<p>Maguo, like I said, only 5 universities are definitely top 10. After those 5, you probably have 10-15 universities than can only make a case for it. Their case will make sense to some and not so much sense to others and how much sense it makes depends purely on individual perception.</p>
<p>Something important to keep in mind--</p>
<p>The rankings people reference are a little bogus. What really is the dividing line between the top schools is the reputation. The University of Michigan has a better reputation with employers nationally and internationally than many schools that US News and World Report may rank higher, such as Wash U, Rice, Notre Dame, Emory, Vanderbuilt, Carnegie Mellon, UCLA, UVA and Caltech. These are all excellent schools, don't get me wrong, but Michigan is just more known and revered. Of course, a lot of it depends on what you want to do, I've been told by many people how Michigan is so well known and respected internationally, whereas many people haven't even heard of some of the other schools I mentioned above. The same can be said with a lot of the elite liberal arts schools, unfortunately. And with such a large student body, there are many alumni in high places--the network is amazing. Of course, it all depends on what you want to go and the type of school you want to go to. Michigan also has a tremendous amount of resources that other elite schools do not have. The student body is enormous, but so is its endowment.</p>
<p>danima1s, you make a couple of good points. </p>
<p>Definitely, in the international arena, Michigan is one of the top 10 US universities. It is very popular among Europe's and Asia's educated elites. In Germany, Michigan, Cornell and Stanford are revered because they are the main US universities to follow the German system (Michigan was the first university to do so). Most US universities follow the British system of education. In Japan, Michigan is very highly respected. The first American to represent the US in Japan and China was James Angell (University of Michigan president), all the way back in the 1870s, when China and Japan were both closed to much of the World. Since then, Japan and Michigan have worked closely together.</p>
<p>Furthermore, many people don't realize this, but for state universities to generate as much income as private universities, they only need half of their endowment. That's because state universities get hundreds of millions of $$$ from the state and federal governments. So Michigan's endowment of $5 billion goes further than Columbia's endowment of $5 billion.</p>
<p>
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only 5 universities are definitely top 10. After those 5, you probably have 10-15 universities than can only make a case for it. Their case will make sense to some and not so much sense to others and how much sense it makes depends purely on individual perception.
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Wow, we finally agree on something. Except I think there are 6 universities that are definitely top 10: Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Caltech.</p>
<p>UM is a fantastic school. The sheer strength of the academics here is very impressive. The undergrad experience here is significantly different from that of the Ivies or even private schools like Georgetown or Tufts. A significantly higher degree of self-sufficiency is required for you to get the help or attention you need. I feel overall that that is very good in building character but it is annoying when you see Ivy-bound friends have research projects drop into their laps and fabulous advising. Also, undergrad classes tend to be extremely hard in order to weed students out because of the number of students. We're overall a very happy bunch here but come here prepared to work very hard.</p>
<p>Depends on the Ivy/private school MichWoman. Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, MIT and Penn actually have similar quality advising and require as much initiative on part of the undergrads to seek out professor attention. On the other hand, Ivies/privates like Brown, Dartmouth, Duke, Princeton, Vanderbilt, Washington University and Yale and many LACs indeed have more accessibly faculties and better advising.</p>
<p>I've heard that from undergrads, Michwoman--they talk about how being at Michigan teaches valuable life lessons in terms of looking out for yourself and seeking opportunities. I heard seniors say things like "After getting through Michigan, I know I can handle anything." I know that would be a big turnoff to some people, and it sounds like a downside to Michigan. But a lot of students seem to be able to turn it around and make it into a positive (in terms of learning how to make your own way, make your own opportunities, etc.) Self-suffiency (your word) is an excellent way to put it.</p>
<p>An FWIW, I think this also varies--some departments and schools seem to have a knack for looking out for their students, and those students probably have a very different impression of the U!</p>
<p>By the way Hoedown, employers tend to like Michigan students for that very reason. Michigan students tend to be self-starters and the real world loves that.</p>
<p>Alexandre, what did you mean when you said that Michigan's SAT range is lower because of the "way it reports it"? Why wouldn't they report it the way other schools do?</p>
<p>gusgooz1,</p>
<p>Many of the top privates report the best combined score in multiple sittings. Michigan only reports the best score in one sitting.</p>
<p>barrons - be careful of stereotypes. I am a Duke grad - product of an unemployed single mother - four year college was not an option but for somehow becoming a national champion in athletics in high school and getting an athletic scholarship. Went through four years of Duke being decidedly poor but not feeling out of it because the big discriminator there is to be smart and care about schoolwork, which I somehow did. I found others like me as well - poor but appreciative of the opportunity. Duke's education is great - went to a Tier 1 law school thereafter - top of my class - law review editor - and it is frankly due to the critical education I received in the honors program at Duke. The stereoptypes just don't pass muster from my experience. Far from making me spoiled, Duke made me intellectually and spiritually tougher. I owe Duke for fulfilling their end of the bargain. </p>
<p>And my daughter? She is going to Michigan, and I could not be happier. Lucky enought to be a Shipman recipient, but even if she was not, she would have gone there. It has what she wants. I think point to be made is to focus and take advantage of what an institution has no matter where you go. To this end, I think Duke is a bit "riskier" than Michigan because while it has excellent programs, if a student changes his/her mind on a course of study there is not the choice and breadth of programs that Michigan offers. By way of example, a student who longer wants to be an engineer at Duke isn't going to be a business major - they don't have one (the reason why econ is popular). At either place, though, the focus ought to be what one can accomplish - and the stereotypes just don't add much and frankly are inaccurate.</p>
<p>great response mam1959 :]</p>