<p>The question is pretty much summed up in the title. Does it really matter if my ds is not planning or wanting to go to an Ivy League school? If his GPA is pretty strong and the SAT score is respectable, does it really matter?</p>
<p>He hasn't decided yet what he is going to major in but clearly doesn't like math or science so he doesn't really want to take high level courses in these subjects.</p>
<p>Do you have any advice?</p>
<p>It depends on where he is applying. For purely stats based schools it won’t matter much or at all; for schools with competitive admissions it will be more important.</p>
<p>There are tons of kids who present as liberal arts majors–sounds like what your son will be doing–who don’t take the most challenging math and science courses offered. The ideal balance in that case is to take the most challenging Eng, Hist, etc. and then a more manageable math (stat is often chosen, and the knowledge is useful in all fields) and science (a non-math based course like enviro, geology, etc.). If he’s tempted to skip math and/or science altogether, be sure you have reviewed the HS course requirements of every college on his list to learn whether 3 years will suffice, as many schools have a 4-year requirement for one or both. (And for that matter, your HS may require 4 years in one or both.)</p>
<p>Obviously, the one thing all colleges want to see is seniors fully engaged, not slacking. Most colleges will consider course rigor to some degree to assess how challenged he’s been over all four years and to evaluate his GPA/rank in the context of his HS course offerings and peer performance. (If you haven’t studied the “profile” your HS will provide to colleges, look for it on the school web site. It will give you a feel for one of the pieces of info/data a college admissions counselor will be working with when they review your son’s app.)</p>
<p>It is best to complete at least precalculus / trigonometry before going to college, since calculus and calculus-based statistics may need to be taken in college. Such courses are useful anyway for students of any major, as could a logic course from the philosophy department (or a math course with proofs).</p>
<p>your senior year courseload is very important for top schools. when your guidance office fills out your basic info as you submit your applications senior year, they can only check that box of “most rigorous courseload” off if you truly are taking the most rigorous classes.
Though this may not be an important factor at a lot of schools, in some cases if the school does not see that impressive courseload, they will move right along to the next applicant, given there is nothing absolutely outstanding in the rest of the application</p>
<p>Depends on the college. But generally it does kinda matter, but it won’t kill her unless she takes obvious blow off classes</p>
<p>It matters, but be careful. You need to check with the schools that he is intersted in. My daughter is also a senior and has a few top choices. We’ve been in touch with the admissions counselor with two of them for most of the past year.</p>
<p>We went back to this school recently for a visit and interview - the 1st thing the AO asked my daughter was “what classes are you taking this year”?</p>
<p>Here’s the problem. My daughter has struggled with math her whole life. She will be an english major and is in all AP english/history/language etc. math and science are “regular”.</p>
<p>She took Algebra II / Trig as a junior and did ok - I think she got low 80’s for the year. The colleges we have been speaking with know she is not a strong math student. </p>
<p>Her math choices for senior year were AP stats, pre-calc, and some other class (probably for kids who aren’t going to college at all LOL). Anyway, we thought AP stats would be her best bet and she even spoke with the teacher at the end of last school year. He thought she would do well.</p>
<p>Well, we asked the colleges what they thought about AP stats and they all said that’s fine except one - her 1st choice. They said they would really like to see pre-calc. Even though, looking at their coursebook, she will NEVER take ANY math remotely close to trig - never mind calc. </p>
<p>She registered for pre-calc and is struggling mightily. When we discussed this with her teacher and GC last year they actaully offered pre-calc as a pass / fail option. We kind of forgot about that and didn’t think any college would accept that.</p>
<p>Well, we’ll probably be deciding in the next day to go pass / fail. it’s too late to go into the AP stats class and if she wanted to go into the “other” math class she would have to give up either AP spanish, or journalism and she is editor of the school paper. I won’t let her do that. OR, she can just drop math completely senior year.</p>
