<p>Theres also the letters and science version of it which is Operations Reserach & Management Science. Its a new major <a href="http://www.ieor.berkeley.edu/AcademicPrograms/Ugrad/ORMS.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.ieor.berkeley.edu/AcademicPrograms/Ugrad/ORMS.pdf</a> </p>
<p>Im sort of annoyed that it wasnt there before.</p>
<p>I was mentioning this as a suggestion. I am a transfer student who is already in Haas.</p>
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so you want to get into Haas which is going to happen in your junior year. By that time, i don't think IEOR is a viable alternative unless you fulfill all the lower division requirement. However, engineering is pretty hard, so if you try to fulfill these requirements while taking required classes for Haas, you might be screwing yourself over. you need like a 3.5 to get into Haas, i think
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<p>Not only that, but transferring into the College of Engineering from L&S is no walk in the park by any means. Such a transfer is comparable in difficulty as getting into Haas.</p>
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Theres also the letters and science version of it which is Operations Reserach & Management Science. Its a new major <a href="http://www.ieor.berkeley.edu/Academ.../Ugrad/ORMS.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.ieor.berkeley.edu/Academ.../Ugrad/ORMS.pdf</a>
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<p>Just keep in mind that this major is in no way a direct substitute for business administration. OR is a fairly specialized subject that deals with inventory management, queueing theory, supply-chain management, and that sort of thing. Now it is true that some bus-ad people do stuff like that too, but others do marketing, finance, strategy, accounting, and that sort of thing. I'm not saying that OR is good or bad, it's really a question of what you like to do.</p>
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If I don't get into business school, I can't major in Business, so I have to major in Economics, which isn't bad at all actually--there's just no way to get an MBA in Berkeley with a major in Economics. An Economics major is based on very similar ideas as a Business major and the average salary is around the same, but it's just the fact that I would be settling that bothers me. Being at a school like Berkeley, it seems like kind of a waste to just graduate with a BA, which is why I am aspiring after Haas so much. If I don't get into Haas here, I'm gonna have to pursue an MBA in all likilihood at SJSU, which umm, no offense to friends in SJSU, is kind of a step down from Berkeley?
...I mean, on a direct scale, these grades only matter for Haas, because if I major in Economicsa good GPA is pretty much irrelevant since it doesn't take much to get a BA
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<p>These statements are erroneous on so many different levels. Let me see if I can enumerate them.</p>
<h1>1 - You can't get an MBA while you're an undergrad. The choice on the table is between getting a BS from Haas or a BA from L&S. The MBA is something you would get later, almost always after having had a few years of work experience. So why fret about it now?</h1>
<p>And just to clear things up, practically nobody gets into the Haas MBA program right after graduating from undergrad, whether that person is graduating from the BS Haas program, or the BA econ program, or from Harvard, or from wherever. Those who do displayed tremendous leadership qualities and/or significant work experience either before or during their undergrad years. See my point #2 below.</p>
<h1>2 - You can absolutely get an MBA after getting a BA in economics from L&S. Plenty of people do so. You can of course also get an MBA after getting a BS in bus-ad. But it's not as if the BS grads have much of an edge over the BA econ grads. In fact, any edge would be negligible. Far far and away the most important determinant of whether you get into a top-flight MBA program is the quality of your work experience. What you actually majored in as an undergrad plays only an indirect role in the sense that what you majored in may influence what kind of job you will get, which will then determine the quality of your work experience. However, any deficiencies in this respect can be easily fixed by such things as summer internships or work co-ops.</h1>
<p>I only know a few people who got into a top-flight MBA program right after undergrad. For example, I know one guy who did it, but as a re-entry student. Basically, this guy went to college but didn't like it, so dropped out to join the military, where he eventually became a decorated member of the Special Forces. When his tour of duty was up, he left the military, went back to college, graduated, and then got immediately got admitted to several elite MBA programs. So this guy, technically speaking, got admitted right after undergrad, but he obviously has a wealth of leadership experience that most of us will never have. </p>
<h1>3 - GPA is absolutely relevant when you're talking about Economics for the simple reason that Econ is an impacted major which means that only those students who do well in Econ requirements are allowed to actually declare the major. While I agree that Haas is probably harder to get into than Econ, the fact is, plenty of people get rejected from BOTH Haas AND Econ.</h1>
