<p>Orgo 2 will be easier, trust me</p>
<p>My daughter will be a freshman in the fall and has to take Orgo I & II for her major. Do you think that it would be better for her to take Orgo I in the winter and II a year from this fall so she can get acclimated to college and not have to deal with such a difficult class right away? Or on the otherhand, do you think she should start Orgo this fall since she is currently in AP Chemistry and she will still remember what she has learned from that? Any opinions on this?</p>
<p>While my grades don't reflect how I did, here's my take</p>
<p>If she's not the type to want to be at the top of everything (I mean like, Biochem ect by Sophomore year), I'd seriously think taking Chem 130 first semester, then Orgo I/II in Winter/Fall</p>
<p>Chem 130, Psych 111, to an extent Bio 171/172, are really nice intro classes into the university. They aren't too hard, but they make sure to kick your butt if you fall into the HS mold. Just not as much as Orgo would.</p>
<p>Take Orgo 1 in the fall and then Orgo 2 in the winter. You may think you'll remember Orgo 1 over the summer, but you will forget a lot. Orgo 2 is a direct continuation of Orgo 1. It's so much easier just taking Orgo 2 right after Orgo 1.</p>
<p>how many hours did you guys spend on orgo a week?</p>
<p>I just finished up the organic sequence and I would say I studied approximately 45 minutes of orgo everyday. It's all about consistency, you need to study a little everyday. It worked for me.</p>
<p>what do you think about taking organic chemistry winter/spring instead of fall/winter?</p>
<p>does anyone have any comments on taking organic chem winter/spring instead of fall/winter? i just talked to my advisors and am gonna push it back. does anyone have any strong advice (bad or good)?</p>
<p>My D started the Orgo sequence second semester of Fr year, no negatives for her.</p>
<p>ok, i just talked with my advisors and am now pushing it back. thanks for your reply.</p>
<p>when you say push it back what do you mean?
i'm assuming to winter</p>
<p>yes, when i said push it back i meant this:</p>
<p>organic I- winter
organic II- spring</p>
<p>I have a high school classmate who took the college organic chemistry series along with two courses in organic chemistry lab during the 11 weeks in the summer session at a state university. He got an accumulated GPA of 3.9 (B+, A, A, A, A+) from the five orgo courses, and he will be an entering college freshman this month. He is a smart kid and studies hard, but he definitely does not study all day long and he plays too. When I asked him how he could take 18 credits (quarter system) of Orgo in one summer and had fabulous grades, he told me that several factors helped him:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>He had the professor who is one of the best organic chemistry lecturers in the country. The professor taught over 30 years of organic chemistry on all levels in college and is also the author of several advanced chemistry textbooks. The professor also cares a lot about students; he held office hour everyday after class and also by appointment. He did not grade on curve but dropped the lowest test and quiz scores.</p></li>
<li><p>The class size of organic chemistry in the summer session is much smaller than the same class during academic year, which could be a large class of 200-300 students in it. So the students in the summer session had more access to the help from the professor.</p></li>
<li><p>Although the pace of summer session is fast and the year-long orgo materials were covered in 11 weeks, you get to concentrate on one or two courses instead of dividing your effort among four courses as you do during regular academic year. When you take 4 or 5 courses and need to maintain a good GPA, you just cannot devote most of your time to orgo alone.</p></li>
<li><p>You need to get all the prerequisites done before taking the orgo. My friend actually finished most of the college lower division math and science requirements before even getting into college. He wasted no time in summer in the past five years.</p></li>
<li><p>Anyone is allowed to enroll in the summer session even though you have not been officially admitted to the university, or you matriculate at a different college. Orgo credits eared in summer session at a state university is likely to be accepted at any other college in the country.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If you are concerned about taking orgo sequence during regular academic year, taking it over summer at a good college may be a nice alternative, as my friend did successfully.</p>
<p>
[quote]
