<p>I have heard from many that UChicago is really rigorous, that even the most intelligent students usually never get A's. While I understand how this may personally help us in the future, I'm sure many of us want to go to grad or med school. What will they think when they see a transcript full of B's and C's? Grades are a huge part of the admission process...what is better? Getting low grades at UChicago, or getting straight A's at University of Illinois Urbana Champaign? My other question was about how supportive the students were of each other academically in the university. Is it very cutthroat competition, with everybody so engrossed in their own "passions" that they sort of forget about everyone else? Or is Chicago more of a supportive environment, kind of like Rice?</p>
<p>It's not very cut-throat, and everyone is very nice and supportive.</p>
<p>That being said, it is "sink or swim" as my father said (he is a graduate of the business school)</p>
<p>Bs from Chicago will always look better than As from Illinois. BTW, I talked to someone who went there and he said that since it is a public school, they have grade deflation. It's very hard to get As there, as well.</p>
<p>I think if you are interested in Chicago, you are probably a good fit.</p>
<p>It will definitely help you in the future, especially if you want to go onto Business school. No. 1 Econ program in America (tied with harvard), and No. 3 business school (after Tuck and Wharton).</p>
<p>I suggest you visit. I was pleasantly surprised and I bet you will be too. The people were NOT antisocial at all. I was completely shocked. Preppy, not antisocial. Also, I though people might be intellectually snobbish, but they were actually incredibly helpful.</p>
<p>Chicago is very academically demanding, but they offer a great deal of support as well. Students tend to help one another and they still find time for a good time. Classes tend to be small, even for first year students, and class discussion is highly valued and part of one's grade, so there is no opportunity to coast. If one enjoys intellectual rigor and discovery foremost above all else, then Chicago is likely the school of choice.</p>
<p>A's are pretty unlikely are pretty hard to come by. You have to remember, however, that employers everywhere understand this and the result is they expect lower GPA's.</p>
<p>Other schools grade hard too- JHU, Wake Forest, Cornell, Swarthmore, the top publics. Princeton is toughening up this year, too. Everybody at Chicago is not ready to get those A's. Some are goofing off, especially first year, some are not well prepared. If you focus, are prepared, and want A's, you will get them. Maybe not every time, but, enough. It isn't as if A's are twice as hard to get as at most top schools.</p>
<p>Just as a point of reference, I believe one must have a 3.25 or above to be on the Dean's List at the end of the year. It can be done without getting an A since Chicago gives B+'s, but an A or two probably is more likely.</p>
<p>The hardest grading school I know of is Reed College, the average graduating GPA is 2.8, and only about 70% graduate. Students aren't told their GPA's until graduation, unless they petition to see them. If a student falls to a C average, they are notified.</p>
<p>Idad, a Chicago student who spoke with me yesterday said that a 3.5 is required to be on the Dean's List. Has the rule changed? </p>
<p>She also said that a 3.5 GPA is rare.</p>
<p>Dean's list (and honors) remain at 3.25. <a href="http://www-college.uchicago.edu/academics/honors.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www-college.uchicago.edu/academics/honors.shtml</a></p>
<p>It's also not as hard to get such a GPA at Chicago as has been suggested here. I think when my son graduated in 2000, nearly half of the students graduated "with honors." I don't have actual stats, but I suspect that there has been some grade inflation at Chicago over the last 10 years or so.</p>
<p>From what S says, one can get A's & B's, but they are not handed out. One has to work their behind off for them.</p>
<p>Also, mommamia, if you read this, I tried to answer your PM, but your message allotment has been reached.</p>
<p>Sorry, I probably misheard it, but I remember her saying 3.5 (three syllables).. it is possible that she misspoke. Or maybe, she was simply talking about how hard it was in general to get a 3.5. It seemed to be a benchmark of some sort.. maybe her personal goal.</p>
<p>For graduate or professional school admission, don't they require 3.0 GPA min?
