<p>I am in the process helping my son to select his junior year's courses and start to realize that it is conflicting between well-balanced and highest weighted GPA. My S loves the marching band that is just a regular course without any extra credit even though it is very selective to make the marching band (they call it GT band) as a freshman. He will also take Sapnish 3 (Honors), AP Calculus C, AP English, AP Biology, AP Govermnet and GT Physics. Assuming he gets all As (most likely will), it is still not enough for him to make the #1 because of the marching band. School counselor suggests him to keep both band and spanish. </p>
<p>My S is puzzled: he is the best student (PSAT 230) in school, but cannot get #1 rank because other kids choose to skip band. My S has a very strong music background and can easily get 5.0 GPA by taking musical theory AP over the band. Any thoughts to share?</p>
<p>To ultraselective colleges? Sure, to some extent, although being #1 is not usually important precisely because of issues like this. Some merit scholarship programs at public university and second-tier privates may put a lot of weight on #1 or #2 class rankings though.</p>
<p>To your son? I sure hope not. It would be pretty awful to look yourself in the mirror at 17 and see someone who had given up something he really loved in order to “win” a competition as empty as high school class rank. As a personal and educational matter, I don’t think anyone would advise him to do that, and certainly not any elite college admissions people. (They would strongly advise him to continue doing what he loves.)</p>
<p>Is that path risk-free to him? No, he could miss out on this or that acceptance. But the alternative of giving up something he loves for the paper chase is a lot riskier, for elite college admissions, but more importantly for his education and for his soul.</p>
<p>Agree with JHS, and moreover when his GC writes his college recommendation, the GC should write that X chose to pursue his love of music despite the fact that doing so meant he had to sacrifice the chance to be val/sal despite being one of the very top students in his class. ANY college worth its salt would prefer that to a GPA drone. But talk to the GC and make sure that s/he thinks of writing it. (You can’t actually tell them what to say, but you can plant the seed!)</p>
<p>Another route would be to pursue music at a high level in another context, such as the regional youth symphony/wind ensemble, playing in the pit orchestra at school productions and elsewhere, and take AP Music Theory if it interests him. In fact, if he really loves music, he will find such musical venues broadening for his musicianship. Marching bands don’t play many symphonies. :)</p>
<p>Do valedictorians general have better chances than the kid who ends up #5? Yes, but many (perhaps even most) colleges will prefer the kid who does band over the grade grubber. Most GC will be willing to address the issue in their letter of recommendation with a statement like this: “dragonson was a stellar student who would have ranked ___ rather than ___ if school rules did not require us to included unweighted band grades in his GPA.”</p>
<p>Argh… S1 graduated early so he was not ranked. Did not matter in the least. His record spoke for itself, though I assume that the GC also wrote an explanation of his odd transcript.</p>
<p>It’s more important that he take band than that he be ranked #1 in his class. Even ultra-selective colleges are looking for kids that have passions and interests that they develop through discipline and hard work, not just kids who spit out A’s. They have hundreds of applicants who are straight-A students, so what separates one straight-A from another are the things besides grades, the special unique skills or interests that only that student has developed. </p>
<p>He should stick with both Spanish and band. He may not graduate #1 in his class, but he’ll still easily end up in the top 5% (and percentages, in my honest opinion, are much more important than firm rank number), and he’ll be a happier, more well-rounded student, better equipped for a college life that will hopefully be a mix of academic and personal interests.</p>
<p>I advise you to check your high school student handbook very carefully. Is it possible to take band Pass/Fail or as an audited course? How about as an independent study? This way (at some high schools at least) they appear on the transcript, demonstrate interest, and may not count into and lower GPA.</p>
<p>^^ I think the problem is not that band lowers this kids GPA, but since band is not a weighted course an “A” in bad does not raise his GPA as much as an A in AP Music Theory. Also, if the marching bad is as selective as the OP noted, then you probably can’t audit it or take it pass/fail.</p>
<p>Sometimes I think you have to look at it this way. Will it really come down to one class making a difference? Would he or you actually have him give up marching band, something he loves and feel good about that? - probably not.</p>