He did not grade on curve but dropped the lowest test and quiz scores.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this alone is probably a significant portion of why your friend did so well.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there is always someone here who tries to jump into a conclusion without even knowing any facts and make a statement that lacks basic common sense. In general it is more difficult to get a better grade in college under a non-curve grading system than with a curve-grading system. The Ochem professor of my friend made it clear that he did not want students to rely on a statistical curve to boost their grades; he encouraged students to do their possible best and that was why did not grade on a curve in his classes. The professor was a known strict grader and he never gives out an easy A. You must have at least the total cumulative grade of 85% (combining tests, quizzes and homework) in his class to get an A. The average grade in his OChem class of 60 students is normally 60%, which is in line with the overall performance of any OChem college class during regular academic year. I know about all this because I am in the same university as my friend.</p>
<p>My friend did not get his As from a community college; he attended summer sessions at our states flagship university that has the nationally recognized academic and research strengths in chemistry. He is not a grade grubber and never needs to rely on a few courses to beef up his college GPA which stands currently at 4.0+ as he regularly pulled A+ from different courses, having completed over 70 credits (in quarter system without added AP credits) in college courses of 100-300 levels before entering his freshman year. He impresses me because he obviously has the consistency and is always comfortably in the top 5% of any college courses that he has taken so far. He is a recipient of the Robert C. Byrd Federal Honors Scholarship. </p>
<p>We are discussing here whether or not it is better to take the Ochem sequence during freshman and sophomore years with summer session as an option. If a high school kid went through OChem sequences with Ochem lab courses within 11 weeks, he offered something valuable for me to learn. Obviously, not many of us took college OChem before freshman year. Trying to detract from others accomplishments does not help us, only shows ones jealousy and bitterness.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Trying to detract from others’ accomplishments does not help us, only shows one’s jealousy and bitterness.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm neither jealous nor bitter - I thought I was the one who was jumping to a conclusion here? I don't have a dog in this race in any case - I'm not a chem major of any kind, haven't taken and don't plan to take a chemistry course in college. </p>
<p>
[quote]
In general it is more difficult to get a better grade in college under a non-curve grading system than with a curve-grading system.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So, after I jump to a conclusion that "lacks common sense", you choose to pull out this nugget? The irony is awesome. Deal with it - the curves make a class harder. That's their purpose. They aren't there because the professors found oh **** too few people are getting A's in my class, better revise the grading. They're there to ensure grade deflation. Frankly, I don't know your friend and don't care about him one way or the other. It doesn't matter if he's as dumb as a brick or an academic genius - either way, he gets to benefit from a class where the number of As isn't limited. It's that simple. Curves are a great way to ensure that even when you have a large number of perfectly qualified people, you don't have to give them all As. </p>
<p>
[quote]
My friend did not get his As from a community college; he attended summer sessions at our state’s flagship university that has the nationally recognized academic and research strengths in chemistry. He is not a grade grubber and never needs to rely on a few courses to beef up his college GPA which stands currently at 4.0+ as he regularly pulled A+ from different courses, having completed over 70 credits (in quarter system without added AP credits) in college courses of 100-300 levels before entering his freshman year. He impresses me because he obviously has the consistency and is always comfortably in the top 5% of any college courses that he has taken so far. He is a recipient of the Robert C. Byrd Federal Honors Scholarship.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Um... congrats to him? What the hell is a 4.0+ ? That's the first time I've heard of that.</p>
<p>Okay, since your last question is simple, I'd clarify that first. When someones college grades are mostly As with a few A+s, but very few Bs or B+s, it is possible to push the GPA beyond 4.0, i.e., the GPA is greater than 4.0 (>4.0). This is what is called a GPA 4.0+. My friends college GPA is 4.03 at present. I am present the fact FYI, with no intention to brag for him. </p>
<p>We are not here to argue whether my high school friend is dumb or smart; we are not talking about any dog race that is not happening here. We were discussing grading in college OChem (orgo) courses and the timing to take them. Apparently, you did not realize that you were repeatedly making inappropriate comments insisting that my friends good grades were due to the fact that his professor gave unlimited As in his classes. I wish to let you know that your assertion is groundless. </p>