If so, going to Chicago may hinder one's chances of getting an advanced degree.</p>
<p>Grad schools take into account the grading standards of the various colleges and universities. I believe that within 3 years after graduation, Chicago is either #1 or #2 in placing students in grad school.</p>
<p>So like a 3.8 GPA is like genius-high?</p>
<p>No, a lot of geniuses get lower GPA's than that if they're not hung up on getting grades rather than just learning. And some mere mortals (that is to say, typical UChicago students) can get a high GPA if they're willing to sacrifice body and soul for grades. And of course, there's a lot more to do at and in Chicago than just your courses; you can even get a great education and have a rounded college experience. (I think my son never sweated it at UofC, because he was interested in being in Chicago and not just at Chicago. He still graduated with honors -- in fact well above that bar.)</p>
<p>So IDad, most graduate schools will forgive my 2.7 - 2.9 GPA since it is from Chicago?</p>
<p>Depends on what else you have done, and what your professors say about you. I knew several students that worked in our lab who were struggling to get to a 3.0 that now have Ph.D's. There is hope.</p>
<p>People here make Chicago's grading out to be tougher than it is. Visit <a href="http://www.gradeinflation.com%5B/url%5D">www.gradeinflation.com</a> and you'll see that the average GPA is only marginally lower than that of many other top schools.</p>
<p>There is definitely a fair amount of inflation there, and "it's UChicago" is no excuse for a sub-3.25 GPA...while 3.25 may be the average, that means that there are many kids both above and below that number. Keep that in mind--having a GPA around the average makes you average. </p>
<p>From what I've heard and read, with a little hard work, it's not anywhere near impossible to get a 3.5-3.7. The problem is that Chicago's admissions process allows one to salvage his or her GPA with a stellar essay...but grades, not essays, are the best indicator of future college performance. So Chicago takes a chance on quite a few kids, and some of them just aren't up to the workload.</p>
<p>The figure for Chicago in your link is consistent with my observation in #8 above.</p>
<p>I don't think Chicago's "taking a chance" on students with lower grades and good essays explains anything, however. To demonstrate that, you'd have to show the relationship between high school grades and college grades, demonstrate that Chicago is different from most other schools, and convince us that any such difference has to do with the role of the essays in the admission process.</p>
<p>I agree with you, however, that grades predict grades (better than test scores predict grades, for example), and I'd conjecture that the more intensive academic programs in college may not be to the taste of some students who enroll in them. This may or may not have to do with their basic ability; but it definitely may relate to their willingness to focus on academics.</p>
<p>while you need 3.5GPA to get your name on the dean's list at Harvard, you only need 3.2 at Chicago. However, toughness of UChicago really depends on you. If you want to take rigorous courses, then you can do that. If not, you don't have to. I've seen people who go for challenges and overcome it, also people who go for challanges and fails miserably with Roger Clemes' ERA-like GPA. and of course there're people who look for easy classes so they can get outta here as soon as possible. </p>
<p>Best wishes with your admission.</p>
<p>Research on what predicts what in terms of college success shows that prediction is likely only when like predicts like. That is, only if the classes in high school are conducted the same as in college and the requirements are similar, do grades predict grades. Likewise for the standardized tests, they only predict how one will do given that similar types of tests are used. At Chicago, the role of discussion, argument, and writing is emphasized, which is why so much emphasis is placed on essay writing in the admissions process. </p>
<p>A recent president at Harvard stated that he felt the evidence suggested that a student who scored a 650 on the SAT verbal could do very well there. Test scores and grades are not necessarily used to predict college academic success, but as a basis for selecting a class that will eventually go on to be successful and reflect well on the school regardless of the school or curriculum (which is precisely what the studies show).</p>
<p>I was a TA at Chicago, we graded very hard, and designed tests that required students go well beyond simple mastery of the content to earn an A. A's were rare. The real grade inflation was in the awarding of B's. By making sure one does steady work, a B was always within reach. Carefully taking at least a few classes were A's are possible, a 3.25 is in reach. In my experience, the difference between a B at Chicago, and at other similar schools, is that Chicago (with some exceptions) requires one to attend regularly, turn in the work, and of course take the exams. At some other schools, reviewing prior to an exam with a TA often is enough to attain a B or B+. For one person's recent experience see <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200503/douthat%5B/url%5D">http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200503/douthat</a></p>