<p>In my son’s school, the opposite happens. For the last several years the val/sal repeatedly have been kids in music because there are 3 honors classes music kids can take that non-music kids can’t (honors band, honors choir and a special performance honors group). It’s almost impossible with rank to “catch up” to the music kids. My son is in band, but just takes regular, not honors for two reasons 1. He just started playing an instrument in 10th grade - never had read a note of music in his life before. 2. Though he could have taken band “honors” he philisophically could not do it because HE knows he doesn’t have the skills to honestly EARN the honors - it’s a values call.</p>
<p>Long story short, even without the years of honors music credit he is currently “neck and neck” for the val spot. Whether he gets it or not, he says is not the issue. The issue is that he got where he wanted - doing well and having fun - on his terms, not on paper/numbers terms. </p>
<p>So who knows where your son might be in a year. He could be at the top either way or perhaps even if he takes the honors music, he might not claim the top spots. In the end, it’s the experience (marching band) that will make him more rounded, not the extra “A”.</p>
<p>And at our HS the opposite happens for another reason: grades are unweighted. Kids who already play a band instrument reasonably well have an easy A on their transcript. (It’s not an honors group.) Kids who play a non-band instrument–ie, strings-- have no easy A class option because there is no orchestra. They have to learn a new instrument (piano, guitar) or take music theory or do studio art–which is extremely time consuming and not an easy A–to satisfy the arts requirement, in addition to their outside schedule of lessons and practice and often rehearsal/performance with the youth symphony. So the vals and sals are almost always band kids, partially because of those 8 As.</p>
<p>It is encouraging to hear all your opionions. He should be happy with his selection of band and spanish. Even so, he will still be the top 3 out of 3-400 students. He takes marching band just because he loves it. He has had many chances perform piano concerts at places like Kennedy Center and Carnegie Hall.</p>
<p>Wow, dragonboyson is very accomplished! I think that as long as the GC presents him properly, he should not have a problem. </p>
<p>And–can’t resist an admissions strategy tip, after all this is CC – when the time comes, don’t forget to do a music supplement and to get a recommendation from his piano teacher or other person who knows him well in that context.</p>
<p>Rank is only important at schools that use that for selection purposes…</p>
<p>However, if the goal is to have your son graduate as the Val, then selecting AP courses over non-AP courses can make the difference. My son was the Val, and he won over a girl who took one less AP class than he did.</p>
<p>It’s hard to ignore all of the “I wish we knew” posts I’ve read here. Although I believe a child should pursue his passions, there have been many threads her written by parents and students who lamented not qualifying for scholarships or watching lesser accomplished students get into top colleges their child did not.</p>
<p>The simple fact is that about 40% of the class at a mid tier ivy was val or sal.</p>
<p>Hopefully none of that matters and your DS can pursue what he loves, but read through the archives and understand the full picture given his specific goals.</p>
<p>As you will read through out these threads, not all HS have ranking systems and if they do they are not the least bit standardized…so class rank is never the #1 factor any college uses to choose their applicants. Often they would love to see a % rank instead and the top 1-5% is great!! As a mom of a son that stayed in band for 4 years, I will tell you that he was able to write about this experience in a very creative way. Band also provided him with valuable leadership experience. He will be attending the U of Michigan. Many band kids at our school are also in the IB program and heading to the Ivies.</p>
<p>I have always been very, very suspicious of that particular figure at that particular college, since something like 40% of its students come from schools that don’t rank, and since I know darn well that there isn’t a single “val or sal” among my children’s several friends there. (All of whom were ranked very highly if they went to a school that ranked, by the way, but not #1 or #2, or top 1%. Top 2%, yes.) I can’t believe my corner of the world is so unique.</p>
<p>There must be some way they justify that number, but I’ll eat my hat if it’s not significantly cooked.</p>
<p>Yes, the number only includes those actually ranked, but I do believe it because that’s who they take from average high schools. when I worked in admissions at Penn, there was great effort put into figuring out rank for those whose schools did not officially rank. Never made much sense to me, but tese schools care about rank a great deal.</p>
<p>I look at Penn today–98% ranked in top 10% of high school class. As an alumni interviewer I see who they are accepting. Rank matters.</p>
– when the time comes, don’t forget to do a music supplement and to get a recommendation from his piano teacher or other person who knows him well in that context.</p>