<p>I meant to add that he may need a couple of SATIIs to apply to some of his target schools.</p>
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<p>Elementary, my dear! What else could one expect as those schools have plenty of candidates that have the stats. Why cling to kids known solely for academic prowess when you can pick kids who are in the ballpark and have MUCH more to offer? Fwiw, the focus on high stats as in high SAT and bazillions APs on CC is a direct correlation to the type of students who find this site in the first place! And a direct correlation to the racial distribution of the specific areas of CC. Scratch the surface a bit, and you will find little overlap between the SAT forum, the Musical Theatre, and the athletic forums! </p>
<p>All in all, it is easy to discuss GPA and SATs, and a lot harder to evaluate how good the ECs are. Hence, the focus on scores by many. </p>
<p>“Something extra” doesn’t have to be climbing Everest, literally or figuratively. It’s more often about balance, commitment over time, the sort of awareness it shows a kid has, the standards he holds himself to and some energy. I do think the ECs will be a hurdle at a school like D. </p>
<p>And x% of kids with 700-790 CR may have been admitted, but you have to see the 75th percentile is 780- so this number group is skewed high. The combo of 700 CR, for a possible econ major, and few ECs (so far, here. And in a pool that will bring more,) places chances differently. Frankly, if this were my kid, I’d be doing triage.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Triage is indeed important, and that is why reverting to a reasonable list of targets is important. But let’s no go overboard with the 75th percentile. A decade ago, a student who might post a 780/700 would have been told he or she stood a good chance at every school, safe and except a couple. Even today, many students are accepted with scores that are below that. Actually, exacty 50 percent of the students are accepted with stats that below the average! How is that simplistic statistics? </p>
<p>PS I am not sure if I understand the implication of the 700 CR score for a potential econ major? Was that positive or negative? Perhaps I am missing something but I happen to think that a 780M/700R is in the (high) ballpark for applicants at schools known for topnotch econ programs. </p>
<p>For the life of me, how ANYONE can consider ANY of the top 30 schools as a “match” is beyond me. No one has a “decent shot” at any of them. From the student’s perspective, they are all lotteries (which is far different from suggesting the selection process is like a lottery). </p>
<p>I don’t agree with the advice to apply to half a dozen matches so long as you can find safeties that you are happy to attend. You can only attend one school and no one gives you brownie points for more acceptances, so if you can find those safeties, apply to the schools that are the best fit, regardless of whether they are a reach or a match (and the process is so idiosyncratic anyway that I don’t think you can really determine the difference between reach and match with any precision).</p>
<p>Xiggi, it may vary by college, but the 700 CR may be out of line with the competition for econ, which also requires reading and analysis components. The math score is good, yes. And, no disrespect intended to this kid, but in addition to the 700, he is missing “the rest of the story” for an elite- the EC strengths. The triage I’d do would include getting him activated, outside the hs. But even on that idea, it works far better if they pick up commitments in summer before senior year, at the least.</p>
<p>Maybe he could apply undecided, but then adcoms have to figure out where his strengths lie- and I don’t see what gives a picture, at this point. Maybe OP will come back and tell us what else she learned he has been involved in, which could add a missing piece.</p>
<p>Some information here about athletic recruits is incorrect. Post #52: no one can sign as a junior in high school. It is against NCAA rules. Before the signing date (most sports mid-Nov. for early signing/mid April of senior year for regular signing, some sports are in Feb). Before that, offers and acceptances are verbal, and either side, school or athlete, can back out. MANY athletes change their minds, or the coaches change schools, or there is an injury, or another school makes a better offer. No commitment until that NLI is signed.</p>
<p>As stated above, this student is not, as a high school jv lacrosse player, going to be a recruited athlete. Sports is an EC, and that’s it. I think his having gone to school in europe is an interesting item on the application, neither an EC nor a hook, but interesting and may make him more attractive than other applicants who went to the same school from k-12. He needs to play up what he has, and some of his experiences in europe may make a good essay.</p>
<p>Not clear what the family is interested or the kid (not the OP, who is just giving advice). The kid sounds like a solid student, but not necessarily a good candidate for a super elite school. He is a senior. How can a college consultant package this kid any better than the family can at this point since his ECs, class schedule, and grades are set. He will be unique in that he has lived overseas, which sets him apart from the BRWKs (or however that goes). </p>
<p>Unless he wants to go to a super elite, he will probably do just fine working with his family, his GC and some teachers to put together a solid application that will get him in at top 50 (but not top 20 schools). Is he expecting to do much better on the SAT? Did he study/practice the CR section? Otherwise, may not be worth that much to re-take. </p>
<p>Being a guy might give him a slight edge at a LAC, but less so as an econ type major. Also many LACs and some Us like to see interest, so visits should be ongoing now. Good luck! I think he will be do just fine. </p>
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<p>This might all go to semantics and personal definitions. Not too long ago, there was this lengthy debate about what constitutes a safety school and what was a guaranteed 100 percent acceptance. This said, I do not see the big problem in defining a set of school that DO match the profile of a student and for all intents and purposes where a candidate has a “decent shot.” For what is worth, how many students in Michigan do you think have a “decent shot” at getting an offer from Mrs. Ann Arbor? How many in California at UCLA, USC, or Cal? All such schools are listed in the top 30 of USNews. </p>
<p>Again, we are not talking about safeties, schools with a 80 percent chance of admission, but solely school with a decent shot and schools that match the profile of a student! And it is good to remember how students who graduate from a school such as Harvard Westlake look at their “local” scene. And if that is too much of an elitist twist, we can safely assume that a student described by the OP DOES have a decent shot at the school listed, If he does NOT have a fair chance, I wonder what it takes to have that proverbial fair chance! </p>
