some of the DeCal classes that have been offered in previous terms, and they look like a lot of fun. I'll probably have to take one this semester, if it at all possible. I think I'll want something a little more kick back then heavy english literature to keep me sane all semester long. Not to say that I'm an unhappy english major...heh.</p>
<p><3,</p>
<p>Izzie Bear</p>
<p>In some ways the students who get into (or, these days, are good enough to be able to hold a lottery ticket for getting into) Princeton and similar schools are the ones who would do best at Berkeley, and therefore need Princeton the least. Oh the irony.</p>
<p>Cal doesn't "not" offer opportunities, it's just hard to get into them.</p>
<p>i thought the thread was more about calming scared froshies who already want to go to cal but are afraid of its impersonal reputation. to that, i'd have to repeat that it really isn't all that hard. you just have to have some guts.</p>
<p>as for the princeton comparison... why would you choose the tougher road? you won't, unless there's a reason to do so. as an engineer, i would never choose princeton (or almost any other college) over berkeley because there are more opportunities for me here (although i'm sure some will disagree). for others, cal is cheaper, has a reputation for a crazy mix of people, etc. still, we all know that most people would choose princeton. other small, private colleges? who knows. every college is different and every prospective student is different. you weigh the positives and negatives and make a decision. i personally think the cal, princeton comparison is pointless.</p>
<p><strong>edit</strong></p>
<p>err, didn't read rooster's post. not having opportunities thrown in front of you isn't a good thing. the fact that it makes you tougher makes it slightly better. but berkeley still has a ton of stuff to take advantage of, some stuff a lot of other schools don't have.</p>
<p>ive jus joined CC and am rather amused by the comparisions ... XYZ vs Berkeley...</p>
<p>1)how does it matter if, for example, Harvard is 'better' than Berkeley. Doesn't what you plannin to study matter more.
For example, i wanna do EECS... pretty much everybody (students, ppl recruiting) thinks taht Berkeley is 'better' than HYP...similar to M & S
Sure, that in a large proprtion of majors, HYP is superior to Berkeley, in that case, join HYP , why the fuss over here?</p>
<p>2)Princeton has 4700 undergrads, Stanford has 6500, and Berkeley , 22800 undergrads...
Most of the negatives cited about Berkeley are a direct consequence of its size.
Even if Berkeley wanted to improve its undergrad program (so taht it became more like Stanford's .. I read this on one of the threads ).. theres not much it could do, unless it drastically reduces its size.. which is not very feasible.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, they're all very different schools (okay bad Cliche!)</p>
<p>Indeed. Berkeley, in the end is what you make of it -- but you have to be a self-starter and a go-getter and it makes life kind of hard for many many kids who decide to go there because of the name and nothing else. But looking at the conviction that some of the incoming froshes have -- they'll be fine. And yes, Cal does toughen you up, but in many ways, I feel it is the school of hard knocks and it happens too soon. A lot of kids come from high schools where they are top of their class and had everything gifted to them, then they are thrown into this harsh reality. I just wish there was something to make the transition easier. </p>
<p>And Cal could probably improve it's UG experience by becoming -even- more selective and reducing its class sizes. (Literal classes (08, 09, etc., not the course sizes) That's the only solution I can come up with right now. I'll let you know if I think of a better solution beyond the idealized "Let's Throw More Money At It" Solution.</p>
<p>incoming class sizes will continue to increase for all the UC's, according to the governator.</p>
<p>.......joyous</p>
<p>It was well known by Asian Americans in southern California in the 1990's that the only schools worth leaving California for was Harvard and Yale for social science majors. Princeton had a bad reputation for being a racist institution in the 1980's, so for AA's it was considered to be more important not to focus on class size, but at an environment where it is more important to develop mentally without limits. Which is not possible in a racist environment. </p>
<p>Anyways, I believe that once the horrible professor access at Ivies is more known, the debate will shift to mental development, as it becomes more to achieve breakthroughs in stagnant society, which Berkeley does extremely well in.</p>
<p>Yay. It makes me feel better by the day that I chose Berkeley over San Diego (b/c of bioengineering major).</p>
<p>You mean Berkeley professors are more readily accessible than those of ivies?</p>
<p>West Side is back.</p>
<p>does Berkely do EA or ED? ne1 know??
thanks</p>