<p>Instructors use curve grading and non-curve grading for various good reasons. As you pointed out, curve may sometimes be used to ensure grade deflation, but that is only one side of the coin. In many cases, a grading curve is used to raise a class average grade to prevent too many students from failing the course. Regardless of what grading method is used, it is intended to be fair. I dont believe any professors in any college are willing to give unlimited As in a class under any types of grading system. If an instructor is giving out unlimited As, he may be on the way to loose his job. If you speak from your own experience, I imagine perhaps some instructors at your campus might give out unlimited As to students. Good luck to you and your fellow students! Get tons of As when there are plenty of them to go around, not at my campus!</p>
<p>Many people on this thread have made it clear that organic chemistry is not the course in which one can just slack and go on to automatically get an A. Even smart students have to work hard to get a decent grade in orgo sequence. If you are not a chem major of any kind, haven't taken and don't plan to take a chemistry course in college, where do you get the idea the orgo professor in my university gives out unlimited number of As simply because he does not grade on a curve? To get an A from his class, one needs to have the overall grade of 85% at least. Are you an instructor at your university? Do you really know how curve grading and non-curve grading work under different circumstances?</p>
<p>Since you are a senior member on CC and posted over one thousand messages, I am sure you know what comments are appropriate what are not. Everyone is entitled to his opinion. However, if an opinion is insulting and offensive, I hope that the OP is aware of it. My friend is not an academic genius, and he did not get any cheap As from any professor without making his efforts. The faculty at my university will not appreciate your baseless assumption that they give unlimited As in orgo courses when they choose not to grade on a curve. It is way too easy to pass judgment on others out of ones own ignorance.</p>
<p>
[quote]
where do you get the idea the orgo professor in my university gives out unlimited number of As simply because he does not grade on a curve?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Because that's exactly the case. If anyone who hits a certain percentage gets an A, especially when it's one lower than 90%, it's called giving out unlimited As. In many intro classes here, regardless of how good the class does, this is impossible. If the lowest grade in the course is a 96%, that's a failing grade. In your system, in theory, the whole class could get As. Simple concept. When you have a curve, a very limited portion of the class can get As.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are you an instructor at your university? Do you really know how curve grading and non-curve grading work under different circumstances?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes and hell yes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am sure you know what comments are appropriate what are not.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm also pretty sure I get to decide that when I post. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Get tons of As when there are plenty of them to go around, not at my campus!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Frankly, I find it extraordinarily hard to believe that your campus is more grade-deflated than mine, but so be it. We're here posting in the Michigan forum - and you come from anonymous state school. Forgive us for being a little bit cynical about what goes on at other schools, especially ones that don't much care for the curve.</p>
<p>I don't think a professor will fail a student with a 96% at any school. I understand your point about the curve, but I've never seen anyone fail because he had a 90% in the class as the lowest grade. I've seen people get Bs with 95%, but I don't think professors anywhere are that terrible to fail someone. I had a 90% in a class once and got a B, but I think the failing grade was like a 60%, and no one actually failed, and this was in engineering. </p>
<p>and BlueLake:</p>
<p>I don't think Professors get fired for giving out too many A's...maybe a meeting with the dean about the grading process, but pretty sure no one will get fired.</p>
<p>"4. You need to get all the prerequisites done before taking the orgo. My friend actually finished most of the college lower division math and science requirements before even getting into college. He wasted no time in summer in the past five years."</p>
<p>You don't need to take all the "prerequisities." You just need to have either AP Chem credit or do well on the chemistry placement test. Even then, you don't really need to know anything about gen chem (and definitely no math) to do well in orgo.</p>