"am just curious what people think about “elite” colleges receiving 50,000 applications and pocketing 50,000*75!!!
How “honorable” is that?"
Did the elite college point a gun at anyone and force them to apply? No. That’s like asking whether it’s “honorable” that Neiman-Marcus charges $x for something it sells a lot of. People choose to apply to these places freely, no o e is forced. Nothing dishonorable at all.
“PG’s answer skews towards the super-hot girl who knows everyone wants her (i.e. the most elite schools).”
Because californiaaa has made it clear in previous posts that she is seeking only the most elite schools (plus then the UC system), that’s why.
I still maintain that the subtext is “what I can do for you,” not “what you can do for me.” If George Clooney decides tomorrow that he will consider me for a date, my “speech” is better focused on why we will be a compatible pair because I understand XYZ about him and I value those same things. Not on me regurgitating how handsome I think he is, which is all about what he can do for me.
This isn’t terribly different from a job interview scenario. They don’t care how badly you want the job. They care how well you can add to their company.
And that is exactly why you and I disagree on this at the margin. Companies are interested in only one thing, getting bigger. Always in terms of more sales and profits, and usually in terms of overall size. So you are right that for a company the very best answer when a company asks “where do see yourself in 5 years” is “Wherever the company feels I provide the most value”.
That kind of answer makes no sense for a college. Colleges don’t control the equivalent of your position within the company, and cannot reassign you at a whim to another major. The company has no mission along the lines of “We shape leaders of the future”, the power dynamic is almost entirely on the company’s side. Colleges have shaping young lives at their heart; it is a nearly equally shared dynamic. Therefore it is highly relevant to be able to say to that college “By attending your school I feel I will reach my highest potential as compared to other schools, because of these features”. I still agree with you that Harvard, Yale, et. al. take it for granted that for the correct applicants they will be the best molder because they offer everything and, well they are who they are, so they don’t need to hear it. I don’t think it is true of most schools, I think they like to understand why you are more interested in their school than some of their peers. After all, we always talk about demonstrated interest. Visiting campus and all is great, but what better demonstrates interest than being able to convince them of a great fit, with fit being an absolutely two way street.
Ignoring telling most colleges how particular facets of their philosophy of teaching and/or various programs and/or the general environment such as size, structure, etc. is missing an opportunity to convey why that school is at the top of your list. I know absolutely Tulane loves to hear that to help sort out some kinds of students from others, and I feel very sure that there are hundreds that feel the same way. Of course they also want to know what you bring to the table in some detail, although I could argue they can see a lot from your resume, just as you argue they don’t need to hear certain things because they are out there for everyone to know. What isn’t known to them, from both directions, is why it makes a particular difference in that individual’s case. That is what the essay can convey from both directions. After all, the best deals (and happiest students) is when both parties benefit.
Finally, I would also point out how opposite the money flow is between a company and a college. The primary of this discussion pays the college to mold them; the company pays them to help mold the company. The fact that students help mold the college along the way is just part of their learning process, just like whatever leadership and skills many employees learn during their job benefits them as well as the company. It just highlights the significant differences of the two entities relative to the primary player, and the weakness of the analogy.
I think schools in discussion here are elite colleges. They know how they have and could shaped many young lives. They are looking at building a vibrant community which could benefit everyone in it. By telling them that their great dance or art program is a great interest to you is not as important as letting them know how you are going to contribute to those programs. Yes, you could be writing the same thing, but how it is presented could make all the difference in the world.
I am with Pizzagirl that applying to colleges is no different than applying for jobs. It is beneficial for adcoms to assemble a group of students who are engaged, intellectually curious, good citizens, and would overall make their school a vibrant community. Colleges are for profit as much companies, except their money comes from donations (and tuitions). Just look at how much college presidents get paid - highest paid presidents are usually the best fund raisers.
My free advice. If you or your kiddo is a rising HS senior who will be applying to college in the fall…start writing the essays NOW. Our kids had a word document…and they wrote ideas down when they got them. Started writing actual essays very early on. This gave them time to tweak them before submission.
Both of our kids had most of their applications DONE by October 15…and neither applied ED. Each had two early action applications…rest were regular decision.
They were not thrilled about spending their summer and September getting these done (and they applied before the common ap was used), but both were thrilled once they were completed…and they could enjoy their senior year without having them hanging over their heads.
Both added one additional school in November. But with the others done, that was not a headache at all.
