<p>Hello.
How much emphasis do Ivy graduate schools like Harvard, Yale, and Princeton place on EC?
I know EC is equally as important as GPA for getting into Ivy college, but is it the same for Ivy graduate school?
Thanks.</p>
<p>EC - you mean like extra-curriculars? Virtually irrelevant. </p>
<p>The most important "extra" thing you can do is get involved in research relevant to your field. Other than, get excellent grades, get to know three or more professors pretty well (you'll need them to write LORs for you). Fall of your junior is not too soon to begin work on your statement of purpose. Begin to practice for the GRE about then (if your field requires it).</p>
<p>That covers what will be important: GPA, research and recs, SOP, and GRE, pretty much in that order.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that the Ivies are VERY small universities. Many departments have graduate classes of 4 or 5 students in any given year and will be getting 100 or more applications for those spots.</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply.
Currently, I'm a freshman.
Most accepted applicants to Ivy colleges are well-rounded, with lots of extra-curricular activities (volunteer hours, clubs, etc.) besides high grades, but is it not true for accepted applicants of Ivy grad?
Could you please tell me what GPA (both overall CGPA and senior GPA) I should have to be safe?
How important is freshman GPA to Ivy grad schools? Due to transition from high school to university, I didn't start off this year right, but I'll surely do much better in 2nd semester and 3rd semester (my university is trisemester system) now that I figured out how to do well in university.
In college, are there things like high school AP that will give your grad school application a bonus score?
Does junior correspond to 3rd year?
How many and what kind of researches are considered excellent?
How can I get involved in research relevant to my field?
What is statement of purpose?
Lastly, where can I view statistics of previous years' students accepted into Ivy grad schools?
Sorry for asking too many questions.</p>
<p>What major are you?</p>
<p>Assuming you NOT talking about Law/Business/Med school (which are all peculiar special cases of grad school)...</p>
<p>First, there is no difference in admissions to Ivy grad schools vs. anywhere else. In many fields, the Ivies are definite "also rans" - you'd be foolish to take Harvard over say, the University of Michigan in most engineering fields. All are very competitive - admit rates at any top program will be in the 5-8% range.</p>
<p>There is no pre-defined "safe" GPA anywhere. A guy with a perfect 4.0 and 800/800/6 GRE could well be rejected because of poor research skills for example. You should aim for the highest possible GPA. Depending on your major and the programs you're looking forward to, anything from 3.4 on up will be fine. Some fields will be more competitive than others and that's where your research and LORs will help you most. Overall GPA and GPA in major will be most important. By your senior year you'll be taking mostly high-level courses in your major anyway (unless you save a couple electives to even things out).</p>
<p>No there's nothing like AP, though one can often take graduate level courses "with permission of instructor". Your school will have a standard procedure for that sort of thing. </p>
<p>Research depends on your major and what you're looking for in grad school. I'm a Classics major looking at Classical Archaeology. I was lucky (and persistent) enough to get funding for a trip to Pompeii to survey some little rooms called "cellae meretriciae". The paper that came out of that will be submitted for publication after this semester (I also managed to turn it into an independent study course). </p>
<p>In most sciences/engineering fields there will be fairly formal programs for undergrad research. You want to look for things like "Honors Thesis" or "Senior Research Project". Your department is the place to ask that question.</p>
<p>Yes, Junior is 3rd year.</p>
<p>SOP - this is a short essay that you write that explains why you want to attend a particular graduate program, what your intended specialty will be and why you are an excellent fit at that program.</p>
