<p>We are just beginning the college search process. It is very overwhelming! D will be a junior in the fall. I think we've ruled out larger schools in favor of smaller class sizes, but then, how small is too small? Would going to a college the size of her high school seem too small? She doesn't want to go to school in a huge city (no NY, but Boston is okay), but would a rural school be too isolated? Prestige is not a factor in our decision, but we only hear about the more well known schools. It is very confusing! We are going to visit a few colleges this summer, but don't expect to get a true feel as school is not in session.
We have played around with the College search tool, but it really doesn't narrow down the results enough.
Ideally, she'd love a school with a pretty campus, guaranteed freshman housing, not a big party scene, someplace that has really nice people. Midwest and East Coast preferable.
D is not a partier, is a very nice kid. She has a 3.8/4.08 GPA (as of now), pretty good ECs but not much in the way of out of school volunteering. She hasn't started any charities or run any events, but has held leadership roles.
We're not looking for Ivy here, but somewhere intellectually stimulating.
Thanks so much!</p>
<p>It depends on what your daughter likes. My best friend, a rising senior at Berkeley, wishes she went Harvey Mudd, or another sub 5,000 student tech school. I have some friends at my tiny LAC that wish they started out at larger schools from the get go. </p>
<p>Personally, I think telling someone to apply to only LACs or only larger schools is somewhat misguided because preferences change and the “feel” that a person craves might be available at small and large schools. For instance, someone who wants a college with a “hippy” vibe might look at University of Vermont, College of the Atlantic, Humboldt State, and UC Santa Cruz. Those schools range in size from a few hundred to well over ten thousand students, but all share similar characteristics. </p>
<p>As far as rural goes, it depends on the school. There are some rural colleges where a student has to try to be bored, and there are urban colleges where the on campus life is virtually nonexistent. I went to a rural school, one that’s a seven minute bike ride away from the nearest town. Were there times when I wished I could get some late night food or easily go off campus? Yes. Were there other times when I was extremely thankful that my school was basically the entire town? Yes. Would a student who would have thrived at NYU liked my school? No. But frankly, I would have hated NYU, and that’s ok. Some students prefer a more rural environment while others want a more urban one. </p>
<p>Take your kid on a tour of a few campuses that are similar in selectivity and see what she likes and doesn’t like about them. Also remember that students are remarkably flexible. I’m a liberal Jew who loves LACs, hates big college sports, and for major specific reasons, ended up at the University of Oklahoma, a huge DI school in the middle of one of the reddest states in the union. So far I love it here. I’m not saying don’t discount fit, but don’t think that there’s only a few perfect schools for your daughter.</p>
<p>But as far as narrowing it down is concerned, figure out how much you can afford, and start from there. If you want smaller class sizes, you might want to consider some of the masters universities in the Northeast if your daughter wouldn’t like a LAC. Well run honors colleges might be a good option, but your daughter will have to take classes with some of her less academic peers which might cause the class discussion to be lowered. </p>
<p>Also, if your daughter finds any aspect of a school appealing (even if she hates the rest of it), try to find other schools with that aspect. It could be a heavy emphasis on volunteering, a way that professors are encouraged to teach, or a special program the school offers. That might be a way to narrow down your options.</p>
<p>Here are a few things we did:
- D1 knew her probable major (and stuck through undergrad with it). D2 wasn’t so sure. So we got a Book of Majors from CollegeBoard and gave her colored post-its (green, yellow). She went through and marked majors/related careers that seemed interesting. There was a definite grouping in a couple of areas. This helps with the college search to have some idea of possible major areas (you want a college to at least offer those majors, and preferably to be strong in them).
- Took a copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges and a pack of post-it notes. Went through and marked colleges of interest to kid. Discussed, ran some net price calculators, narrowed list to about 20 schools.
- Made sure they were pretty much done testing by spring of junior year (D2 did retake a subject test fall of senior year, but that is it). You have a lot better idea of what schools are realistic with the test scores in hand, and it is less pressure in fall of senior year if the testing is all done.
