How important are Honors and AP courses in the Admissions Process?

Applying to College
1

<p>I am a Sophomore and currently attend one of the most competitive private schools in California. I have an English teacher this year who taught at a public high school last year. She said that our standard courses are like Honors level at her old school. I believe her. One of my friends who attended my school this year, transferred to his local public school after our Winter Break. He said that the homework load was A LOT less.
I just want to know how important AP/Honors courses are in the admissions process (UC's specifically).
I'm in one AP class this year where I have a flat B. I don't have much trouble with my standard/regular classes except for a B+ in Spanish (Spanish has always been my worst subject).<br>
I really want to attend my dream school, UCLA, but I know I shouldn't be hopeful at all because of my lack of AP courses. I plan on taking one honors class next year, but I don't know if I should talk to my teachers about AP English or Chem Honors. I have no idea what I want to be or what I want to major in. </p>

<p>I did pretty poorly my freshman year, and lackluster my 1st semester this year (I was fighting big depression). As of right now, my weighted GPA is 3.88 and my UW is 3.72.<br>
I'm Filipino or Pacific Islander as well.. which ... well... lowers my chances in the admissions process already?</p>

<p>Overall, the reasons why I don't want to take the AP courses is because they cause me too much stress. I get stressed very easily and having 1 AP course is stressful enough. I actually want to enjoy high school by taking the regular courses and acing them... which will make me enjoy the class in the process while worrying less. Again, I just get really worn out and stress very easily when it comes to school. I have a lot of pressure on me.
This summer I'm taking SAT prep classes at my school, and plan on studying a considerable amount for the SAT outside the classroom. I know that the SAT will be critical, since my classes lack AP/Honors. </p>

<p>As for ECs I played basketball all my life until my sophomore year. I still play for a club team though. In my lifetime I have probably done 100+ hours of community service, and will take a leadership role for my Community Service group next year. I am a part of 2 clubs as well (no leaderships). I really want to do something worth while in the summer to put on my resume. I know the UC's like people with 'passions' but I don't really have one that is specific. </p>

<p>My goal is to go to either UC Davis or my dream school, UCLA. Those are the schools of my choice, or my 'reaches.' My brother will be transferring to Davis next year from UCI (once again got rejected from UCLA). </p>

<p>So, with all the info I have given to you about myself, how important will Honors and AP classes be when applying to both UC Davis and UCLA? I have been thinking about my college essays and I don't know whether to write about something I love, or something that has really shaped my personality, like my past suicidal thoughts earlier this year. I don't know whether a 'serious' topic for the Personal Statement is a good thing. And after various CC threads on acceptance and chances, I've started to become even more doubtful for my chances. Everyone here has either a 4.1+ and have tons of ECs.</p>

<p>Thanks for reading, and any feedback is appreciated!</p>

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<p>UCs and CSUs give +1 weighting for up to 8 semesters’ worth of honors and AP courses that you got C or higher grades in when calculating your high school GPA for admissions purposes (note that 9th grade course grades are not included, though 9th grade courses used to fulfill a-g requirements still have to be passed with C or higher grades).</p>

<p>You can use <a href=“http://doorways.ucop.edu%5B/url%5D”>http://doorways.ucop.edu</a> to check which courses are designated as honors at your public or private high school in California.</p>

<p>However, with the holistic readings now in use at many UC campuses, they are likely to consider whether you took the honors and/or AP courses available to you at your high school.</p>

<p>In theory, race or ethnicity is not supposed to be considered in UC admissions. (Most CSU admissions is by the CSU eligibility index calculated from your GPA and test scores.)</p>

3

<p>“I get stressed very easily and having 1 AP course is stressful enough”</p>

<p>What AP class you took sophomore year? The first one is always stressful (world history or euro typically). You will be compared with your peers in school to see your class rigor.</p>

<p>Hate to say it, but you need to be at least in the top 10% at the minimum for ucla/ucb.
Take AP English , regular chem (if chem honors is not weighted). AP psych is another one.</p>

<p>Davis might be easier but you still would need close to a 4.0 weighted gpa…</p>

4

<p>The state schools don’t really differentiate between rigor of schools. You’ll need AP to be competitive at most UCs.</p>

<p>If hard classes stress you, why would you want to go to a highly competitive college?</p>

5

<p>I hate to say it, and I disagree with it personally, but the unwritten rule is that college admission folk at highly competitive colleges want to see AP courses over honors courses as a standard of comparison between applicants. With that said, there are plenty of schools who will look at the honors as the equivalent as APs but the higher you reach on the competitive scale, the more they want to see those APs. </p>

<p>Google “Race to Nowhere” and view the movie if you can find it and see what you think. </p>

<p>You might want to limit APs courses to those courses that interest you.</p>

<p>My son spent considerable time this year, his senior year, doing an internship at a highly competitive college in the area of neuroscience as opposed to doing APs. It help to reconfirm his interest in the subject and gave him research experience as a high school student. It took a lot of his time and it will help personally next year more than APs.</p>

<p>In the end though, even though he took a number of honors courses throughout high school, I believe he did not gain admissions to a few schools because he did not have the typical AP resume expected of applicants. </p>

<p>Whatever you do, forget about discussing suicidal thoughts in your college essay. To be frank, no admissions committee wants to import a high risk student to their campus in my opinion.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

6

<p>I’m concerned that you say the AP course “stressed” you and that you “get stressed very easily”. Learning healthy ways to deal with things that make you anxious is more important than the number of AP courses you take. Do your parents and school counselor know about how stresses you feel? If not, talk with them. A good therapist should be able to help you master the “de-stressing” skills that you need before you get to college. Why do I say this? I know a young person who lived pretty successfully with her anxious temperament until she got to college. Neither she nor her parents understood how debilitating the anxiety was until she had failed out of college. She’s now doing well at her local CC but it has been a very rough six years.</p>