<p>Very few universities publish statistics on grad school admissions. The Ivies, being private schools, are particularly bad about it. You can get some information from their websites, but its very hit-or-miss. As you get further in your education, you'll be able to talk with your professors about grad school and they will have a very good idea of where you will fit well and what the "real" chances are at a particular school.</p>
<p>Which leads me to - FIT. You will be spending 5-8 years getting a PhD so personal fit with a department is VERY important. Grad school is a much more personal operation than undergrad or highschool. So focusing in on 8 east coast schools (some of which will probably NOT be exceptional in your field) is well, crazy. </p>
<p>For example, if you are looking at hard sciences, you should also be looking at the California system and many of the huge state universities in the mid-west. My field, Classics, used to be topped by Harvard, but Berkeley is probably #1 these days, with Michigan, Chicago, and Texas up there as well (and yes, Princeton, Yale, and Brown are in the top 10 also).</p>
<p>There is a pretty good book called "Getting What You Came For" that explains the grad school process in fairly good detail. It is ludicrously out of date in terms of computer usage, but the other details are good.</p>
<p>For now, focus on getting the best grades possible and getting to know your professors. And have some fun - this might be your last chance for quite a while!</p>
<p>WilliamC, You're awesome! Thank you so much for thoroughly answering all my questions.</p>
<p>also be aware that in many fields, ivy is not the way to go for grad school. for example, in my field, only 2 ivies are reputable.</p>
<p>Really? I thought Ivy grad schools were equally as reputable as Ivy colleges.</p>
<p>Ivy grad schools are generally very good; none of them are terribly ranked (at least in my field, computer science). However, the Ivies have to compete with Stanford, MIT, UC Berkeley, UIUC, University of Texas at Austin, and some other highly ranked universities, public and private. Those schools also have very good undergraduate programs, some of which are superior to the Ivies in certain fields. And, with undergraduate admissions, don't overlook schools that do not award PhDs (Harvey Mudd and Cal Poly [San Luis Obispo] come to mind).</p>
<p>The Ivies are very good graduate schools, but they are not the best at everything, and the best of the non-Ivies do compete.</p>
<p>Graduate school reputation varies highly by program, and the strength of a particular program is really all you should be concerned about. </p>
<p>It wouldn't be wise to go to a school simply because its undergraduate ranking is high -- you should only care about the school's excellence in your field or sub-field.</p>
<p>"It wouldn't be wise to go to a school simply because its undergraduate ranking is high -- you should only care about the school's excellence in your field or sub-field."</p>
<p>Exactly. I would be a fool to go to Harvard for clinical psychology, whereas no one would believe me if i were to tell them that some of the top programs for clinical psych (which, with an overall average acceptance rate is hovering around 5%, is considered to be the most competitive graduate program to get into) are at Iowa, Oregon, and SUNY Stonybrook.</p>
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GPA, research and recs, SOP, and GRE, pretty much in that order.
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<p>I would actually say that GPA is about 3rd in importance, unless it's truly terrible. Research and recs almost always come first, and usually are far away the most important parts of your rec's. I know plenty of people with near 4.0's who couldn't get into any top programs, and I know people with rather middling GPA's who nevertheless got into all of their top choices. </p>
<p>For example, our eminent poster, molliebatmit, got something like a 3.3/4 GPA but nevertheless got into most (probably all) of the top Biology PhD programs and will be attending Harvard. I know several other MIT engineering students who had lower GPA's than she did but nevertheless got back into MIT. Their keys were strong endorsements from profs coupled with strong research experience, including, in some cases, publications in top journals. </p>
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Also, keep in mind that the Ivies are VERY small universities.