- We visited – a lot. D1 saw it as a kind of shopping, so she loved college visits. D2 hates to shop, but saw college visits as a necessary evil. We would weave a visit or two in on various family trips, camp pickups, drives to grandparents, etc. This really helped my kids distinguish between the schools on their lists. They went on a tour, sat in on a class if possible (although D2 is attending a school she visited during the summer), ate in the cafeteria. We don’t love info sessions, but we went to them in the summer if they couldn’t go to class. D1 interviewed at some colleges. D2 is quite introverted and didn’t do any interviewing.
- We had a standard list of questions (form) that I filled out at each college (kids were fine with it, they didn’t want to do it). Added some questions as we went along and it became obvious other things were important. This was VERY helpful when it came time for the “Why College X?” essays.
- Also kept an eye on trending thoughts from my kids through late junior and senior year. For example, D2 honed in on Physics as a likely major when she took it her senior year. Before that she had been thinking bio… we tweaked her list a little because of this.
- D2 had reaches, matches, and a couple of safeties on her list. She had schools where she was very likely to get good merit aid, and one school close to home. This gave her some great options when spring of senior year came.
- D2 ended up accepted at a lot of different types of schools – she didn’t feel the need to pick one specific type for her applications (eg, small LAC). She had a good-sized top research university, a top LAC, a STEM school, a school in a consortium, a women’s college, a very rural LAC, and a couple others. Don’t feel constrained if your D likes some different types of schools, that was okay for us. In fact, it allowed her to keep her options open well into April.
- Final decision was made by going to 3 accepted student days (she could have done a 4th at the school close to home, chose not to). She ended up picking a different school than she thought she would going into those final visits. That wasn’t cheap, but I am glad we did it, as I think it led to the best possible choice for her.</p>
<p>She can start by learning, that’s all she needs to do at this stage–explore.</p>
<p>Get a Fiske guide and start her reading so she can learn about different cultures and characteristics of schools and what appeals to her. Almost all of them have something unique, or just in common with a few other schools, like open curriculum.</p>
<p>She can also look at the Colleges that Change Lives book or website to see some other interesting schools you don’t often hear about. </p>
<p>Many rural schools have vibrant involved campuses. Schools like Grinnell have a lot of money and can bring anything they want to campus. Often smaller schools facilitate year abroad programs.</p>
<p>If she develops an interest in a particular major that can give you some direction.</p>
<p>Think about financial considerations now. Are you full pay or do you qualify for need? Would you like her to try to get some merit aid so you pay less?</p>
<p>Many wise parents here recommend that you build your list from the bottom up. Start by identifying a safety or two. Often this is your instate options. The safety must be something you can afford and where your daughter will be happy to attend. Then you can add match schools, then reach.</p>
<p>I strongly second BrownParent’s suggestion of getting a copy of the Fiske Guide. It gives you a feel for the school beyond the numbers – social life, sports scene, how good the food is, general atmosphere. Also, every school listed has a very helpful “If you like this, check out these…” feature, which is how my D found her school. </p>
<p>You might take her to visit a couple of local schools, even if she’s not interested in them specifically, say, a large university and a small private. That might at least give her a feel for which she’s more attracted to, which is a place to start.</p>
<p>Ditto the recommendations for the Fiske Guide as a good starting point. Early visits to colleges can be helpful so start with the ones in your area even if there aren’t any you think will be on the list. It helps refine your criteria and questions.</p>
<p>We’re a year later than OP but my son is finally expressing an interest in visiting campuses. I like the idea of visiting local campuses (we’re in southern nh so we have plenty within easy driving distance) that aren’t necessarily on his list but are representative of type. Summer is our most convenient time to visit but is not ideal for getting the true feel of a campus. Do folks visit campuses in the summer or is it a waste of time? It seems to me that a university would be ok but LACs would look like ghost towns in the summer.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your helpful replies! I will definitely get the Fiske guide–sounds like the most popular choice. You have given me a lot to work with!
