how important is the school you attend for engineering?

College Majors Engineering Majors
21

<p>
[quote]
Sakky, you're right about Google but I'd say they are the exception and not the rule.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, but you must agree that it's a pretty darn big exception, given just how "hot" a place Google is to work at nowadays. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, I'd advise anyone noting that quote read the article and make note of the context the quote is made in. It points out that despite all the "brain power" at google may not be all it's cracked up to be

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not saying that I agree with the Google method of hiring. But it's not my call to make. Google is allowed to hire whoever they want to hire, and if they choose to place a premium on the top schools and raw scholastic metrics (like grades and SAT scores) rather than work experience, they have the right to do that. And they have certainly been exercising that right. </p>

<p>Another example would be the management consulting companies. I am still a bit amused to this day as to just how many engineering students from the top schools end up turning down engineering jobs for jobs in management consulting, i.e. companies like McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Booz Allen Hamilton, etc. And the fact is, these companies only recruit at certain schools. If you are not going to one of the schools that is in their list of recruitment stations, it's not going to be easy at all for you to get into the company. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/us_schools/mckoncampus/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/us_schools/mckoncampus/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

22

<p>Sakky, I agree with you and thats why I said, in my earlier posts, to see what companies recurit on campus before making a commitment. As a student, you don't necessarily need to have a ridiculous # of company's comming to recruit at your instituiton. However, you should be happy with the companies that do come to recruit. Getting your foot in the door is always the hardest part (including getting selected for the on campus interviews as the process is competitive everywhere).</p>

<p>In my next post, I'll give an abbreviated list of company's that regularly recruit from my school (Top 55 not top 25). Even the abbreviated list is pretty long (it's going to look a little cluttered because I'm copying and pasting the list, there are several companies on one line), and the full pdf list is just silly. </p>

<p>I've been pretty successful without being from a top 25 Univ. I've got a great job lined up with a great company, I've got the option to go to a top grad school if I so choose, and (most importantly) I feel like I got a lot out of my education and am technically competitive. Choosing the right school for you just takes a little research and planning.</p>

23

<p>3M Co. First Bank of Miami Microsoft Corp.
Accenture First Data Corporation Modcomp, Inc.
Adjoined Consulting The Aerospace Corporation Boston Scientific Florida Power & Light Company
Morgan Stanley
The Motorola Inc. AIG Gallup Organization Mount Sinai Medical Center
Allstate Insurance Company
GE Commercial Financial RE
Northern Trust Bank of Florida
Amber Worldwide Logistics General Electric Northwest Airlines
American Airlines General Mills Northwestern Mutual Financial Network
American Express General Motors Corporation Norwegian Cruise Line
Andrx Corporation Georgia Pacific Novartis Pharmaceutical Corporation
Answerthink, Inc. Greenberg Traurig LLP Noven Pharmaceuticals, Inc.
Assurant Solutions HASBRO Ocasa, Inc.
AT&T Wireless H.I.G. Capital Occidental Hotels & Resorts
Auxis Inc. Heat Group, The Office Depot, Inc.
AXA Advisors LLC. Heidrick & Struggles Palm Latin America
Bacardi U.S.A., Inc. Hellmann Worldwide Logistics,
Banco Popular Hewlett Packard Company Pinchasik Strongin Muskat Stein & Co.
Bank of America Holt Anatomical Principal Financial Group
Bankunited, FSB Home Depot, The Procter & Gamble
Bayview Financial Humana Inc.<br>
Brightstar Corp. IBM Royal Bank of Scotland
BroadSpan Capital Inktel Direct Corp Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd.
Burger King Corporation Integritas Investment Group LLC Ryder System, Inc.
Burson-Marsteller International Tennis Championships (ATP) Sanford, Latin American Division of Newell Rubbermaid
Business News Americas Intersil Corporation Schreiber Foods, Inc.
Campbell's Soup Company Investrust Siemens Communications, Inc.
Canon Latin America Inc. JM Family Enterprises, Inc. Smith Barney Citigroup
Capitalink, L.C. Johnson & Johnson Sony BPLA
Cargill, Inc. JP Morgan Chase Spunlogic
Carnival Cruise Lines, Inc. Kaplan University Standard New York Securities
Catapult Learning Kelloggs Sterling Financial Investment Group
Central Intelligence Agency Kimberly Clark Stryker Latin America
Chevron Corporation KPMG, LLP SunTrust Bank, South Florida, N.A.
Citigroup Kraft Foods Target
CITRIX Systems Inc. Kroll Associates Team Enterprises USA
Colgate Palmolive Company L'Oreal USA Tech Data Corporation
Collegiate Images LAN Airlines, S.A. TRACFONE WIRELESS, INC.
Commercebank, N.A. LaSalle Bank SA Trivest Partners, L.P.
Consultis of Florida LCi Distributors, LLC Tupperware Corporation
Continental Airlines Lehman Brothers Tyco Fire & Security
Cordis, A Johnson & Johnson Company Lennar Corporation Tyson Foods, Inc.
Daimler Chrysler Lloyds TSB Bank PLC UBS
Del Monte Fresh Produce Company LNR Property Corporation United Technologies
Dell Inc. Loumar Enterprises, Inc. U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission
Deloitte & Touche Consulting LLP Lucent Technologies UBS International Inc.
Descartes Systems Group Madison Capital Group UBS Private Wealth Management
Deutsche Post World Net Business Consulting GmbH Magnum US Investments Inc. UPS Freight Services
DHL Express Manpower Inc. USCONDEX LLC
DHL Regional Services, Inc. Marcus & Millichap Investment Real Estate Vanguard Group
Diageo Mastercard International Vaxa Inc
Disney Vayan Marketing Group, LLC
E&J Gallo Winery Mattel, Inc. Wachovia Corporation
Electrolux Professional North America May Davis Group Walt Disney World Co.
Eli Lilly & Company Medtronic, Inc. Washingto Mutual
Ernst & Young Merck Western Union International
Fifth Third Bancorp MFM Group, Inc. Weyerhaueseur
Financial Technologies, Inc. MGM Mirage Whirlpool Corporation
Wyeth Consumer Healthcare</p>

