<p>My son was accepted to pre-engineering. Right now, UW Madison is his first choice school. We will have to pay OOS tuition and we will have 2 in college at the same time. Ugh! How hard is it to graduate with an engineering degree from UW in 4 yrs. He will have quite a few AP units, but I have heard that it sometimes is hard to get into the classes you need to graduate.</p>
<p>I cannot speak to engineering, as my son is an economics major. However, he will have no problem graduating in 4 years. Sometimes class sign up gets a bit dicey, as the day he can sign up many of the classes he wants are filled. Also, Wisconsin fustratingly doesn’t have a wait list. However, slots for classes open up the first fews days of the semester as kids change classes, and you can also go to professors for overrides. By the end of the first week of the semester, my son always had a set of classes he was pleased with.</p>
<p>Most OOS kids DO graduate in 4 years. Not a problem if you stick to one major.</p>
<p>Thank you for your replies. That is very helpful to know because being able to graduate in 4 years is a huge consideration.</p>
<p>Most eng students do need at least one summer because of the tougher requirements and internships/co-ops. But the overall average for OOS is actually under 4 years as so many have all those credits on entry. If he has a semster’s worth of credits or more he should be fine.
They are adding faculty to avoid the course bottenecks.</p>
<p>[Chancellor</a> announces first Madison Initiative awards (Nov. 6, 2009)](<a href=“http://www.news.wisc.edu/17338]Chancellor”>Chancellor announces first Madison Initiative awards)</p>
<p>Having AP credits is a big plus when it comes time to register for second semester (and later). Registration goes in order of credits and those who are “ahead” have little trouble getting into the classes they want.</p>
<p>My son and I attended the info session at College of Engineering this summer and were clearly told to expect 4.5 to 5 years. In the booklet they gave us, Information for Prospective Students, there is a bar chart on p. 25 which shows that as of 2007-2008 only 26% of COE students finished in 8 semesters or fewer. 64% needed 9 or 10 and 10% needed 11 or more! In the sidebar, it reads “The vast majority of Engineering students require 9 - 10 semesters to complete their degree. This is because many students feel that doing well in their engineering coursework is more important than finishing one or two semesters sooner.”</p>
<p>Right.</p>
<p>And no, this is NOT attributed to co-ops or internships.</p>
<p>As for your son’s AP, please double check COE’s acceptance of his specific credits for their specific requirements. Read the fine print to make sure he’ll really be able to skip those classes. Hopefully he can whittle off a semester.</p>
<p>FYI—</p>
<p>One downside to having a bunch of AP hours for 2nd semester freshmen, is that those credits will categorize you as a sophomore, thus when enrolling, it blocks the student from signing up for ‘freshman only’ classes. This happened to my D last night.</p>
<p>She did EMail the professor & her advisor, and I trust the block will be lifted, but I’m staying out of it. In MY day, we just ran around like rats from table to table!</p>
<p>There’s a lot to think about. I’m sure many students admitted to UW have a lot of ap units but still need some introductory/freshman type classes to be admitted to thier major. We will have to see if we can get in touch with an academic advisor for the engineering department. We have to figure this out because the 5 year plan is definately not in our budget.</p>
<p>jnm123, thanks for that excellent point! </p>
<p>CalMom05, I definitely recommend that phone call. Another question to ask is the acceptance rate for your son’s program of interest. As you probably know, you apply for entry into ME, BME etc as a sophomore and that acceptance is not guaranteed. I don’t believe the large programs like ME have serious bottlenecks, but for BME they are currently accepting only about 1 of 3 kids who apply. The other two go another semester and try again. Not all prospective BMEs eventually make it. My son is a marginal UW candidate and I was very concerned about this additonal pressure, so we’re looking at other schools with direct-entry and 4 year programs, such as Marquette and Iowa. Your son may well be a better student and if he’s after one of the bigger programs may have no problem, but it’s another of those fine-print things to be aware of. Our ultimate conclusion from this is that while UW’s engineering program is well-regarded, there appear to be capacity issues.</p>
<p>As for the $$ part, you might look at co-oping, which will definitely add to his time in school but will pay him decent salaries of about $2500-$3000/mo to work full time for one or more semesters. And I believe this experience is now a resume must-have when job seeking.</p>
