<p>"I took three English courses at my previous college and they only required a small amount of reading."
guess you lucked out. what were those courses? I only ask because a course on, say, creative nonfiction writing is going to have less required reading than a course on, say, Thomas Hardy and Victorian-era novelists.</p>
<p>"like I said the first time - false. period."
have you been to every school that is of Brown's tier? no? pretty sure a school like columbia or duke would have a tough workload just like Brown's. different in nature? sure. but the amount of time and effort that has to go into them won't vary greatly. the point is you have to work at a school on this level. and since the OP is asking about how hard Brown is, in reference to other Ivies...<br>
I'll admit that I was over-generalizing when I initially said "most colleges or universities," because I meant on the level of Brown, which wasn't clear. So, my B on that.</p>
<p>"I'm not an English major. does this apply to me?"
sure it does. english courses are included in the traditional humanities. just because you aren't majoring in english doesn't mean you aren't going to be taking any english courses. regardless, I was using that department as an example because it's what I've looked into.</p>
<p>"Okay, get this: I have been in college for 2.5 years already. I have had a myriad of teachers. The style here at Brown is different. I talked to a dean here about it and she agreed that Brown does things differently. Have you been to another college for a couple of years? No?"
gee great, now we'll settle this with condescending language! that's super productive. fine, I get your point that the way Brown works is different from other schools, I wasn't disagreeing in any way, because I knew that. I was just saying that you'll also encounter differences in teaching styles between the professors, and NOT JUST between different schools. Essentially pointing out the obvious part missing in your obvious observation.</p>
<p>-The open curriculum will be the best or worst thing about your academic experience.
-Many of my classes have been independent studies and experiences I will treasure for quite a while and I have no intentions of being an academic. Prior to the horror of Banner, it was quite easy to set these courses up. I shed no tears for being close to graduation in that regard.
- You will work hard and you will struggle
- The independent concentration process is totally unacceptable and designed to prevent students from succeeding in their pursuit of creating one. Most of my worst experiences have come from dealing with U-Hall.</p>
<p>Negru,
It seems you think your predictions about Brown have come true. Perhaps Werner was correct in suggesting that MIT &Caltech would have been better choices for you. But, since you're already at Brown, maybe you can register for some higher level (grad level?) classes to challenge yourself. You might look for a Physics research project. Perhaps a class in something other than physics or math would be stimulating. </p>
<p>02-18-2007, 06:28 PM<br>
negru </p>
<p>Although I have a few more months before actually attending Brown myself, most of my friends are very dissatisfied with the academic rigor there (and Princeton's as well). That is because, unlike our highschool here, focus is put on weaker students - helping them understand the classes instead of going over with the top ones. I myself always wanted to study at the highest possible level (even more so if the level was above me)...that's why I wanted to study at Ivies. Now I hear all my former peers feel like being surrounded by..idiots. And what's worse, teachers make them feel like it's ok to be dumb. </p>
<p>werner5482 responded:
Negru- sounds like you would have been a better fit at Cal Tech where it is all incredibly bright students (2/3 with above 1500 SATs compared to 1/3 at Brown) but it is more or less sink or swim. You wouldn't need to spend time helping the weaker students since those 10% will end up dropping out anyway (compared to an average of 4 or 5% for the Ivy league and MIT).</p>
<p>Well anyway this wasn't supposed to my official complaining thread :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
That is likely to be a recommendation of the task force.
[/quote]
Getting a nice complete detailed syllabus, along with textbooks used, would be a HUGE improvement to..everything. And it's really not that hard to do. I mean seriously, instead of wasting time and money on developing a retarded mini-farm at perkins, they could organize and pay some people to clear all the crap up. Match banner and mocha to the actual real life courses and classes. 2 of my courses are at different times than what banner says. Several courses have no description AT ALL, anywhere. No grad courses have any description on mocha. The prerequisites randomly appear in some places and not in others. Not to mention that not all courses appear everywhere. It's a total mess.
Anyway, it's not about this either here</p>
<p>And yes I know that in this regard mit or whatever would've been better, but it's beyond the point. This doesn't mean that brown can't be just as good and hardcore as mit or caltech. Being Brown, it should even go beyond: offering you the option of how hardcore or laidback you want to be, am I not right? And as much as I'd want to take advanced courses, I can't take quantum field theory in my freshman year. I do need to go through the basics (well if you can call quantum mechanics basic), but this doesn't mean that the basics should be simple. And you can't take too advanced courses anyway, because you need really advanced math for them. Which is not offered when you need it. That's the problem, you are basically stuck at some semi-intro level, in some areas, while you go full speed in others. This is very very imbalanced, mostly because the lack of options. You either start at the bottom like everyone else, and go as the system is planed, or you are screwed. In physics you can't skip courses, they are tied together. Solutions would be simple, if anybody wanted them. Make advanced sections for courses. How hard would that be? engn 3 has such a thing for example. Or whatever. Make at least one of the homework problems impossibly difficult, without giving away the answer for free at the problem session, so who is really up for it will stand out, get a bonus, instead of getting max like everyone else, and worrying on the final exam not to screw up a number, to get screwed completely.