Unfortunately (or fortunately) we will not qualify for FA, but Merit Aid is high on my priority list. That said, if D fell in love with a full tuition school, we’d try to find a way to make it work. Obviously cost is a factor, but other advice I’ve read (in books) is that you should put cost lower down on the list because many schools give money (especially LACs).
Intparent, I would LOVE to know some of what was on your list of questions. It sounds like it was extremely helpful for sorting through.
Great advice to apply to different types of school and not pigeonhole D. There is a Colleges that Change Lives fair at the end of the summer in our area, so we’ll be sure to attend that.
One question (for now). What is a STEM school?
Thank you all so much!</p>
<p>If she is not a partier in terms of alcohol consumption, she may not like many of the rural schools where drinking tends to be higher.</p>
<p>For merit aid, you may want to check these lists:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-18.html#post15895768[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-18.html#post15895768</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-2.html#post15889078[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-2.html#post15889078</a></p>
<p>“STEM school” refers to a school that emphasizes science, technology, engineering, and/or math subjects.</p>
<p>My S told me that one resource he uses to investigate colleges is YouTube – if you search for and watch every YouTube video on a certain school, you can often learn much about the social environment and get a sense of what some (maybe most?) of the students are like.</p>
<p>Great idea, austinareadad! We’ll do that. Thank you ucbalumnus–we will check those out. Also will look into STEM schools since she seems to be headed in a bio-type direction. </p>
<p>I don’t think she would want to go to a “dry” school, but a school where it is okay not to drink in order to have fun. It would be too bad to have to rule out some of those more rural LACs because of that, but I understand why. </p>
<p>I will check out the merit aid lists also. I wish more schools were more clear about the aid they provide. The only schools I know of that give a very clear chart are Miami University and Indiana University. Anyone know of any others? Both of those basically say if your gpa is X and your ACT score is Y, we will give you Z. Makes it very nice and easy.</p>
<p>There is another thread discussing what kinds of schools have less alcohol-fueled culture:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1522406-lacs-northeast-known-have-least-drinking-drugs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1522406-lacs-northeast-known-have-least-drinking-drugs.html</a></p>
<p>You might read some of the middle class-merit aid threads (there is one going on now) as it may surprise you to see how important it is to be clear NOW with yourself and your child about what you can afford (run a few calculators on the college websites to find your expected contribution) and knowledge that merit aid is a tough row to hoe if you are looking for a name-brand education even for kids in the upper end of the bell curve.</p>
<p>mommy, The summer before junior year is a good time to start information gathering. When you look back a year from now you’ll be amazed at how much you learned. </p>
<p>The process of adding and deleting is like an ever narrowing series of concentric circles. As you gain information you narrow in on best fit, both financially and culturally.</p>
<p>While your daughter is concentrating on personality and ambiance, you should try to clarify your financial position. First be sure that you will not qualify for any need based aid. Need based aid formulas are complex, but are fairly standard from school to school. </p>
<p>Merit aid is equally complex and actually a lot more subjective than need based aid. Many selective colleges – both universities and LACs – do not offer merit aid, period. </p>
<p>Be very careful about resolving to “make it work” without any aid. Four years at a selective private college will be in the range of $250,000. If that’s not doable, it’s better to face it sooner than later.</p>
<p>Meanwhile your daughter should be pursuing all information sources: books, internet, friends, highschool counselors, visits. </p>
<p>Once she gets an idea of the general characteristics that she’s attracted to – e.g., size, geographic location, political and social atmosphere, environment – she can start to build a list of colleges with similar characteristics across a range of selectivity.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be so fast to eliminate rural locations. Many college students drink more than they should – and use drugs – but for sure, this is a situation that is found in urban and suburban environments as well. The choice of urban/suburban/rural really should depend on what appeals to your daughter and what she likes to do in her non-academic time.</p>
<p>One other point on merit aid: Merit aid is competitive and in short supply. Private colleges that are generous merit aid do so to attract the student body that is best for them, not based on what the interested student of family needs or wants. The determination of merit aid is not a formulaic or published process. Of course grades and scores play an important role, but so do talents (e.g. sports, performing arts) and demographics (race, ethnic group, life experience). Therefore, merit awards can appear to be arbitrary and are very difficult to predict.</p>
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<p>Has she considered Notre Dame? It would meet all of the above criteria. I’m not sure how small you mean by “small”, but with an undergrad enrollment of around 8,500 it’s not a huge school. My daughter feels like it’s the perfect size for her… big enough to feel like “college” but small enough to feel comfortable and “at home.”</p>
<p>OP, you asked about our list of questions. Here it is, but of course your milage may vary. 
