As in, why is one college more “prestigious than the other”? Like when people compare the ivy leagues here on CC, Cornell and Brown are relegated to the “lower ivy”/“less prestigious ivy” than the more selective ones like Columbia or Yale.
Is “prestige” defined largely by selectivity, the quality of the admitted students, and the quality of its professors/staff?
I would add international reputation and history to your list.
For most people in the US, prestige is simply “I’ve heard of it” (which may be through sports) and/or “I know someone I like who went there so it must be pretty good.” Ohio State is more prestigious than Haverford, UCLA is more prestigious than Amherst.
Don’t even remotely kid yourself that more than 1% of Americans could even name all 8 Ivy League schools, much less draw “upper and lower” distinctions. Don’t even remotely kid yourself that most people, when asked “what makes Harvard so prestigious” can come up with anything other than “I’ve heard a lot of really smart people go there.”
Prestige can only be answered in the context of “who are you measuring prestige among?” Blue blooded WASPs? Doctors? Engineers? Midwesterners? Who?
It’s a magical/weird combinations of factors, IMO. Brand hype over time/prevalence in pop culture makes a huge difference for some schools, plus of course the prominence of ranking over time. Simple visibility is a factor in schools being considered prestigious: lots of notable alumni Doing Things Of Note, lots of pop culture references (XYZ super student in movie/on TV show names X school as THE SCHOOL THE BEST PEOPLE GO TO; kids take this in, believe it to be The Truth)… and then there’s the self-perpetuating cycle of ranking. The top ranked schools are the most attractive to Super Students, who want the brand of the school on their resume for life (bragging rights! alumni networks!), and since those schools attract super students to apply in droves (and our perfectionist/helicopter parent culture is producing more and more super students), and the schools remain as selective as always with more and more applicants… they stay on top because they can be super selective, and hand pick the very best students, which contributes to their high profile over time.
So, Harvard and Yale (and Princeton) kids/alumni/etc. have talked more, over time, about how Awesome their schools are (and they generally have more competitive atmospheres than, say, Brown) and they’ve managed quite successfully to insert themselves into pop culture/the zeitgeist over time. Hence, they seem more prestigious over all. And of course, they’re ALL good schools, though they’re not all good at all things–I personally think students should really focus on individual program/major they’re looking at, not just the overall school brand.
There are plenty of non-Ivy schools with just as high a quality of education–if not more so–but if they’re not as selective/hyped/branded/ranked, they’re not as prestigious. Marketing/branding/good spin + quality of product/self-selecting consumer base (ie: people who want/need your product and expect your product to be quality will find quality) = prestige. (I work in marketing XD)
There is also social prestige and academic prestige, which are two different constructs as well. Some schools have both; some have more of one than the other.
Jarjarbinks…why do you keep asking these questions about prestige schools? This is not the first thread you have started with the same theme.
Prestige is in the eyes of the beholder…and usually relates to the USNews rankings.
And prestige varies sometimes from region to region.
Are you still trying to convince your parents that NYU Stern (where you got accepted ED) is worth paying mega bucks out of pocket to attend?
I used to operate under the misconception that people outside of College Confidential (i.e. “the real world”) are as acutely conscious of prestige and college rankings as those who regularly use CC.
Someone mentioned that very few people could tell you all the schools in the ivy league - and I think that is 100% correct. Other than a select handful (I’m thinking maybe 3 or 4 kids) in my high school, most kids didn’t really understand what the ivy league was. They thought that the “Ivy League” was a distinction for schools that weren’t just good, but really, really good. I’ve heard people ask “MIT is an ivy league, right?” or “What do you mean Stanford isn’t an Ivy?” What’s particularly interesting is that they’d believe schools like MIT and Stanford were in the Ivy League, but then they wouldn’t think of Cornell or Columbia.
Everyone (or mostly everyone) where I grew up (middle class/working class suburb) knew that Harvard was a good school. When asked about schools they thought were impressive, students usually listed Harvard, followed by Boston University, Boston College, and UMass Amherst - all in one list. This was usually students in the top 20% of the class. When you talked to students who were perhaps in the bottom half of the class, anything that wasn’t a community college was considered pretty prestigious - and even then, community colleges were still seen as good schools. Kids were proud of relatives and friends who were enrolled in a community college because they were making a better life for themselves (which they are) - and then other kids would scoff at community colleges as a viable option for higher education.
