<p>Was in Saratoga Springs a few weeks ago. Gorgeous, gorgeous town, beautiful area, so much to do.</p>
<p>Ah--ok, thanks everyone.<br>
This is where the merit and need difference is, for me anyway:</p>
<p>Being middle class, it seems to me that my daughter will qualify for needbased aid at schools with needbased aid. If these schools meet full need, or have really generous aid, then great, that will help. The well-endowed often highly ranked schools have this type of aid. So, reach relatively high to give a chance for this.</p>
<p>For merit aid, aim for schools where stats are high. So aim lower.</p>
<p>It's schools in the middle where things are more murky, chance of aid is less.</p>
<p>Is this about right???</p>
<p>Since you will qualify for both financial and merit aid, look for those schools where they have such funds. USN&WR gives the average % of need met and % of merit money and % of grants. Also look for schools where your D's type is sought, where she is not just one more applicant.</p>
<p>We were pleasantly surprised this go around. Given prior experiences and this S's stats, I did not expect much in merit money. I figured $5K max which was the case with the others. In fact, it was more like $2000K in awards for them. However, I think his high SAT scores, consistent good but not outstanding grades, high level course load, being male and going outside of geographics made a big difference for him. He also only applied to schools were there was a good chance for merit money, and I did look at the endowment numbers as well.</p>
<p>OP, now you are making me feeling bad. </p>
<p>It took me almost a year on CC everyday to understand the process and you got it just like that. </p>
<p>The last thing you want is to have your D gets into one of her "dream" school and then you tell her that you can't afford it. It almost happened to us this year.</p>
<p>If you are good with financial stuff, you should do a quick EFC estimation. Whatever number you got, add $5000. That will be about where you will be expected to pay for schools such as Duke, Cornell, WashUSL, and Vandy. Also, most of these schools use upto $5K loan as part of their FA. On top of that, it will be very competitive to get any Merit aid from this range of schools. </p>
<p>It is too early to make up a list for my own son. However, if he has as decent stat as his sister, I don't think we will encourage him to apply any schools that do not offer help for 120-180K income families. We may also focus on those ranked 35 - 80for extensive merit aids. </p>
<p>Getting into a dreams school should not be the goal. getting one that you could afford is.</p>
<p>It's often difficult to know what you will get from where without applying. We had some surprises, I know. And so did a number of folks we know. It does you little good if a school meets 100% of need, has generous merit awards, but defines your need less than you would, gives you more loans than grants, and basically does not give your student much. It happens. Then there are the surprise packages. We ended up getting a "research grant" from a school that absolutely gives no merit awards. On the other hand, S did not get anything from a scholarship process where his teachers and the stats indicated that it was a very good possibility. Things do happen unexpectedly in this process.</p>
<p>CPT, did you say your S got $2,000K for 4 years? </p>
<p>Surprise is nice. DD got from Stanford surprised us. Counting on that, however, could not be very wise.</p>
<p>We did not qualify for financial aid. My oldest son got a full tuition scholarship for his safety school. That was the only grant he was offered out of a dozen or so schools. The second one was offered up to $5000 a year, but most of his offers were in the $2000 a year range. Not much for schools that cost $40K+. We were hopeful for him because he went for a number of arts scholarships. This time around, we were not at all hopeful and did not expect much, though we did focus on schools that had relatively good endowments and offered a goodly amount in merit money. We also went "against the grain" in that we applied to schools where he would stand out. It seemed to have worked. He received many nice merit packages including a research grant (one time) from a school that supposedly gives zero in merit money. However, some schools where we thought we would get good awards did not pan out. He ended up at his favorite school and was able to negotiate his merit award to $10K a year. He intends to take care of about $7k a year of his costs with work, savings and loans. We will pay $10K out savings and the rest with loans and out of pocket.</p>
<p>Isn't it also necessary to be careful to distinguish need-based loans from need-based grants? Just looking at "average amt. of aid package" is not enough. For instance, it's a stretch for us to meet our EFC, so getting loans from the school itself would not be doing us any favors, whereas a nice grant and student employment would make us very happy.</p>
<p>ilsa belter, I understand what you're saying. I think most of the very top schools limit the loans included in that % to federally-guaranteed student loans. It is something work checking on, though. I know of one exception at the top school level. I heard that Tufts often gives school loans to meet need. Out of curiousity, I called, spoke to a fa counselor and found out that, yes, if there is <strong>a lot</strong> of need, they will give students a school loan for part of it. (I threw out numbers of someone with $35-40K a year in need and he came up with school loans in the $10-15K a year neighborhood.) While other schools at that level downright give out their $, Tufts expects the students to pay it back. It is also not needblind. I don't know how many other schools do that. I don't even know how often Tufts does that. (It may be that they do that rarely because most prospective freshman with that kind of need either don't make the cut because of the needaware issue or are so strong that the school feels it is worth funding them.) I just know that he told me that they do that.</p>
<p>That is a good point, about the makeup of the pkgs, ilsa belter. </p>
<p>Dad II, my first thread about this was over a year ago and I lurk and read a lot and am improving but am still confused. So don't feel bad. You're way ahead of me.</p>
<p>Cpt's post 45 makes it seem pretty random, as far as aid goes, and it seems that so many people are surprised by the aid pkgs, sometimes pleasantly. Then, in post 47, you can see how there is somewhat of a plan-- the going against the grain and standing out. That is like 2collegewego's post about Skidmore, where there was a desire for certain talents. So that is something to try to figure out. (And what is the best way to go about doing this??)</p>
<p>So this is where I am at:</p>
<p>Rice is a school with a large endowment, out of our geographic area. That is one of my daughter's reaches, so that seems worth a shot. Carleton similarly.</p>
<p>The out of state publics, we knew would be difficult, for both admission and aid. We have relatives nearby so my d has been to those schools, and to schools near where we live (not really considering).
