<p>I'm wondering how hard academically WM is. I read something that the GPAs of students at WM were significantly lower than at comparable colleges like UVa.</p>
<p>from waht i hear its no piece of cake thats for sure. A friend of mine who went ther said it was almost too stressful for her because of the rigorous workload...but it depends on who you are and what program you are in im sure.</p>
<p>Okay, I transferred into W&M this past fall from a school that Princeton Review has rated academically "superior" to WM. Let's just say, however, that my GPA at that last school was significantly better than what it is bound to be here. I don't feel like I'm learning more or doing more work here than at my last school. The simple fact of the matter is that professors are generally very tough when it comes to grading. A friend of mine transferred here from a well regarded polytechnic school in NY with a 4.0, but is now lingering around the 3.0 mark. While I understand that professors want you to work for you grade, I think it is unreasonable sometimes the way this is done. I have literally written papers where the first comment is "FANTASTIC PAPER!" and looked down to where the grade is written to see a B or B+. The saying, "WM: where your best hasn't been good enough since 1693" certainly seems to have some validity...</p>
<p>Most professors will tell you that an A at other schools, such as Wharton, UVa, Williams, to name a few that I've heard, is equivalent to a B here</p>
<p>As far as validity's concerned i dont know, its only what the professors have said</p>
<p>I don't understand how WM could have great professors that grade so harshly. Wouldn't they want their students to get decent grades? Doesn't this seem to be a contradiction?</p>
<p>I want to do Pre-Med. How hard are the science professors?</p>
<p>I don't see how grading hard makes the professors bad. They want the students to absolutely master the material. By having such a hard grading policy, in theory, they allow their students to get better grades than other institutions by allowing for extremely outstanding students to get As when at other institutions As are easily obtained when nothing higher is available for those that put in more effort.</p>
<p>Pre-Med is a good program, but in classes like Bio 204 you can expect to see a lot of very low grades</p>
<p>Getting bad grades, especially in science classes, is not going to look too good for top med-schools. John's Hopkins or Harvard isn't going to care that I went to WM. A bad grade is a bad grade.</p>
<p>It seems that it'll be impossible to get a 4.0. Is this true?</p>
<p>I'm a Sophomore at William and Mary. The joke is that they make it harder than it has to be. I'm stressing now because of exams, etc. Yes, the workload is hard and my GPA is not near what it was in high school. For me, it's manageable though.</p>
<p>the argument about a bad grade being a bad grade doesn't hold, otherwise no one would go anywhere other than to a school with a high level of grade inflation. There are many benefits to the fact that there is a higher grading standard at WM. I would also say that it is by no means whatsoever impossible to get a 4.0, its just a matter of being smart about it. I mean yeah there are A LOT of people who talk about their grades, what they got on a test, etc and it gets annoying but the school is what it is</p>
<p>What do you mean there are a lot of people who talk about their grades? You mean they're all failing? I've heard people say that they live in the library to get Cs. </p>
<p>Do you think it's only certain professors who grade so harshly or is the tough grading general? If it's only certain professors, can't I just make my schedule around the difficult ones?</p>
<p>Personally, I can get annoyed when people obsess over finding out how everyone else did in their classes, which at a lot of schools is considered to be in poor form. Honestly, I really see very few people who spend their days in the library only to fail.</p>
<p>Unlike high school, there are A LOT of other variables at play, and you have to be smart about them, its all about management</p>
<p>Yes, you could conceivably schedule ur courses around easier professors, and you will learn less and feel less rewarded, but you will find that as u move up into ur major that those easier prerequisites where the professor shirked, hurts you in the long run since you didn't learn all you need to learn.</p>
<p>However, most people will tell you that while places such as Ratemyprofessor.com can make sure that you know what you are getting yourself into, avoiding classes that interest you because you think they will be too hard or too much work is something you'll likely regret in the long run. </p>
<p>The really case in point here though is that WM is not too hard, and it really is all about making smart scheduling decisions</p>
<p>"John's Hopkins or Harvard isn't going to care that I went to WM."</p>
<p>That's not true whatsoever. Compared to W&M's cohort, of course, a bad grade is a bad grade, and failing is failing, etc. However, grad/prof. schools in no way judge schools outside of respective cohorts as equal. An A- at W&M will pull far more weight than will an A in the same course at say, VCU.</p>
<p>"It seems that it'll be impossible to get a 4.0. Is this true?"</p>
<p>No. Students do it every year. However, it really doesn't matter. In general, if your GPA is above 3.8, you're more or less considered to be in the top 10% of your class, and depending on the field, a 3.8 could put you well in the top 2-3%. The problem is that a 4.0 takes more work than you're probably aware of right now. Most kids go through an adjustment phase at college and W&M, for various reasons. All it takes is one bad day or being sick, etc. and a 4.0 is shot. </p>