<p>Thanks Beastman. Luckily, he intersted in EE or ME. When we speak with the advisor, we will ask if they expect any bottlenecks in those majors. Although he is a strong student, I am sure that most kids in pre-engineering at UW are strong students as well. Thanks for mentioning the co-op option. It would be great to get the work experience and the money.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind the following issue… some of my daughter’s classmates from high school attend UW and are running into problems with having earned a lot of AP credits (anywhere from 30 to 42 - our high school offers a very challenging curriculum; they graduate a lot of very high achievers). This locks them out of the freshmen only classes for spring semester as has already been mentioned, and they can’t get into the busines school, engineering school, etc. classes that would normally be next in the course sequence for the degree they’re interested in pursuing becaue they’ve not yet been admitted into those respective schools and the classes are already filled/closed with students already in those schools.</p>
<p>In other words, UW is not structured to support freshmen students entering with more than a semester’s worth (more than 12-15) of AP credits. Those high achieving students are kind of stuck in “No Man’s Land” after their 1st semester and before they’re admitted to the UW school from which they wish to pursue their degree, pretty much wasting at least one semester at ~$17,500 per semester for an OOS student.</p>
<p>Make sure you’re aware of this problem before any attendance decisions are made. Caveat emptor!</p>
<p>Beastman-Have you considered U of Illinois. They also have a direct admit engineering program and a good one at that.</p>
<p>Jiffsmom, that’s an interesting and troubling issue. I will pursue this at the highest levels at UW. It should be an easy fix. My next on campus meeting is in the Spring so I can’t do much until then except write the L&S dean.</p>
<p>@CalMom05:</p>
<p>I can speak for this issue here, as I’m a pre-engineering student who just started this fall. I have 15 AP credits that count for my engineering degree and let me tell you, its actually a bit harder if you’re ahead of the other freshmen. Why? Well, next semester enrollment is based on your credit load, and if you have 15 AP credits + 15 first-semester credits, you’re way ahead of the other pre-engineering freshmen and you get to enroll about 4-5 days earlier than them. The downside is that the classes you will be enrolling in are most likely advanced courses that sophomores, juniors and seniors take (because you’ve most likely completed the general freshmen courses through AP exams). And of course, they have a lot more credits than you, so they fill up those classes before you and you’re locked out. </p>
<p>For example, there’s a lot more sophomores in Calc III than an entering freshman, so its highly unlikely that you’ll get a spot as a freshman because their early-enrollment (thanks to their credits) gets them in quicker than you. And even if you do get a spot, you will not get the class at the time you want, or the professor you want because the good ones are taken up right away. This isn’t that much of an issue, but for me it is (I hate having 7:45 AM classes four days a week…and 6-9 PM labs…); also, a lot of people prefer not to have power lectures (which are two 75-min lecs instead of three 50-min lecs a week), but thats what you’ll get if you enroll late (if you’re lucky).</p>
<p>JiffsMom is correct aswell, I know people who have 21-22 AP credits and are basically wasting next semester because they can’t get admitted to their school of choice as freshmen, thanks to the sophomores and juniors who get preference over the them.</p>
<p>And yes barrons, if you can address this, it would be greatly appreciated because a lot of people here are pretty frustrated by this system.</p>
<p>OMG! Sorry to derail this thread, but this has just put me in a complete panic! My 1st semester freshman has just had a regisration problem similar to what jnm mentioned. As required, he submitted all materials to UW before his OOS matriculation. He has several AP credits and his school offers “dual-enrollment” with the local community college. These were for hs classes he took AT his high school - and, in our opinion, they were not all that rigorous. Regardless, we submitted everything and he was awarded something like 52 credits! Only a few of these actually counted as more than “general” credits at UW - I believe he got direct credit (exact comparable class at UW) for Calc, Stats and a Poli Sci. He is very much a freshman in terms of his abilities and development! By the end of this sememster he will be considered a JUNIOR, and was considered as such for Spring 2010 registration, although he will have met VERY few of his gen ed requirments and isn’t even 100% sure what he wants to major in. Again, he is a FIRST semester freshman who is 18. We are from VA so very far away and don’t know anyone else at UW so hadn’t even heard these things from others in general conversation. Wow, this is the first time I have felt so far from him or felt he was really “out of the loop.” </p>