We need to get to see more of the smaller schools somehow. </p>
<p>I hope the schools across the country are more forgiving if we don't visit. Are they?</p>
<p>The threads on the Parents' Forum now about students at reach schools are interesting. So I'm still ... wishing for a crystal ball I guess. </p>
<p>(written before 2college's post 49)</p>
<p>Current list:</p>
<p>Rice
William and Mary (daughter's favorite, so we'll see how the aid comes out)
Michigan ?
Williams
Dartmouth
in-state public
Holy Cross
Villanova
Conn College
U Richmond
Colgate
Carleton
Kenyon</p>
<p>Still could not convince you to add PHYS in there?</p>
<p>In any case, I think getting into a reach school is the most difficult part. Unless something really special hapens, everyoen shoud be o.k. </p>
<p>During the admistted weekend, we talked with several different people about the fear DD had. They all said that there are layers of help available and the resources and $$ are the least worry from school point of view. Not many school could say that.</p>
<p>That's why looking at the endowment and the USN&WR breakdowns are helpful. If a school's FA packages tend to be loan heavy, and if your D is an average admissions candidate, that is likely what she will get. The merit awards are good in that they are more grant monies. Merit within need is a way to qualify for scholarship funds that are earmarked for financial aid, but given to the top candidates. I would probably replace Connecticut College with Fordham U.</p>
<p>2collegewego: I did not understand that the loans colleges offer are the same unsubsidized Stafford loans we will already use to help cover our EFC! Why do they think they are doing anyone a favor by offering that?</p>
<p>They are doing a favor in that it is difficult for kids to get loans. Otherwise the parents have to get the loan to cover the EFC.</p>
<p>Got it, cpt. Thanks.</p>
<p>Not that I think it is such a great deal. I had an exchange with a fin ed admin from a college on the CC financial site regarding PLUS loans being considered financial aid from a college. She included it as such, and I begged to differ. Mainly because that is not the standard as I have seen it in terms of financial aid.</p>
<p>However, the fact of the matter is that low income families are going to have a difficult time taking loans and are going to have a more difficult time than most in helping their kids repay loans. So for a family to take out a lot of loans for an expensive college is not a good idea, unless there is some idea of how it is going to be repaid. If it's for a program or school or career that will likely lead to high and reliable pay once out of school, it's one thing. Otherwise, it would be wise to look at less expensive options and investigate the worth carefully.</p>
<p>dad ii ... if you look at the schools on the list ... phys only compares to possibly michigan as far as type of school ... and doesn't seem to be the type of school that the op is looking for.</p>
<p>and, i agree that getting a great "FA award" that is primarily loans isn't really that great ...</p>
<p>Madeline's Mom,</p>
<p>If your daughter has a 700/700 breakdown on the SAT, Villanova has a strong tuition scholarship program. Check out its financial aid/scholarship page. I know this, because we met a gentleman at a college fair who told us about it.</p>
<p>As for William & Mary, I wish you much luck. The school, it seems, gives little money. I'm in-state, and my son will apply because he is our nominee for the Murray scholarship. Two of our grads last year got in -- one went but is transferring because he wants a strong music program and the other went elsewhere because the aid package was weak.</p>
<p>The U. of Richmond is much better for money -- I had a student just turn down a $160,000 scholarship there (over four years).</p>
<p>If aid is needed, I would substitute Washington & Lee for William & Mary. W&L is private and more expensive, but it's better both for need-based and merit aid. If someone is paying out of pocket, I would stick to William & Mary because overall costs are lower (data from US News-- when there are 2 numbers, 1st is for freshmen and 2nd is for all undergrads). Another factor: Despite slightly higher SAT scores at W&L, applicant might have a better chance there because she is out-of-state. Presumably, successful out-of-state applicants at W&M have higher ranges than the overall student body.</p>
<p>College of William & Mary, VA: USNews Ranking Natl Univ #33
Tuition and fees: $26,725 out-of-stateRoom/board:$7,385
Students whose need was fully met 44% 46%
% need met (of those awarded need-based aid) 84% 84%
Avg. merit award (% awarded aid) $7,222 (2%) $5,222 (5%)
Out of state: 33%
Overall acceptance: 32%
Top 10 percent of high school class:80% Top 25 percent of high school class: 96%
Critical Reading:620 – 730 Math: 620 – 710 Combined: 1240 – 1440 </p>
<p>Washington & Lee, VA: USNews Ranking LAC #15
Tuition and fees:$35,445 Room/board:$8,725
Students whose need was fully met (excluding PLUS or other private loans) 93% 86%
% need met (of those awarded need-based aid) 99% 99%
Avg. merit award (% awarded aid) $18,097 (7%) $16,109 (11%)
Out of state: 85%
Overall acceptance: 27%
Top 10 percent of high school class:81% Top 25 percent of high school class: 98%
Critical Reading:650 – 740 Math: 650 – 730 Combined: 1300 – 1470</p>