<p>"Honestly, I really see very few people who spend their days in the library only to fail."</p>
<p>Well, it depends on what they're doing. Except for the 3rd floor, Swem can be big time social hour too. But I agree that in general, most students that are diligent about their studies turn out OK. They may not graduate summa, PBK, etc., but things are just fine.</p>
<p>I don't find people talk about grades much at all. Usually when people answer questions like "how'd you do on that exam?" the responses are along the lines of "pretty good, ok, not to good, terrible, great" etc. Qualitative, not quantitative. I really have no idea what grades the people I live with get.</p>
<p>Personally, I don't find the workload very bad here at all. I do less work than in HS, but I also have a significantly lower GPA (but it's still ok). One of the kids I live with spends hours a day in the library. The other one does relatively little work until crunch time when things are due, like I do. For me the biggest difference isn't the workload at all, but the expectations come exam time. The mastery of material required in some classes to get an A is astounding. And as one of the other posters mentioned, you can write papers that get good comments throughout the paper and find your professor thought it was really good so they gave it a B or B+. I also know a kid who looks really hard to find easy classes to take to get as high a gpa as possible, but personally I think that is amazingly stupid.</p>
<p>As for Med School, W&M has very good results in that area.</p>
<p>You will not graduate with a 4.0. I believe the numbers were 2 kids who graduated in '04 had a 4.0, and 1 who graduated in '05. So... that's 3 out of around 2900. Don't expect to get a 4.0. The average incoming GPA of freshmen at W&M is around 4.0, and C's are not that rare here.</p>
<p>Now I'm terrified of starting next fall.</p>
<p>But...thanks for the input.</p>
<p>To be honest, I was terrified when I first got here, and to be honest, it really isn't bad. Yeah you can look for the easiest classes you can find, but you really are only hurting yourself, you don't learn anything, etc. </p>
<p>Its a matter of playing it smartly and focusing on the big picture</p>
<p>I attended W&M for grad school and received my master's in education. Let me give you my perspective. As a resident of VA, William and Mary was my dream college. I was thrilled to get into the program. I was an older student being in my 30's with children and a husband. Most of the students in my classes were just completing their 4 year degree and transferring to W&M. They were outstanding students with stellar GPA's coming in. Yes, W&M is tough. Academically I wasn't too stressed because I was already a teacher. However, the others were very stressed. The work was not so difficult as that it was a tremendous amount of work. Each class was one term paper after another, portfolio after portfolio, as well as one project after the next. There was never a breather. The professors were not generous with grades. Many times, and I do mean numerous times, classmates would leave class crying over grades. A few quit, some were asked to drop the program. The professors philosophy was that because they were not teachers yet they were not professionals in their field and therefore would not being earning A's. Ahh, the tears, frustration and late night study sessions and drinks at the nearby bars. Don't get me wrong, it is an outstanding educational experience. I believe alot of it just depends on the major you are in. It took me 3 years part time to complete my master's and it was the most stressful 3 years ever. I am truly glad to never have to attend another class there, but hey, I can say I graduated from William and Mary!</p>
<p>As an undergrad, you really have to choose your battles. I find it impossible to complete all the assigned work, but if you try to find out what assignments are important you can do pretty well without living in the library. One thing is sure though: DO NOT COME TO W&M IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO WORK. I work my ass off to get a 3.2 here, and only saw my first "A" paper in college this semester as a sophomore.</p>
<p>I don't find people talk about grades much at all.</p>
<p>I suppose its all in who you have class with. I had pretty competitive circles of friends within my majors, and we pretty much knew where each other stood after each exam. Most of it was in good fun, and a little healthy competition seemed to help. There's a bit of a rep for student competitiveness, IMHO.</p>
<p>You will not graduate with a 4.0.</p>
<p>Yeah, but I think a fair number of students are more than capable of doing so. It just comes down to marginal costs. In the end, how much does a 4.0 buy somebody over a 3.9? I'd venture to say very little. Heading into the working world, I'd say none, and if somebody is headed to grad/prof. school, then LOR's really come into play. As you've alluded to, the level of mastery required to earn an A in some courses is pretty incredible, and I think for some, it simply isn't worth it.</p>
<p>Now I'm terrified of starting next fall.</p>
<p>Why? That's silly. You wouldn't have been admitted if multiple people did not think that you have what it takes to succeed at W&M.</p>
<p>Mightymeals, did you find that to be true as a freshman?</p>