<p>We have been a bit surprised by some of his registration troubles, but he has taken it in stride and has been fairly successful in getting “permission” to access registration for things such as his Eng 100 Freshman Writing class and a couple of other “lower level” courses. He is absolutely NOT ready to be taking higher level courses, especially in areas much different from his given credits. He was told fairly curtly and bluntly by one of the depts (I think Anthropolgy - by phone) that he was not elegible to register for some sort of intro which would have also covered his ethnic studies requirment, and happened to be a class he is interested in, just to be able to learn about something new, and we encouraged him to explore. He found something else, but hopefully would have gotten permission had he pursued this and explained in person. </p>
<p>HOWEVER, my real panic comes from Jiff’s moms comment - over this semester he has developed an interest in applying to the business school - he has spent his fall and spring planning around taking the FRESHMAN pre-business requirements such as Psych 202, Econ 101, etc… As far as I know, his Cross-college advisor hasn’t mentioned any issue regarding this - no warning, etc… His plan was to apply in the Spring as a SOPHOMORE admit competing with all the other freshman to be in the new and, and as of now, empty new sophomore business class - he has NO classes or knowledge or experience that would make him other than that going into any major. It still looks like he will need a full 4 years to graduate given his interests and relative lack of “value” of the credits he carried in. We are fine with that. In fact, he would NEVER have even accepted credits (although I don’t think we had a choice unless we didn’t submit his dual enroll paperwork which we thought was simply required) as very little of it seemed either rigorous enough or applicable to his newer interests in business, environmental studies, etc… </p>
<p>Yikes - now what?! Who should he speak to? Where does he go for advice and assistance? He has spoken several times to someone in cross college advising as undecided freshman are instructed to do, BUT it seems like he has not gotten good guidance (OR not been clear at all about what the deal is). Can he request his credits be “ungranted?” Get exemptions or clearance of some sort? Not even sure what to ask for or how to proceed. Please help - any advice welcome.</p>
<p>Given the number of complaints/issues I am contacting people at UW immediately. I’ll keep you posted.</p>
<p>Thanks, Barrons!! </p>
<p>By the way, he (and we) were happy with the credits in that we thought they would give him some flexibility and allow additional learning opportunities.
We were pleased with the credits in that they could give him some “breathing room” to take 12-14 credits per semester his freshman year, allow him to take some classes “just for the sake of learning” like philosophy, art history, or anthropology even if they were not in his major (we are big believers in a solid liberal arts education), make a semester abroad easier to plan or fit in, or allow him to earn a certificate (UW’s version of a “minor”) in an additional area of study. We did not ever intend the credits to replace a full 4 years of college learning or experience nor did we want to “rush” him or push him ahead - he is bright, but not “uber-gifted” or interested soley in high level academia.</p>
<p>Thanks Barron. Please let us know what you find out. My son will also have many units, but only a very few related to his major and he will need the intro physics, computer science, and perhaps chemistry course (depending upon whether he scores high enough on the ap chem test this year). We simply can’t financially afford to have him waste a semester, paying OOS tuition, without working toward his major. I know with the competitive admissions environment these days, there must be many students with many ap units. They must have a way to address this problem. I am going to think positive thoughts! </p>
<p>By the way, I just watched the you tube video of “Jump Around” at the Badger Football games. If I didn’t have a mortgage, two kids in school, a husband, job, etc., I think I would go back to college at UW. I went to UCLA and the games were fun, but I’ve never seen any team spirit like that!</p>
<p>Thanks for your quick action on this barrons! It’s probably too late to help students this year as registration has already taken place for the first year students who have a lot of credits, but it will help students in subsequent years. It’s very important that UW realize they’ve got a pretty troubling problem when it comes to this particular issue.</p>