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<p>I think this actually varies from Ivy to Ivy. Some Ivies are small. Some aren't. Harvard, for example, is fairly decent sized, as far as graduate schools go. For example, in the year 2006 alone, Harvard conferred 483 PhD degrees. Couple that with "Phd-equivalent" degrees like the Doctor of Science, Doctor of Theology, Doctor of Education, etc. (but not M.D. or J.D. which are obvioulsy not Phd-equivalents), and you are talking about 550 or so PhD or equivalent degrees conferred. That's fairly large, relatively speaking. </p>
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you'd be foolish to take Harvard over say, the University of Michigan in most engineering fields
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I would be a fool to go to Harvard for clinical psychology,
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<p>I wouldn't classify such a person as a 'fool'. I would simply say that different people have different goals. Some people really do just want to go to Harvard just for the brand-name. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that, particularly when you consider the fact that obtaining a tenured academic position or a strong industry position is rather difficult in some fields. </p>
<p>Heck, even completing the PhD itself is far from certain, as attrition rates in many programs exceed 50%. If you choose Harvard, you can at least say that, for the rest of your life, that you are a Harvard alumni (as Harvard considers any student who has attended for 1 year to be an 'alumni', whether he graduated or not), and you may also be able to pick up a consolation master's degree, which means that you now have a Harvard degree. What if you turn down Harvard for Stony Brook, and then end up not being able to complete your PhD at Stony Brook? Or what if you actually get your PhD in clinical psychology from Stony Brook, and then can't get an academic/research position? At least with a consolation master's from Harvard, you can go off to management consulting or investment banking. </p>
<p>Hence, Harvard is clearly the risk-averse choice. If nothing else, it at least gives you the security of the general brand name of the school. If you end up having to take a job outside of your field, that general brand name is going to be mighty useful. </p>
<p>I'll give you an example. I know a guy from Turkey who is getting his doctorate at Harvard, even though he doesn't really think that Harvard has the best program in his field and he got admitted to several other programs that are probably better in his field. He chose Harvard for one simple reason - he intends to go back to Turkey to work, and maybe even one day run for political office, and the truth is, the people in Turkey don't really know about his field. In fact, hardly any of them know much about American universities at all. All they will see is the Harvard brand name. He told me that the mere fact that he went to Harvard, regardless of whether he even graduates or not, will get him a very nice cushy teaching/consulting job back in Turkey. Heck, even if doesn't even manage to graduate from Harvard, he would probably still end up with a nicer job back in Turkey than what he could get if he actually finished his PhD at a school that is higher regarded within his particular discipline, but that has a lesser worldwide brand-name. Whether we like it or not, Harvard has the indisputably best general brand name in the world when it comes to higher education. </p>
<p>I would hardly characterize this guy as being 'foolish'. In fact, the exact oppositie is true - this is a very sharp and shrewd guy. Rather, he just has different goals. Frankly, if I was him, I'd probably be doing exactly the same thing. And that's the point - different people have different goals in life. Some people really do want to garner the highest possible academic respect within their discipline. Other people want to accomplish different goals. That's not a matter of 'foolishness', it's just a matter of different preferences.</p>
<p>nice point sakky</p>
<p>except for the fact that harvard clinical psych, while in existance, isnt accredited and therefore would be a detriment to ones career. so while a phd in clinical psych from harvard would no doubt be very impressive to your friends, you would have a very hard time trying to find a clinical position anywhere.
(i know this is a very specific case, but i'm just trying to illustrate how undergrad name can have little to no influence on graduate program)</p>
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except for the fact that harvard clinical psych, while in existance, isnt accredited and therefore would be a detriment to ones career. so while a phd in clinical psych from harvard would no doubt be very impressive to your friends, you would have a very hard time trying to find a clinical position anywhere.
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<p>Well, again, you have to ask whether that's important. For some people, that's not important. Like, for example, if the Turkish guy I know was doing clinical psych (which he is not), then I doubt he would care. Like I said, his plan is to go back to Turkey to teach and maybe later eventually become a politician. He wouldn't care about getting a clinical position either in the US, and probably not in Turkey either. Besides, I think the system of licensing and accreditation in Turkey is substantially different from the system in the US. </p>
<p>I would hardly see how his going to Harvard would be 'detrimental' to his planned career. In fact, by any reasonable calculation, Harvard is the best choice for him considering what his plans are. Like I said, different people have different goals. Not everybody is really gung-ho about trying to pursue the 'absolute best' education within their particular discipline. Plenty of people just want to find a program that is academically 'good enough' and that also allows them to fulfill other goals in their lives.</p>