24

<p>That's nice... Please point to the civil engineering company on that list. =&lt;/p>

<p>Sigh. I'm trying to help the <em>original poster</em>, who is getting a degree in <em>civil engineering</em>. The list of companies that recruit at your school more or less makes my point, that in civ, where there really aren't that many companies to start with, you'll be hard pressed to find a ton of desireable companies that recruit at your campus, unless you've got a gargantuan or particularly high-caliber civ department... and that means top ten. </p>

<p>Any other school, you'll have to go hunting for top-notch, fantastically interesting companies to work for, and when these companies receive your resume, they're not going to have someone down the hall that they can holler to and say, "Hey, Phil... How'd you enjoy your undergrad work at Montana Tech? I've got a guy here who says he did research with Professor Vandelay. Is he a quality guy? Should we fly this kid in for an interview?" because all they're familiar with are the top programs, since that's pretty much where they all came from anyhow... </p>

<p>It's not doomsday if you're not at a top program, but if you're not, you'll have to really distinguish yourself in some other way... So why not start distinguishing yourself during your undergrad career so that you can get a leg up into a top ten grad program, as I suggested to the OP?</p>

<p>I'm not saying anything about any other field, and I'm sure you've enjoyed great success wherever you are with whatever you do, but that's how it is in civil engineering. I'm not arguing any points aside from that one, and I'm not venturing beyond the industry that I know, but this <em>is</em> the industry that I know, and that's just how this industry is.</p>

25

<p>aibarr, the thread got hijacked and has turned into a more general, philosophical discussion. I don't know if anything having been said in the last few post will be particularly useful or relevant to the original poster. Sorry for the hijacking.</p>

<p>As for civil companies that recruit, I don't know much about civil employers. There are several companies listed (maybe in the above list maybe not, I don't konw). I did copy the profile of one of the premium recruiters who employ civil engineers, and is currenlty in recruiting mode at the school right now</p>

<p>URS CORPORATION</p>

<p>URS is the largest global engineering design firm and a leading U.S. federal government contractor providing a comprehensive range of professional planning, design, systems engineering and technical assistance, program and construction management, and operations and maintenance services. We have 29,000 employees in two divisions: the URS Division and the EG&G Division, which includes the operations of Lear Siegler Services. Together, we serve the U.S. federal government, state and local government agencies and private-industry clients, including Fortune 500 companies worldwide</p>

26

<p>In my geographic area, business and law are professions that many high powered employers only intervivew and recruit grads from specific graduate schools. </p>

<p>While I'm not familiar with recruiting in engineering, the posts above would suggest that earning an engineering degree from a decent but not highly prestigious university will not automatically prevent you from interviewing with most companies. </p>