<p>The point is, nobody should be so cavalier as to say that grades are irrelevant if you're thinking of becoming an Econ major. </p>
<h1>4 - Is SJSU not as good of a school as Berkeley? Yeah. But hey. Let's not be too cocky here. Just because you go to Berkeley for undergrad does not automatically mean that you're automatically entitled to get into an elite graduate program. If you look at the Career and Graduate Services website of Berkeley, you will notice that plenty of Berkeley grads end up going to no-name grad schools. And some others even apply to no-name grad schools... AND GET REJECTED. And then of course there are still others who don't even manage to graduate at all, either because they drop out, or even worse because they flunk out. Just because you go to Berkeley does not automatically mean that you're going to get a degree.</h1>
<h1>5 - If money really is your thing, I would spend less time obsessing about how to get into Haas, and spend more time trying to set yourself up for a career in investment banking on Wall Street. That means getting summer internships, networking with people, and that sort of thing. Note, you don't need to go to Haas to end up on Wall Street. Wall Street firms hire Berkeley students of all stripes. I personally know several MCB and humanities majors who got Wall Street Ibanking offers.</h1>
<p>The truth is, not everybody at Haas gets a high-paying job. If money is what you really want, then you'd be better off as a humanities major with a bunch of Ibanking offers than be a Haas graduate with no Ibanking offer. </p>
<p>The other way you can go is, obviously try to get into engineering. While obviously engineering salaries can't touch banking money, the fact is, average salaries for several of the engineering disciplines actually exceeds that of Haas. Now of course it is quite difficult to transfer into engineering from L&S, in fact, comparably difficult as getting into Haas. However, the point is that money is really what you want, there are several ways you can go, of which Haas is just one method, and may not even be the most lucrative way.</p>
<p>Heh. I shall forward this to my friend.</p>
<p>How often do IEOR students head into finance, consulting or investment banking? I'm a bioengineering freshmen right now, but I seriously deciding to switch into another major. My sisters keep pushing me to apply for economics, but I'm reluctant to transfer out of CoE. So I'm taking the IEOR seminar next semester and see how things will go.</p>
<p>unlimited- Fairly Often</p>
<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/IEOR.stm%5B/url%5D">http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/IEOR.stm</a></p>
<p>sakky- I like your responses. I agree that theres nothing that close to business ad , but its something also like it thats similar that people overlook. Operations Reserach & Management Science is the new letters of science version of IEOR so you dont need to transfer to engineering.</p>
<p>Should I stay in Coe for IEOR or switch to L&S for ORMS? I do want to take a foreign language...</p>
<p>I would say that if operations management is your thing, doing it within the College of Engineering probably preferable, if for no other reason than the program has been around for many years and is thus well established, whereas the L&S version has just gotten off the ground. I am basically always wary of any brand-new programs because I'm sure that Berkeley is just feeling things out right now and things could change significantly in any new program. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the CoE IEOR is ABET accredited. While I think ABET accreditation is of only minor significance, why turn it down if you don't have to? </p>
<p>If you structure your IEOR program properly, you can take a foreign language. The worst thing that would happen is that you end up taking the language for no credit. But who cares? The point is to learn, not to worry about units.</p>
<p>Really? I would love to take a language for no credit. How does it work?</p>
<p>Sakky this maybe a random question. There used to be a business minor. What were the requirements for that? Im just curious.</p>
<p>I wish there was still a business minor..</p>
<p>UnlimitedX, the way it usually works is that you sign up for the course like a regular student, then somewhere along the way, you officially drop the course, but you just keep showing up anyway. If you're confronted by the prof as to why you dropped the course but are still showing up (a very rare occurrence as most profs won't even notice or care), you just claim you never dropped the course and so there must be some sort of snafu at the registrar's office.</p>
<p>Sakky, the language classes are often very small, and the profs will notice, although they might not "care" in that they won't mind you coming to class and helping if you are working and benefiting people.</p>
<p>I don't know about the 'noticing' part. The way I structured it above, your name would be on the official class rolls on the first day of class. Technically speaking, once a person later drops a class, the prof is notified of that drop, but as a practical matter, most profs don't bother to look, particularly if you keep showing up anyway. The only time that it will really come up is when the final grading sheet is provided to the prof by the registrar's office at the end of the semester, who will then notice that your name doesn't appear. But so what? By that time, the semester is over anyway.</p>