How hard is to get get into a top tier grad school if...

<p>conn college</p>

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What about a well-known professor who earned a Ph.D from the department to which one is applying? Would his/her rec hold more weight?

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<p>I'm told that this holds slightly more weight because the professor can say something like "X is exactly the type of student who will excel in the program" and he'll know what he's talking about. But you should still pick the 3 professors that know you the best, not just because he happened to attend the program you're interested in.</p>

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I've always wondered how is it that the top LAC's are able to get so many of their students into top PhD programs, relative to the small number of students that they have.

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Maybe I can speak to this point, regarding only grad programs in the sciences, CS, math, and engineering. As has been mentioned on this thread, research and recs are of utmost importance for grad admissions. After that, GREs and GPA count more as disqualifiers (especially if either is unusually low). I'm familiar with Mudd, having a student there and having been in touch the past few years with others in the Mudd community. Maybe Mudd is not a good example, being an odd sort of LAC tech school, but I suspect that other top LACs may share common characteristics (for example, Swarthmore's info pages for its students on fellowship applications is extraordinarily comprehensive, by any standard).</p>

<p>The argument is often made that LAC profs aren't "superstar" cutting-edge researchers. Whether they are or they're not, that doesn't mean they don't know any. Mudd profs collaborate all the time with researchers at the national labs, research unis, industry. They take sabbaticals and do research. They attend the same annual professional meetings and symposia that everyone else in their fields does. They serve on key government committees. Some of them even have relatives at top research unis. It's about networking.</p>

<p>The argument is also made that LAC profs aren't frequently cited researchers. Bunk. Many Mudd profs published as grad students at top research unis, continue to collaborate with profs at those same unis and others (sometimes where their fellow grad students migrated), and have developed a reputation and publishing history with top journals. (As an aside, one Mudd alum is an editor at Science).</p>

<p>Those attributes benefit their students. Mudders graduate with great research experience (and usually lots of it) at Mudd, at research unis, in industry, and in labs; journal publications; and strong recs from profs who know them very well. (Who says you have to attend a top research uni full-time to work with a prof there? That's why God made summer. :) ) Again, it's about networking.</p>

<p>Most Mudders do as well (if not better) on the GREs as they did on the SATs, with scores among the highest in the nation. If they have any weakness, it's usually in lower cumulative GPAs, a circumstance they share with other students from famously difficult and grade-deflated tech schools and programs within schools. If track records account for much and Mudd is any indication, recs and research trump GPAs because from what I've seen personally Mudders every year continue to have their pick, with competitive funding awards, of many of the top "superstar" researchers at the grad programs of their choice.</p>

<p>alright you guys obviously you can get into a great grad school if you go to a great LAC, but what about the third tier unis?</p>

<p>Networking opportunities exist everywhere, Shazilla. Never doubt it. All profs went to school somewhere, and even ones at third-tier schools publish. :) </p>

<p>Keep the GPA up, join the student chapters on campus of professional organizations, start looking in December for summer internships and research (it's no handicap to go to a lower-ranked school), take your classes seriously, prep for the GREs, and get to know your profs. They like kids who show up early for class and pay attention, sit in the front of the room, put in face time during office hours, and ask for help when needed. Don't be afraid to go the extra mile. If you get an idea for something that lights your fire and you'd like to explore independently, find a prof who'll sponsor you. When it's time for you to apply for grad school, ask for their guidance. They've all been there and done that themselves and probably helped lots of students before you. They might even be teachers because they like helping students like you. ;)</p>

<p>sorry molliebatmit - when you said earlier that publishing a paper results in an auto-admit, is that true even when you're like the 6th author (or whatever big figure) and beyond?</p>

<p>I'm like the eighty zillionth (okay, fifth) author on a paper, and the comment on my NSF review sheet just says "co-author on paper in Cell". :)</p>

<p>As I understand it, they're more interested that you've published at all than in which author spot exactly you have. I do think that publications in peer-reviewed journals outweigh publications in undergraduate journals -- it was better for me to be fifth author in Cell than first author in some undergrads-only publication.</p>

<p>i think an "auto admit" is a little bit of an exageration....
i was the sole author of a text book chapter, and the first author of an article in a prestigious journal, yet it didnt seem to help me. (of course, clinical psych phd programs is one of the most difficult programs to get into, with the average school picking around 5 out of 300 applicants; one of the schools i interviewed at said they recieved over 700 applications for 6 spots).</p>

<p>wait a sec... why do schools only keep 6 spots open for a clinical psych phd program? that's not even enough kids to fill up half a classroom... i don't get it, shouldn't they take atleast enough kids to fill up a few classes...</p>

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I do think that publications in peer-reviewed journals outweigh publications in undergraduate journals

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Agree with mollie. I'm not familiar with any undergraduate journals, so I can't speak to their value in graduate school admissions. I think any reference to journal articles on this thread should be interpreted to mean "peer-reviewed" or "refereed" articles in scholarly journals. Here's what they are:
<a href="http://www.lib.waldenu.edu/serials.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.lib.waldenu.edu/serials.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Shazilla,</p>

<p>Who said anything about filling classrooms?</p>

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why do schools only keep 6 spots open for a clinical psych phd program? that's not even enough kids to fill up half a classroom... i don't get it, shouldn't they take atleast enough kids to fill up a few classes...

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<p>Well, I'll put it to you this way. I know that for several of Harvard Business School's various individual doctoral programs, only 2 or 3 students were brought in.</p>

<p>The major point of a PhD program is not to take classes, it's to do original research leading to a thesis.</p>

<p>Each program will only take enough students as it has spots for -- if, for example, there are only twenty professors in the department, it doesn't make sense to take more than five students per year. Some departments will also not take more students than they can fund via their chosen funding source.</p>