<p>Is that correct?</p>

27

<p>Sort of... You'd have to be pretty spectacular to get noticed, though, if you weren't from one of the top programs. Like, if you went to a mid-tier business program and launched your own million-dollar corporation while getting your MBA and decided you wanted to work for Morgan Stanley or PWC or something, then they'd probably take a gander at your resume. If you'd managed to work your way through Podunk Law School and landed a part-time gig as an aide in Scalia's office, you'd probably be noticed, too.</p>

<p>It's just plain tough to be hired by the very best. You've got to get your foot in the door somehow, in order to get noticed and have a shot, and while you can prove yourself by being a superstar, it's a little easier to just go to one of the top programs, and then be a sub-superstar there.</p>

28

<p>Nice link.Mckinsey recruits from my campus.Great to know.Where's it located?</p>

29

<p>This is America, brand name always garners more attention, but isn't always necessarily better. Going to a top 10 Univ. will certainly be a benefit just because of the name recognition, but not going to a top 10 is far, far from a deal breaker in most instances. In engineering, one can get a considerable amount of real engineering experience, through internships, co-ops, and research, which will go a long way in helping a person obtain employment. You'll find that the majority of the people ;at any given facillity operated by a major compay; attended state/local/regional institutions, where that facillity is located, with the top 10 univ. filling out the rest of the employees.</p>

<p>As I said before, check a schools recruitment list and business network and see what companies recruit on campus, as that is going to be the easiest way into a company. The other methods are long shots for anyone. Most companies use an in house resume database very much like monster (that's where your resume goes when you submit it on line). An HR person will get a job description along with a list of keywords. The HR person will then search the database and take the first n number of resumes he/she feels are acceptable. You could be very well qualified and from a good university, but your resume never gets seen because it's too far down the list. A lot of positons also get filled on referral, (and A LOT of the top companies have a referral incentive program). </p>

<p>Also, law is a bit of a different animal. Law does not have any sort of tangible deliveriable, per se, so it's very difficult for a prospective employer to gauge your abilities by anything other than where you went to school and recommendations (unless you are fortunate enough to get some legal internships).</p>

30

<p>hey, I talked to the admission lady at Berkeley for graduate EE, she told me that they admit from all around, for instance they've admitted kids from Reed into EE.</p>

<p>edit: Oh yeh, I had to choose between UIUC for EE and UC Davis and Cal Poly and the likes. I didn't get into Berkeley and was bummed, I ended up choosing Davis though because you can always transfer to Urbana with good grades and some research experince, just do that.</p>

31

<p>If you are looking to work as an engineering right after getting your B.S. then the name of the school isn't that crucial. In fact you may be better off being a top student at a lower institution than being in the middle of the pack at a top institution. No matter what school you go to, it is your performance in school, work and the interview that will be most influential in landing you a job. I teach at a small student focused engineering program. Our students do very well in getting jobs both locally and nationally. Many companies haven't heard of us, but when the students are polished on their interview skills (because we work hard at this) they wow these companies and get jobs.</p>

<p>Graduate education is where you need to pay much closer attention to the rankings. Remember that the rankings have little to do with the actual quality of teaching and a lot more to do with research and the prestige of the insitituion. If you are looking to get a graduate degree, go to the highest ranked institution in your field of interest.</p>

32

<p>"for instance they've admitted kids from Reed into EE"</p>

<p>While I realize that this was meant to show that Cal admits into its EE grad program from a wide variety of schools, one reason is that graduates from schools like Reed earn PhDs at a disproportionate rate. E.g., Reed is fourth in the country (behind CalTech, Harvey Mudd and MIT) in the percentage of graduates who go on to earn a PhD in Sciences and Engineering.</p>

33

<p>So, say I have to choose between A and B for BME. Theyre both really good schools and B is much higher in the BME ranks (probably because A's is a concentration of an Applied Science degree). I want to go to graduate school; in fact, I am almost certain I have to. Should I go to the school I have loved all of my life (A) and enjoy my undergraduate career, or should I go to the place where I see the most oppurtunity right now (B).</p>

<p>On the other hand, A has a much smaller amount of students in the major (30) compared to B's (125-150). Should I go with personal attention or prestige? Does it really matter where I go for an undergraduate degree when I am applying to graduate school? I mean, obviously I will have to make good grades, but is there a significant difference in admission rate?</p>