Well, there seems to have been some effort to make it that, but the number of applications under discussion makes it unlikely they are all what one considers “elite”, although I grant that is not an exact term.
Still cannot disagree more that colleges are just like companies. All organizations have some overlapping characteristics, but colleges are really quite different in purpose and execution. I think I outlined some of them already and there are many more. How many companies actually refuse, in many cases, to allow 50-95% of potential customers to buy their product, but instead force them to go to the competition? The job applicant is not a customer, the college applicant is indeed a type of customer. I don’t know how it can get much more different than that. The very reason Tulane and many, many similar schools want to hear how they fit the student is that they want happy students, because then retention is higher, etc. Failing to present such information to the school is not disqualifying, but it is a missed opportunity when it is fairly unique (maybe personal is a better word) and genuine.
Anyway, I have made my point. Won’t do any good to debate it further, I can only strongly recommend that most students applying to most schools save some space for balancing both approaches.
Tulane is a fine school, but Californiaa has made it very clear in the totality of her postings that she considers schools beyond the top 20 research universities off the radar screen as they are “no names” - the UCs are there because she is a California resident. Top LACs have been suggested to her and she has dismissed them. Therefore, with all due respect to Tulane, she’s not having her kid apply at that “level.” This is someone who wants to go after the biggest prizes. She is, of course, welcome to pursue such a strategy even if others think it is Ill-advised. She’s also welcome to believe that the “insert professor X” strategy is a good one.
I cringe at the “I can only meet my full potential / goals at …” your school. It can come off as the kind of obnoxious person we see every March on CC who is now convinced the world is lost because Harvard or MIT said no. It’s kind of the exact opposite of a go-getter. I would want to portray myself as a really dynamic person who understands your school culture / values / mores and would add greatly to it, not a person who is just blinded by passionate love. Admissions isn’t a reward for “who loves this college the most.” I daresay all 30,000 applicants to Harvard “love” it.
Anecdotally, I remember having to help my S edit down the “I love NU so much” part of his “why NU” essay. It read very much like “you offer all these great things and I love the atmosphere so much, which I’m familiar with, having spent summers there as part of a program.” Just – no. He could use his anecdotes to provide a little bit of color, but he needed to take his anecdotes about what he liked so much and link them to aspects of his personality / approach that would mean that his presence there would be a positive addition to the community as a whole. It couldn’t be about naked self interest.
I feel compelled to point out this is not at all what I am saying, just to be clear. I agree that as stated it would be ridiculous in all but the most exceptional cases. However, leave out the words “only meet” and replace them with “significantly progress towards”, then proceed to establish why School X is one of the schools (presumably of a handful) that best fits the applicant. Also, naked self-interest is another extreme statement that would virtually never apply. Just by common sense, if the school has something that fits you and has the potential to fulfill you, you are very likely to sustain and increase whatever that/those thing(s) is/are as well. The school has one of the most famous student newspapers or literary reviews, etc. in the country. This attracts you to the school and you can add to it when you get there. See, a two-way street. Why in the world would that be inappropriate for an application essay on “Why X University”?
The very nature of college is that by participating and learning, you are sustaining/adding to it. All these things are interactive by their very nature. How many students come to a college and actually start something totally new? Of course it happens that you get a few new clubs or organizations of some kind, and that is great but it is the very distinct minority, and even fewer wrote about it in their applications. Most join what is already there. Kind of defies the entire premise of it all being about what the student can do for the university.
Personally, I do think that elite college admissions is a lot like the interview process at many professional firms. A good number of those do care if you know “why firm A” rather than firm B besides what you bring to the table. They may not know (or even care) if it is genuine, but they want to see that you have put in the research because a lot of these roles, definitely the client-facing ones, are about selling and showing that your strengths fit client needs, and knowing what their needs are requires researching and understanding a client.
But I can see how Harvard and a handful of others may not care.
Companies compete for top applicants and they treat those applicants better than their customers sometimes. On the other hand, not all college applicants are desirable customers to some colleges. Elite colleges are in discussion because that’s what OP is focusing on.
Of course they compete for the best talent, but that doesn’t make the situations the same at all. A company can raise the salary and benefits offer. A school is very limited in this regard. How many students sign non-competes? Just the athletes, and that is only applicable to the sport, where they are indeed employees despite the schools’ insistence that they are not. As I said, citing some overlapping characteristics of all organizations does not make them or this situation the same thing.