<p>I sent emails to two of her top choices yesterday and was very happy to hear that they would both accept pass / fail for pre-calc (and believe me, “pass” will not be a slam dunk). We haven’t asked choice #1 but I don’t think they will agree. So, I think we will just say nothing and apply and see what happens. </p>
<p>the point of this long message is - and I wished I learned this a while ago, is you can’t do everything based on how it will look to a college. </p>
<p>Your son should challenge himself, have fun, and take the classes he enjoys.</p>
<p>I went to a college that the only requirement to get in was a pencil and a parking space. Not to sound arrogant but I’ve done extremely well and have had ivy grads working for me. Once you get out of school and get your first job, no one will ever care where you went to school or what your GPA was.</p>
<p>Just echoing what has been said upthread: It all depends on how selective of schools he will be applying to. The most selective schools want to see a rigorous course load throughout HS, including senior year, and want to see 4 years in each of the major subject areas. At slightly less selective schools it isn’t as important. Can you give us some examples of schools where he might want to apply?</p>
<p>Also echoing what has been said already - guidance counsellors cant check off the “most rigorous” curriculum box if one of the courses isn’t truly as rigorous as can be. I know for a fact one of the top universities, when they give you a “rating” (something they do to all applications before they are read) actually takes off points if you take stats and not a more serious math course.</p>
<p>He is thinking of applying to Drexel and The College of New Jersey, possibly Penn State - Abington or Temple. I don’t think these would be considered highly selective, correct?</p>
<p>TCNJ is probably the most selective of the schools you list. TCNJ indicates the “Rigor of secondary school record” is “Very Important”. However, both years required and recommended for both science and math is 3. I’m actually a bit surprised that they aren’t 3 years required and 4 years recommended, given the “very important” rigor. So my opinion would be to take advanced classes in the subjects he does like, and not be too worried about not having advanced classes in all of the subjects.</p>
<p><a href=“http://ir.intrasun.tcnj.edu/cds/CDS_2010_2011.pdf[/url]”>http://ir.intrasun.tcnj.edu/cds/CDS_2010_2011.pdf</a></p>
<p>How do your son’s stats compare to the averages for these schools? How do the courses that he’s planning on taking compare to the courses he’s taken all along?</p>
<p>Taking significantly easier courses senior year than you’ve taken in the past, is probably a minus. In a close case, it could make the difference between acceptance and rejection. On the other hand, if your S is a very strong candidate at these schools, it may not make a difference.</p>
<p>Thanks so much sacchi for posting the document and thank you everybody else for your input. Interestingly enough, even though TCNJ says rigor is “very important”, the academic GPA is just “considered”. He’ll definitely be taking 4 years of English, math and social studies, probably science too.</p>
<p>I think he is getting sick and tired of this mantra “you have to do it for college” and I can see where he is coming from. Everybody says there needs to be a balance between school and social activities/fun but it’s not that easy. If you take harder courses, you’ll obviously spend much more time on homework. </p>
<p>For example, he is currently taking accelerated level pre-calculus but doesn’t want to take AP Calc next year or any AP level math for that matter so may be accelerated statistics, same with science - he does well in science courses but it’s not “his thing” so I am thinking may be taking sociology which is considered an elective could be a good compromise since he is really interested in that subject. </p>
<p>As far as his current credentials, it’s hard to say since he just started his Junior year and who knows how things will work out. For right now, he is doing pretty well - GPA above 4 (weighted) and he got 202 on his PSAT last year, taking one this year in a few days.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>Emily.</p>
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<p>He should be aware that if he takes calculus in college, it will be a full speed course like what AP Calculus BC tries to emulate. If he wants a more gentle introduction to calculus, he may want to take AP Calculus AB.</p>
<p>Knowledge of statistics is generally useful for a lot of subjects; he may want to take a statistics course (note that AP Statistics is often regarded as being high school level since many universities do not give subject credit for it).</p>
<p>Well, he doesn’t want to take any AP level math classes at all.</p>