I remember the day after Northeastern University released decisions and only a few kids were admitted (about 50 were rejected - something like 7 or 8 were accepted). I was accepted and I was approached by Juniors and Sophomores who congratulated me, explaining to me that Northeastern was their “ultimate dream school.” I had kids tell me that I “must’ve killed it on the SAT” or the like. My classmates tried to insinuate that if I could manage an acceptance to Northeastern, then there would be no question that I’d get into Harvard. (Because in their mind, Northeastern and Harvard are peers - since both are selective schools in Boston/Cambridge - even though Harvard is exceptionally more selective - but that didn’t matter to them.)
When I didn’t get into Harvard, people were genuinely surprised. They thought that smart kids go to Harvard, plain and simple. So if a kid is smart, makes A’s most of the time, does well on the SAT, then that’s that - you’re Harvard bound. What was particularly bizarre was that I had teachers who told me that they were looking at gifts to get me for when I was accepted… To be frank, I had a snowball’s chance in Hell of getting into Harvard - I knew that from the jump; I only applied because “~you never know~” or whatever and I had an interesting story to tell blahblahblah but my teachers didn’t think that way. They thought that I’d be going to Harvard.
When I chose a “less prestigious” school than Northeastern to attend, people were downright shocked. I’d tell someone “I’m going to ______” and they’d respond “But you were accepted to Northeastern!” I didn’t try to argue with them because I knew they meant well. But it was all just so funny.
Real world prestige and College Confidential prestige are two very different things.
@thumper1 I withdrew my ED commitment a few days ago, so no.
I’m asking about prestige schools since I’m curious about what specific qualities mark one school as “more prestigious/less prestigious” than the others.
preamble1776: You are so right! I went to HS in GA, so there it was always UGA/Emory/GA Tech breathed in the same sentence as The Best, with the edge actually going to UGA with most people–Georgians really, really, really love UGA and consider it prestigious, but if you go out of region that’s not the case. I went to Boston University, and in the South no one has heard of it–they mistake my alma matter for BC a lot, to which I reply with stony stares and how we’re way better at hockey, thank you very much 
However, in the Northeast and even out here in California, people know BU by name (especially in the entertainment industry), and my degree has real prestige attached.
OP: checked your other threads and for the love of all things holy: DO NOT GO 200K+ INTO DEBT FOR NYU. Just no. No. No degree is worth that, even from Stern. With all due respect to NYU lovers and grads, NYU is one of the biggest players in the prestige hype game. When you compare it against other schools and consider their truculent lacking of willingness to provide merit aid (because eff you if you’re smart but not rich!), NYU doesn’t offer much more than similar schools who are more generous/less expensive, in the long run. Many, many kids dream of NYU–I used to, too! (thanks Felicity + my high school crush going there)–and it’s very much due to hype/the idea that that school on your roster will Guarantee You For Life ™, plus the allure of NYC. It doesn’t. I know unemployed NYU grads, as well as underemployed NYU grads. This economy sucks and the sticker tag from the perfect uni doesn’t not guarantee success. Consider backups!
Jar jar -among whom, and in what part of the country? Prestige is regional. Preamble’s anecdote is a good example - the schools they “chose as prestigious” are a function of the fact that they are sitting in Boston. The list is different in different parts of the country.
Age of the school also play a role. All of the Ivies are old colleges, and all except Cornell are very old.
The University’s research efforts and results have an impact.
The accomplishments of the school’s Alumni contribute to prestige.
The size of the school’s endowment plays a role. The eight Ivies have over $100 billion in combined endowment funds.
Pizza girl is right that about brand recognition. Average Americans do view the “Ivy League” as the top colleges in the country; however, if you ask them to name one of the five Ivy League colleges that are not Harvard, Yale, or Princeton, very few people can do it. These five schools individual brands are unrecognizable to most people.