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<p>LF, this is what I wrote on the first page of this thread. I think I raised the issue of the 700CR earlier:</p>
<p>Post 13 by Xiggi follows </p>
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<p>Again, unless we have a very different opinion as to which schools offer a top notch education in economics, I think that a 780/700 SAT profile is in the ballpark. Perhaps, you might focus solely at HYP and their stratospheric scores, but beyond that you have a number of schools that actually might have even better Econ programs at the UG level. Are you suggesting that a 780/700 SAT score would not be competitive at Wellesley or Williams? Chicago or Cal or UCLA?</p>
<p>Unless I am missing something, but students do not have be overly specific in UG admissions. And even if that was the case, I think we might want to look at the graduate programs in economics to ascertain the impact of Quant versus Verbal scores. I happen to think that the expectations are higher for the quantitative sections. However, this would derail this thread, as I do not think that the applications or the chances of the OP subject should be major specific in terms of chances. </p>
<p>What’s important is what he and his family have in mind. If he’s going to a high school where a lot of kids go away to college, he and his parents are going to be hearing some of the talk and they are not likely to be totally in a vacuum They may well have their match, safety schools pretty much in line, and are looking for some selective schools to add to the list where he has the best chance of getting accepted. Hard to say these days. </p>
<p>Xiggi, if I’m following: are you saying in the ballpark because the 700 at least squeaks above the 25th percentile at Dartmouth? Because the way I see it, not without a draw. “Maybe possible” but too much competition. And right now, we don’t see a draw- just a minimum of ECs, not including anything to intrigue. (Sorry, OP.) </p>
<p>If you mean lots and lots of other great schools, yes. Absolutely. We’re just picking on two aspects of the same picture. And the thread keeps swinging back to Dartmouth. </p>
<p>As for, say, Williams, isn’t it the same issue? 75th is 780/780, and his very limited “rest of the picture?” We’re not really arguing, if we’re agreeing he needs to take a step down. k? </p>
<p>edited</p>
<p>I will bet my car (an aging Honda Civic) that this kid doesn’t end up majoring in economics. </p>
<p>These discussions always get so specific about the intended major as if we really need to decide now: Macro with a heavy focus on econometrics? Micro with extensive interdisciplinary work in Cog Sci and Behavioral Economics? Macro with lots of International Relations thrown in so the kid can get a job at the World Bank?</p>
<p>Most kids DON’T major in what they think they’re going to major in, and the likelihood that an Adcom is going to see this kid in the context of other econ wannabee’s is extremely low (in the absence of a TON of stuff that screams econ- which the OP has not provided us.)</p>
<p>Ditto everything mathmom said. To the letter. Adding that Vassar is completing a $90,000,000 Integrated Science Center which definitely shows their commitment to STEM fields. And they are still only 40% male.</p>
<p>When talking to the upper income private school students I work with about ‘packaging’ themselves, I tell them to think of it as finding and/or creating their own hook. For this student it could be his European experience or something else we don’t know about. I hate to say it but Xiggi may be right and an independent counselor could give him the perspective on his own life that he doesn’t know how to see. That combined with his work figuring out what he really wants from the undergrad experience will set him up for success - in this crazy college admissions world! </p>
<p>I posted that ^^^^ after reading only the first page of this thread on the crummy android app - not realizing there were another 60 comments so if my post is irrelevant or now off topic just skim right over it!</p>
<p>Naming a possible major can represent a choice, a judgment the student makes and then can be weighed against the prep and the rest of the app, reflect the kid’s awareness- or not. Doesn’t work for all majors, obviously. But certainly those with competition from well prepared kids. STEM is the obvious example. Yes, plenty may change majors, but it represents their thinking. Or not. Adcoms really have to work with what they get. You say you want engineering (for whatever reason) but never took higher math, the only physics was in 9th and no math- sci activities or LoRs, can be oops, for a most competitive college. </p>
<p>Oh so many great thoughts! Here’s what I take away:</p>
<ol>
<li>Definitely retake the SATs. Maybe get some coaching on the CR (that’s my son’s speciality, so I’ll see if I can get him out to my friend’s house.</li>
<li>Think long and hard about a counselor to help with his essays. Make sure he downloads the Common App now and starts thinking about them. At the very least, consider helping him myself. I’m a good editor, if I can be so bold, and have a pretty good idea of how to help him write his OWN essay well. That said, I’m not close to professional.</li>
<li>We do need to get the list of acceptances before we know what the NCP will pay. So if he really wants to try for Dartmouth, go all out. Get going on EA, there and elsewhere. Then build a very good list of thoughtfully chosen options where he has either a good chance or a very good one, and make sure the very good chance schools offer merit aid, just in case. This is, as for almost all these kinds of applicants, the bulk of the work.</li>
<li>Take advantage of being a male and read through the LAC list carefully. Carleton might be absolutely perfect, if he could get in.</li>
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<p>I’m ready to have another conversation with him. One last question: his sister went to Harvard (recruited athlete who wasn’t much of a stretch academically), his father to Harvard Law. Enough of a tip to warrant sending them an application?</p>
<p>Thank you all so much! And I hope you all are doing well, as the admissions seasons revs up.</p>
<p>To the OP: With all due respect, why are you so seized with this? Your time is far more valuable than to be used as a free advisor by a wealthy family. Let them figure it out. The kid is at a competitive east coast school and has a rich father, he has better resources as his disposal than 99.9% of US children.</p>
<p>Ah, she’s my best friend, her daughter who went to Harvard was my son’s best friend from the time they were both toddlers until college. We’re talking 25 years of friendship here - I’m retired, with just my blog and a few projects underway, how better to use my time? This is my version of community service, if you will, I take care of my loved ones.</p>