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<p>Also, I just have to say, you commented that cost should not be the at the top of the list… but there is nothing more depressing than a kid who gets into a “dream” school but then can’t attend. Run the net price calculators, understand what merit is offered and who typically gets it, and make sure your D clearly understands any cost or loan parameters. Actually, best thing is to discourage the idea of a dream school. Strive for a list of match, reach, and safety colleges that are ALL acceptable alternatives for her.</p>
<p>For more info on merit aid, the best sources we have found are (1) the school financial aid websites, (2) the school common data set (Google “<college name=”"> Common Data Set"), and (3) CC forums for specific colleges.</college></p>
<p>Okay, the list of question for D2. Note that we would look at the college website ahead and fill some in, like # of students, before going to campus:
- Campus Atmosphere
o Do you like the setting?
o How far apart are things (especially if it is very hot or cold)?
o What is around campus (bookstores, restaurants, etc.)?
o Does the campus and surrounding area seem safe?
o Number of students - Dorms
o What do you like/dislike about the dorms?
o Space, carpeting, furniture, common room areas?
o Do the rooms have AC? (answers are surprising, example: Pomona does NOT :eek:, Harvey Mudd does)
o Who lives in the dorms? Are you seeing a freshman dorm? Are ages mixed in dorms? Is substance free housing available? What % of students live on campus?
o Is campus housing guaranteed all four years?
o What do your tour guides say about the food?
o Is there wireless internet access in all dorms for free? - Campus Facilities
o How do the buildings and classrooms look?
o If you attend a class, what is the atmosphere of the class?<br>
o Are students using laptops for notes in class?
o Is there wireless in the campus buildings? - Academics
o Semester vs. trimester? J-term? How many classes do most students take per term?
o What are the graduation distribution/core requirements?
o Is foreign language a requirement for graduation?
o What are the course selections like in proposed major?
o How do lab facilities look? What kind of research projects are professors doing? (for my science kid)
o What statistics can we find on PhD program acceptance? What can we find out from department and career services about where grad with my kid’s major are going after graduation?
o How many faculty are there in proposed major? How many graduate per year in that major?
o What are the study abroad options? (there is more info on website than on tours, but my D1 had a special requirement in this area, so we went to the study abroad office on all campuses we visited). - We always tried to walk through the academic buildings related to her area of interest even if the tour did not go there (science and art buildings for D2).
- Extracurricular Activities
o My D2 is a quiz bowl and fencing kid, so wanted to know if those activities are available. Obviously your questions will vary.
o If your kid wants to be in a music ensemble, ask about how selective they are and try to figure out their odds of getting to participate (eg, some colleges with conservatories make it harder for non-conservatory kids to participate in musical groups).
o What is there to do nearby on weekends?
o Do most kids stay on campus over weekends? We look a lot at posted flyers for activities and ask the tour guides what has been going on lately. - Overall
o Did you like the people you met? (focus on the students & professors the admissions office people are SUPPOSED to be nice, but you will never see them again). </p>
<p>Final tip: pick up copies of campus newspapers if you can (and/or read them online). They can be VERY illuminating and help you get past the image the admissions office hopes to project.</p>
<p>Note that a female applicant with good stats can sometimes get significant merit aid at STEM schools, especially those with lopsided gender ratios. It might be good to visit one, she may decide the atmosphere is too “nerdy” or she might embrace it. I’m thinking RPI, WPI, Case Western, RIT, Clarkson, perhaps U. Rochester etc.</p>
<p>Thanks intparent! Tons of things to consider. Great checklist!</p>