While it may be true that Cornell is a little bit easier to get into, on average, compared to the other Ivies, this “less prestigious” is still one of the best colleges in the country. Saying a student attends an Ivy League school, but it is “less prestigious” because it is Cornell, is like saying that you know someone who plays in the NFL, but then adding that he plays for “a less prestigious team.” It is kind of silly.
people go to harvard because they need validation, why does harvard give that validation? well, because of it’s prestige. were does the prestige come from? all the people who need validation applying for the few slots available. it is a silly circle of nonsense. so many people who live by the ivy league or I am a failure motto, would be so much better served if they went threw high school without all the unnecessary stress and attended one of the 3000 plus other schools that they would get the same education and probably be a lot happier at. and the networking thing is also not based in reality. all schools offer a “network” .
I learned two things about “prestige” in my law firm associate days. The first is that you can’t eat it. The second is that Sallie Mae won’t take it as repayment. Through most of my first ten years out of college, ramen was worth more than prestige because it kept my belly full and minimized my debt.
Stop thinking about “prestige” and try to think deeply about what you think you would like to be doing in ten years. You are likely to find that getting there is much less about where you go to college and much more about how you use the opportunities you get once you are there. Good luck with your search.
My daughter attends Penn State as an out of state student. Most kids here do not venture that far. It’s a great school but its not exactly in the elite category. I can’t tell you how many “oh wow’s” or " that’s impressive" I get when asked where she is going. Not sure if they are confusing it with U Penn or that they know about the football team, so its impressive just because they just heard of the school.
“So if a kid is smart, makes A’s most of the time, does well on the SAT, then that’s that - you’re Harvard bound.”
I’d say most adults still think like this, and I actually like that. I love how confident all the adults around me are that I’m going to go to some place AMAZING just because I worked hard for the SAT and got good grades. Someone even told me I was “set” for Yale because I’d written an inspiring supplemental essay. I know it takes a lot more than a supp to get in. I remember when my mom found out that students from my local college (international student here) occasionally (rarely, actually) transferred to universities in the US after their first years. She said, “Well, why don’t you go there for a year and then transfer? To say, MIT?”. Because since I had good grades, good SATs and wanted to study engineering, I could wind up at MIT. MIT was where smart engineers went. When I tried to explain to them why that wasn’t possible (I’m not exactly MIT material), my parents would just say “But you’re so smart!”. I sort of wish the world did work like that.
I agree that there is also regional prestige and that sometimes that can be more important in the early years post BA/BS.
Much 2 learn said:
“Age of the school also play a role. All of the Ivies are old colleges, and all except Cornell are very old.
The University’s research efforts and results have an impact.
The accomplishments of the school’s Alumni contribute to prestige.
The size of the school’s endowment plays a role. The eight Ivies have over $100 billion in combined endowment funds”
Again, the average person has not a single clue when these colleges were founded, what they research, who the alumni are, or the size of the school’s endowment. It is regional. The average person bases their impression of a school on the people they know who they’ve thought were reasonably smart / bright / good who went there, and / or prowess in sports if they aren’t in the immediate area.
I would also say that “prestige” does not equal “I’d give my left arm to go there / have my kid go there.” The average person may indeed say “Harvard” when asked “what is the best / most prestigious school in the country,” but that doesn’t mean that therefore sending their kid to Harvard or employing Harvard grads is a high priority. For the world outside CC, most of this is a “well, that’s nice.”
Jarjar, why do you care what random people think about random schools?
Smart idea to withdraw your ED commitment, though. NYU is not the place to go to get off to a good start financially unless you already have a lot of money.
I àgree. The land grant colleges are old which is why they are so well known. Being broadly known is also a form of prestige.
“the average person has not a single clue when these colleges were founded, what they research, who the alumni are, or the size of the school’s endowment. It is regional. The average person bases their impression of a school on the people they know who they’ve thought were reasonably smart / bright / good who went there, and / or prowess in sports if they aren’t in the immediate area.”
I agree. The average person has no idea about the best schools nationally. If they live in Michigan, where I grew up, then UMich is the best college and Michigan State is next. End of story. They don’t think beyond that. If they do, it would be other Big 10 schools. The know colleges from other parts of the country based on sports.
When dealing with recruiters and companies then school choice can matter more, but still less than your choice of a major. Most students would do better to spend less time investigating colleges and more time investigating majors to find one they really enjoy and makes them employable.