7

<p>I have been visiting colleges; both safeties and competitive. The consistent theme I have received from admissions is that the three most important things in the admission process are:</p>

<p>HS transcript – did you take rigorous courses in HS. They will compare you against your HS’s school profile. If your HS doesn’t offer AP/IB for example, they will not compare you against other applicants that had those opportunities; but if your HS does offer them, they will. So, you need to take some if you can. </p>

<p>College Essay – they want to get to know you.</p>

<p>Recommendations - what do your teachers know about you.</p>

<p>Personally, if I had to pick one of the above that could provide the most positive or negative impact it would be the essay; next would be the recommendations.</p>

8

<p>Taking the hardest classes and doing well (mostly A’s and a sprinkle of B’s) is very important. My cousin and I go to the same high school, we are both white males, and both play sports. Our unweighted GPA’s are very similar. However I took the higher level classes (AP’s and honors) and my cousin took the standard classes. I got into many colleges he did not get into. Our math SAT’s were similar but my reading and writing were higher (probably due to my high level english classes).</p>

9

<p>The way I understand it, AD’s at these competitive universities want to see the most rigorous schedule that your HS offers. Your GC will send a school profile and chances are they are familiar with your HS curriculum. </p>

<p>But having said that, I would tend to agree with Waverly & the others. While taking these tough courses is great preparation for college… if it causes great stress for you then as a mom, I would encourage you to take the course level that you can manage successfully and set your sights on good academic fits for you. </p>

<p>It is really hard on this forum to not compare yourself to other students, but you have to do what’s best for you. There is a university out there with your name on it!</p>

10

<p>I would look at the Naviance for your school and see how your GPA stacks up. With private schools it’s very tough to generalize.</p>

11

<p>There is absolutely no question but that you will not be competitive unless you take AP and UC-approved honors level courses. (Not all courses your school designates as honors may meet the UC-approval, so you should find out from your GC. That was a big shock this fall when my son did the UC Common App. It does not mean he didn’t received some recognition that they were honors, but some of his honors classes did not provide the bump that the UC-approved honors and AP classes did for the weighted GPA. If I recall, it was only his Honors Chemistry class that had gone through the approval with UC so that he got the 5.0 bump. I have since written to his principal to insist they get the UC stamp of approval on as many of the Honors classes as possible so the kids get the numerical benefit as well as the content benefit.) This next story is only anecdotal, but it is important. My son’s best friend had essentially a 4.0, but he took few or no honors and AP classes. Sure, they were “rigorous” as they were college prep classes, but they were definitely not as demanding as all the HP and AP classes my son took. His buddy even got a 36 on the math portion of the ACT. My son’s unweighted GPA, then, was lower than his friend’s, but weighted, far higher because of the HP/AP bumps. End of story, his best buddy was rejected from EVERY UC campus. My son was admitted to one of his top choices (UCSD). I had warned my son about his buddy’s lack of rigor way back when, and it came to pass. Obviously this story lacks statistical significance, but you only have to look at the statistics for the accepted UC cohort of 2012 to know that rigor, high GPA, and high test scores are essential. Factor in 25% or more now being admitted from out of state with LOWER statistics than California residents, and you have got a snowball’s chance in h— of getting admitted to UCB or UCLA without AP classes. All of you are under stress, so your stress is no excuse unless you have a documented medical or psychological situation that might serve as an exemplar. I strongly recommend you form study groups with like-minded AP students and other structures to ensure your success in your AP classes.</p>

12

<p>One more thought about the “suicidal thoughts” of the past. Please make sure you are receiving support for you well being. High school is unquestionably over the top stressful, so get the support you need. I also agree with the mom who said you may want to look at other “dream” universities that don’t have the crazy academic demands that the UCs do. Even going the CC route and transferring to Davis is a definite possible route to lessen the stress factor. Or UC Merced. Kids have a great chance of transferring w/in the UCs, as you have seen with your bro. As for using it as a topic for the essay, I would be very careful and seek the advice of your GC. Universities have a sprinkling of suicides every year (I can think of at least three at Ivy League/Stanford in recent months), and if you come across as this fragile, it may affect your chances of admission if for no other reason than universities DO NOT want students dying on their watch.</p>

13

<p>I agree about NOT writing “suicidal thoughts” in personal essays. Please seek counseling to manage stress/anxiety.</p>

<p>If you found high school tough, college is much much harder. Plus you don’t have your parents safety net and home and too many distractions. </p>

<p>The key is ‘go to a college where you can do well’. UCLA and UCB have top tier students and it can be very stressful. Consider other UCs - UCSB, UCI, UCD. But it is still hard to get in, going to CC is another way and works well for some folks. Some who did not get to a UC are looking at Arizona and Oregon as well.</p>

<p>If you can’t handle AP, just take 1-2, drop the honors if it is not weighted. Just aim for A’s in your junior year. Honestly, ECs take a second spot to your GPA.</p>

14

<p>Every high school student and every parent of every high school student thinks their school has the most rigorous curriculum and workload. And how unfair it is. </p>

<p>“If they (the colleges) only knew how much tougher it is for us (compared to some other school).”</p>

<p>Have no fear. The college admissions offices keep very detailed statistics. They knew which schools are “tougher” than others.</p>

<p>And, though I’m in principle against AP classes, it is at least a universal test. Scoring a “four” on an AP test is the same no matter which school one has attended.</p>