How is apply to grad school different than applying to undergrad? +general grad school questions

Graduate School
1

Hi! I’m starting the process of looking into what grad schools to apply to, and I’m curious how this will be different from applying to undergrad.

If it helps, I’m a UPenn student thinking about an MPH or PhD in epidemiology

Specifically:
-is financial aid different for grad school?
-is applying to grad school more or less competitive?
-how many grad schools to people typically apply to?
-any other advice?

Questions generally about grad school:
-Do you only take classes in your masters/phd or do schools have graduation requirements? can you take classes outside of your degree if you want?
-do most grad students have day jobs? The grad classes I’ve taken as an undergrad were all evening classings

2

Some grad programs are targeted to part time students who attend at night or on weekends. Some programs only accept full time students and schedule most classes during the day. Ideally you would get a graduate research or teaching assistantship, which might include a tuition waiver. Often you can take some credits in other departments.

3

Some (actually many) schools guarantee a certain number of years of funding for PhD students. For masters students, they are typically considered for funding only after the PhD students receive theirs.

Competitiveness absolutely depends on the specific program. Professional programs (e.g., MD/DO, DDS/DMD, PharmD, JD) are extremely competitive. Other grad programs vary significantly by school and by program, and no generalization can be made.

The number of grad schools people apply to depend on a lot of factors, such as their program of interest and what they are capable of affording. Applying to grad schools tends to be more expensive, however, people still typically apply to more grad schools than the number of undergrad schools they applied to. Those applying to medical school typically apply to 15 to 20 schools, sometimes up to 25. Those applying to dental school typically apply to roughly 10 schools. For others, I would imagine 10 schools sounds pretty reasonable.

Many grad programs do have graduation requirements outside of your major requirements, but they would typically be very few credits and make up only a very small portion of your degree requirements. The policy varies by school. In addition, for grad programs, you often will need an advisor to approve your coursework every semester and you get very little freedom in your choice of coursework, including those outside of your major requirements. You may take course outside of your degree if you want, but that will be in addition to what your advisor wants you to take for a particular term, thus you should only do so if you believe you can handle the coursework.

It’s not the norm for grad level courses to be in the evening, however some grad programs may be tailored to help those who need to work during the day. Not all grad students have day jobs, nor are they required to. However, if a grad student receives funding, they may receive it from working for the university as a TA or RA.

4

Hey there OP, my PhD is in public health :slight_smile:

  1. Yes, financial aid is different in graduate school. They don’t consider your parents’ income, but your financial need isn’t really as much a concern. For an MPH program, you’ll most likely be expected to finance it mostly with loans. There are some limited scholarships for MPH programs and some schools will give you some internal money if you are an exceptional candidate (I got a 1/2 tuition scholarship to Emory’s MPH program, for example).

  2. Depends on the program. MPH programs are less competitive; the acceptance rates for MPH programs range from 26% to 93% ([2012 data](http://depts.washington.edu/sphnet/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/FINAL_ASPH-Annual-Data-Report-2011.pdf)*), depending on the school. And they don’t necessarily split the way you’d expect - for example, Florida International University’s MPH programs have a 33% acceptance rate; Columbia’s have a 60% acceptance rate. Most of the top programs are somewhere in the 40-60% acceptance rate range. That has nothing to do with the quality of the program; MPH programs are rather large, and since most students pay with loans there’s really not a financing limit. (Honestly, increasing the number of MPH students can increase revenues for the school.) And MPH applicants tend to be a self-selecting bunch anyway.

PhD programs, on the other hand, are pretty selective - most have acceptance rates in the 5-20% category. But remember that slightly higher acceptance rate is because they tend to be a little more self-selecting than undergrad programs as well. And it’s a holistic process.

  1. Depends on you and your needs. I knew I was pretty competitive for MPH programs, and that I wanted to go to a top 10-15 program, and there were only certain areas of the country I was willing to live in. I originally intended to get an MPH first and then a PhD in social psychology, but there was just one PhD program that would let me study them at the same time and that didn’t require a prior MA. So I applied to 4 MPH programs (Columbia, Emory, Yale, Johns Hopkins) and one PhD program (Columbia, which is where I went.)

I would say around 4-8 MPH programs or 7-12 PhD programs is pretty common, depending on your interests and how competitive you are. But there’s no minimum. If there’s only one PhD program you’d be happy at and if you couldn’t get in there you wouldn’t want to go to graduate school, just apply to one. The goal isn’t just to get in; it’s to go somewhere that will help you with your career goals.

*That data only includes programs that were part of the ASPPH as of 2011-2012; so it doesn’t include programs like the MPH program at UPenn (ASPPH didn’t start including programs outside of schools of public health until later) or Brown (Brown’s didn’t exist at the time).

  1. Do you have any research experience? Particularly if you are interested in a PhD in epidemiology, you will need research experience. If you haven’t already look for an opportunity to be an RA with a professor, and look for summer programs in public health too! If you are a member of a group underrepresented in public health (broadly defined!) check out Columbia’s Summer Public Health Scholars Program. I used to teach in that program; it’s a pretty awesome summer experience for people interested in the field.

Most PhDs in epidemiology do require a master’s degree, too. If you are interested in a PhD, I would look for MA or MPH (or MSPH) programs that are designed to prepare you for the PhD and imply or outright state that students sometimes or often continue into the PhD at that department. For example, Emory [offers a Master’s of Science in Public Health (MSPH) in epidemiology](Rollins School of Public Health | MSPH Epidemiology), which focuses on the science and methods of epi and is excellent prep for a doctoral program in the field.

Questions about grad school:

-For an MPH program, there are generally 2-3 components: 1) coursework, 2) your practicum, which nearly every MPH program requires, and 3) a thesis or capstone project you do in your second year. You can theoretically take classes outside of the degree if you are willing to pay for them, but you probably won’t have time. Graduate school is about focus and a narrow specialty, not trying things that are unrelated to your degree.

For a PhD program, the program is usually divided into three phases: 1) the coursework phase, during which you take classes in your subject area; 2) the examination phase, during which you pass a series of comprehensive examinations testing your absorption of knowledge in the field and your readiness to do independent research; and 3) the dissertation phase, during which you plan, execute, and write up your dissertation research. Those are the formal requirements of a PhD program. But since the PhD is professional preparation for a career as a researcher and scholar, there are informal requirements or expectations as well. For example, you will serve as an RA throughout the PhD. Often, your funding is tied to performing as a research assistant, but even if it’s not you will want to anyway so you can publish the papers and make the presentations that are necessary to compete for jobs. You may serve as a teaching assistant in some courses, too.

-Depends on the program. Most traditional MPH programs offer the majority of their classes during the day, and students generally attend full-time. There are many MPH students that work part-time around their class schedule. There are also typically sections of most required classes offered in the evenings, and some MPH students attend traditional MPH programs part-time over the course of several years. There are some executive MPH programs that are offered in the evenings and on the weekends to accommodate people in full-time jobs, but they are designed for people who have experience in the field already.

For a PhD, you will almost always be expected to attend as a full-time day student, and it would be exceedingly difficult (and sometimes prohibited) for you to work a full-time day job. However, once you finish your coursework and exams - after around year 3 or 4 - you may be able to work full-time, depending on the nature of your dissertation project, your advisor’s research expectations, and your personal tolerance for chaos in your life. I do know many PhD students who worked full-time while writing their dissertations (it took them longer to finish). I personally worked part-time through the vast majority of my PhD, but while I was writing I only worked 10 hours a week because I wanted to finish fast. However, since I had an MA and an MPhil, they were a well-paid 10 hours!