<p>Some facts about the two:
A and B both have hospitals
A and B both have top ranked medical schools
A does not have an engineering school
B has an engineering school
A and B are very close to home
A practices grade deflation
B practice grade inflation</p>

34

<p>JMAN1211, </p>

<p>As has already been said, it depends on a lot of things. It will depend a lot on what the job market is like. More people apply to grad school in a tight market, so the admissions process becomes more competitive.
Right now, the job market is up so graduate admissions anywhere would probably be a little less competitive than usual.</p>

<p>Graduate school's look at a number of factors: undergraduate research, recommendations, engineering experience,test scores, school name, and grades more or less in that order.</p>

<p>As I said, I went to a to 50-55 university overall with an engineering rank in the top 80. I got into Cornell (not attending though). I've got two friends who got into MIT and one who didn't but got into GA Tech (all from my school). I also have a childhood friend who attended the University of Southern Mississippi ($5 for anyone who actually knows where that is without searching the net) for CS and got into Carnegie Mellon for CS. The common link between all of us is strong undegrad research, solid grades, and very good recommendations (though many of the professors who wrote my recommendations did get their Ph.D. from top universites and have very strong current or past research backgrounds).</p>

<p>Let's be honest and realistic, in the real world brand name does matter. All other things being equal between two applicants, many instituitons will look at where an individual went to school to get an idea of their competitiveness. However, as we all know, there are "easy" and "hard" professors at every school, so making cross school comparrisons becomes that much more hairy. Plus, many students from certain schools just seem to have high GPAs. For instance, I wrote on another thread that one of my older sisters graduated from Harvard. Looking at the program listing all the candidates for graduation, I estimated about 93% of all the students graduating are graduating with some kind of honors and about 89% are cum lade or above. Those seem like high numbers based on my personal experience. It seems like very few people graduate from Harvard with mediocre grades. So that begs the question, what does a 3.3 from Harvard really mean. Make of it what you will.</p>

<p>The upshot is, if you take care of the first 3 items I listed, and make sure you get good grades I'm certain you'll be able to get into a top 10, and 100% certain top 25. Of course, if you want to do go to grad school in BME, do not go to a school without an engineering program. Getting into engineerg grad school without a true engineering undergrad degree is doable, but it's a heck of a lot more difficult.</p>

35

<p>
[quote]
Of course, if you want to do go to grad school in BME, do not go to a school without an engineering program. Getting into engineerg grad school without a true engineering undergrad degree is doable, but it's a heck of a lot more difficult.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think this actually depends on the undergrad and grad degree program in question. From what I've seen, students who study physics or math at top undergrad programs seem to have little trouble getting into, say, top EECS graduate programs. In fact, many of the top computer scientists and computer engineers in the world, including many Turing Award winners, do not have undergrad degrees in CS or EE or CompE, but rather have undergrad degrees in math or physics.</p>

36

<p>Jason_Simms, I appreciate your detailed post. College A is UNC-Chapel Hill and College B is Duke. </p>

<p>I understand what youre saying about the difficulty of getting in BME grad school without a formal BME undergrad diploma. I know JHU requires that; the only place that I have seen that does not is Duke. </p>

<p>This decision has been a particulary difficult one because of the innate rivalry between the two schools. Being a UNC fan, it's hard to think that I will convert, but who knows. I guess my choice is still up in the air though. If anyone has any further advice, that would be brilliant. </p>

<p>Thanks a lot.</p>

37

<p>JMAN - why not "go" to both :) Go to UNC - because, you know you want to, and take some classes at Duke? Do something science-related at UNC (BIO?), figure out a way to do research with the Bio department and the hospital, seek out some Duke profs doing about the same thing, and kick butt.</p>

38

<p>OK I got a chuckle</p>

<p>Montana Tech is a real engineering school and is rated in the top 60 schools for non-doctoral schools by us news</p>

<p>Boeing, Exxon, Conoco and several large mining companies hire there</p>

39

<p>DRIZZET this may be of interest to you - <a href="http://www.olin.edu/on.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.olin.edu/on.asp&lt;/a> - and a couple of hours to skiing as well........................</p>

<p>Believe it or not but UNC and Duke both have ski teams too LOL</p>

40

<p>If I get into structural engineering, I would definitely want to work on the grandiose skyscraper, bridge, etc., projects. From what I can surmise, the chances of me doing that are minimal if I complete an undergraduate and graduate degree at the University of Houston as opposed to the University of Texas.</p>