This system isn't promoting any elitism at all. And don't start with the but why do you need to compare to others crap. Of course you do, if you didn't, you'd just go in the woods your whole life and be content with what you are...only because you have no idea at what level others are -> ignorance
And it's weird, cause I thought you people should be teaching us ex-communists about elitism, competition, and ambition. You have a freedom here to be better than the rest, but don't take advantage of it. You even look down upon it. Coming from a country where not long ago, if you were too good, or too smart, you would be replaced or sent to jail, because of your unequal skills and danger posed to the communist system, where all must be the same, and here I hear, oh don't worry, just enjoy yourself, don't care, whatever your level is, it's ok, don't worry. It's like some sort of inverted communism, but just as worse. One told you be the same, the other don't try to be different, but if you are..don't worry, we'''ll love you anyway. A little more liberal communism tho.
Anyway enough ******** :)</p>
<p>I have a Junior at Brown who went to a very good private school, had 6 AP classes, including CalcBC, Bio, Eng, Flang and HIST, 1500 SAT. Finds the coursework quite challenging, but often takes too many classes (5) in addition to other responsibilities. I have never heard of anyone she knows who actually say they found it easy, but I only know a handful of students. All her friends work incredibly hard and are pretty overscheduled, esp her. Oh, DD says that as long as you attend a foreign language class that you will learn it because they have fantastic programs for this. But fgn lang is inherently difficult anyways isn't it?</p>
<p>Negru needs to meet with some profs and grad students to talk about his issues. It is pretty easy to find someone to let you work on his research or into his advanced classes. I hesitate to suggest the math for physics majors course as it might be too easy for him, but take a look in case it gets you the math you need to correct 'the imbalance.'</p>
I fail to see the "freedom" of choosing courses, when you need signatures from deans and teachers in order to take a stupid 8th grade level course. They all expect you to be just as stupid as everyone else, and to just take the easiest courses. Word of advice, if you feel that you want to do more than "expected" don't ever listen to advisors or teachers. The advisor won't like you taking harder courses, cause you may get bad grades, and then he takes the blame, and the profs usually have no idea besides what they do in their course.
</p>
<p>That's strange negru because I'm taking two sophomore level courses and I know a person who's taking a junior level course in CS and I didn't hear of anyone requiring any permissions or signatures or anything except from the professor.</p>
<p>I dont know, I haven't been to other ivies (some people on this board like to act like they've attended either brown, other ivies, or both), but I would wager from statistics that it is similar to inflation at yale and harvard. I know princeton is trying to crack down. cornell is notorious for deflation...hotel management school aside :)</p>
<p>Well, I do not think it is easy to get an A. I recently got a 93 in one of my classes and it happened to be one of the highest grades given. My attitude about grades is really changing for good.</p>
<p>jeeezus, bobmallet1. chill the **ck out of yourself. i'll tell you this, if you're smart (or hard-working) enough, you shouldn't worry about grade inflation anyway -- i think it will be enough to warrant an A.</p>
<p>negru, did you ever think that the person who asked about getting it explained at a 6th grade level was joking? Not that they didn't understand, but don't take it so seriously that they said "6th grade level"</p>
<p>And I just really disagree with you fundamentally about the help everyone vs. sink or swim attitudes to learning. the help everyone attitude doesn't inhibit those who are swimming, unless they are too afraid or won't seek out opportunity. There's always a higher level class to take, epecially at Brown. But sink or swim just leaves so many people with great potential in the dust. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I very much disagree.</p>
<p>No she wasn't joking. I can tell this from the other questions she was asking.</p>
<p>And I fail to see what great potential resides in a person who needs 6th grade level words to understand an obvious concept. Not even a concept, what am I talking about, just a simple definition. For some reason I highly doubt she'll become a great scientist, if she has issues of this kind at this age. Anyway</p>
<p>Sink or swim is the way nature works. We're not doing anyone any good by helping the people drowning, that is my opinion at least. So good students have an opportunity to take harder classes? Maybe weaker students should take the weaker classes instead?</p>
<p>It's all about what you want out of this whole thing. I want a very few very good. If you want very many very mediocre, that's just a difference in purposes then. In my view, there's no use in lowering the level just to make the weaker feel like they actually are good. When they obviously suck. If they suck, they should know it, and do something about it. It would be fairer to them as well. So they won't be so shocked when they get out in the real world.</p>
<p>For example, while in highschool, in a class with 4 national math team members, I was always very aware how much I actually suck at math, and how little I know compared to them. Well surprise, when I came here, I suddenly feel like a math genius. And this is not good.</p>
<p>who are you, malthus?<br>
because it posits the notion of "take all and screw the rest," essentially stripping away any sort of moral teaching that humanity has seen. jeez, it's in the foundations of the country (and republican democracy in general). what happened to civic duty?<br>
and i'm no religious person, but i'm pretty sure most religious texts include excerpts dealing with the importance of humanitarianism, and how you should treat "thy neighbor." </p>
<p>and yes, social inequality is bad in some ways, but its also unavoidable. the difference is, you can stop being a selfish prick on your own.</p>