I understand spelling out the difference between elites and other schools, but some of the statements have sounded much broader than just the elites. In any case, it is important to be crystal clear that a few schools do operate differently for admissions in several aspects precisely because they are elite/have extraordinarily high yields.
Finally, in the end, what is your point? Do you really think a student that does a good job expressing why Harvard is a better fit than Yale or some others, assuming it is a genuine reason, is doomed for rejection? Much less schools that are less selective? I think that is nonsense, and in fact potentially passes up a good opportunity to show clarity of thought and solid reasoning.
A good applicant who is applying to both HY would would make both schools feel like they are perfect fit for him/her. I think it is nonsense an applicant would write an essay to say one school is a better fit than another. No different than when I am applying for jobs, until a decision is made, I would never say one company is a better fit than another.
I have no idea why a student writing an essay on why Harvard would mention Yale, State U or the local community college at all. I would think it exceedingly arrogant to say to Harvard “you meet my needs better than Yale,” as if said kid has two acceptances in the bag.
Well, that’s a moot point. Harvard does not ask “Why Harvard?” I guess they just assume that everyone would want to go there. 
@fallenchemist, many schools certainly compete for students with scholarships (some after acceptances are out as well).
At the tippy-tops, not so much (though some compete with fin aid offers). They compete in other ways as well, though. Schools like Harvard fly in the kids they really want to meet with various people to try to woo them (just like companies do).
Yes, I said it was more limited, not non-existant. But at the same time, it is very rare that a college will get in a bidding war for a student. Generally they entice a student based on stats, sometimes a certain talent including but not limited to sports, but once the offer is made most schools won’t try to outbid another school. It happens, but usually at the least elite, so to speak. Plus those students don’t get bonuses and raises in general, with the exceptions being those that land some kind of summer gig. In companies most employees get at least raises, in colleges few get more direct benefits than what they got coming in.
As for some of the other comments, you take what I am saying far too literally. You don’t have to say to Harvard anything about Yale or Stanford directly. Man, I thought that was completely obvious. By telling Harvard why they have something that makes them the best fit for you, by implication you are saying it has something a number of other schools don’t or don’t have as good as what they offer. And just to remind everyone, I agreed that this would probably not be as important, if at all, to Harvard et. al. anyway. But I hardly think it would kill your application.
Of course they assume they are competing for your acceptance of their offer, should they make one, with several other elite schools. Now maybe you didn’t get into the others, but they no longer know that since they were forced to stop comparing some years ago. And of course for Yale you might pick something different to extol and personalize. That is how the game is played, and as long as it is reasonably honest, there is nothing ethically wrong with it.
The lack of a specific Why Us question doesn’t mean an elite isn’t looking for the same sense in your other writings, how you present yourself and the understanding of the match. And remember, match is more than stats and that they have some program. Or some rep.
*Therefore it is highly relevant to be able to say to that college “By attending your school I feel I will reach my highest potential as compared to other schools, because of these features”. *
As said, it’s clear OP is aiming high. And answers like that are really a dime a dozen. It goes with the high school thinking that “I want” is all it takes. I want to be a doctor and you have X program. I am a top student, want a top college, and you are a top college." (Really.) Or I want to make my mark in life and you will best help me get there.
So what? Where there is fierce competition, not only do the stakes change, but the so do the expectations. Getting an admit is not about what you want, but how you contribute to the whole. The savvy kids will know a college well enough to see their place in this whole. While a corporation may not care about your own “thrive,” the elites are trying to find that symbiosis, what you do for us, what we offer you. And they are focusing on your four year experience, you in their community now, how you will add to that the whole experience for their community, not how you wish your future past that.
Pizzagirl is advocating a more refined perspective, one befitting the stab at a college that rejects 90% or more. I agree with that.
@MYOS1634 stated: “UC applications require two essays and those are of primary importance once the GPA establishes you’re in range. However with those two essays you can apply to 8 universities (with the 9th being Merced left for statewide/local context admission)”
The UC system changed their application this year. They now have eight “personal insight” questions. Applicants choose four of the eight questions to write about and submit with their application. http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/how-to-apply/personal-questions/freshman/
Years ago, there was a thread in which a poster (I think epiphany but I could be wrong) talked about misconceptions that her students had in writing essays. One of the things she noted was that students from Hispanic backgrounds in particular tended to really have a hard time because they saw these prompts as ways to demonstrate “how much I love you” and didn’t understand that colleges are not in the business of picking you to satisfy your needs, but picking you to satisfy theirs - and that effusive displays of love were not convincing.