<p>valentino- Your schol caps at 10? My s's caps at 6. </p>
<p>Older s applied to 2, younger s applied to 4. Funny, even combined, their applications are less in total than a lot of others ! LOL. That said, I wish all of you the best of luck, and am glad we are done!</p>
<p>To me, any student who wants to position him or herself for admission to the most prestigious school possible and does this by handing in as many applications as possible is setting himself or herself up for disappointment.</p>
<p>In the non-CC world and the non-uberrich world, as many threads have labored to point out, where you go to school is sort of besides the point and most people probably haven't heard of your prestigious, fancy-pants college anyways (unless it's Harvard or Yale, for which reactions will be volatile-- either you'll get patted on the back or you'll get stared down). So prestige shouldn't be your guiding light, unless you have your heart set on being an investment banker or something, to which I say godspeed, and don't call me when you realize that the job is a terrible fit for you.</p>
<p>Then there's the argument that the best education is available at the highest-ranked school. Again, I think this argument is tenuous at best, because the best teachers I've had at Chicago are now at schools ranked 25, 30-something, and 50, not 9, like Chicago. Though you would probably hear people argue that Chicago would give a better education than 25, 30-whatever, and 50, and people will point to its rank as proof of its quality of education. Not necessarily. (Two of the three profs I'm thinking of are also very well-recognized researchers in their field).</p>
<p>Then comes the argument that the strongest students are going to gravitate to the highest ranked schools. While that may be true, if you use SAT/ACT as a <em>rough</em> indicator for student strength, students with high test scores spread out and plateau in a way that USNEWS ranking don't account for. Also, considering how variable test scores can be-- (my score went from a 1300 to a 1410 without me studying extra for it)-- it seems silly to point towards one school as definitively "better" because the midranges are slightly higher. Had my score stayed at a 1300, I would have looked like a very different person on paper when in fact I am the same person who just happened to get luckier on the second try. Also, given how much test scores reflect test prep (as in, most of the kids in my school had private SAT tutors while my mom just bought me an SAT prep book which I opened maybe once or twice), it seems like test scores don't do much justice in measuring smart, nor do they do justice in measuring that "this is the kind of person I want to spend time with" feel.</p>
<p>So what does it make sense to look for in a school? It makes sense to look for fit (and, of course, financial aid, but I'm playing around in a world where everything is free). It makes sense to look for schools that make you, aspiring college student, feel yummy and delicious inside, the schools that you think will help you articulate who you are, the schools you feel like will give you the kinds of opportunities and experiences you want, whatever those experiences may be.</p>
<p>So thinking about what you want in a college will not only help you narrow your college list in one dimension (the prestige one), but it will help you expand it in the dimensions you care about. So maybe you do end up applying to 20 schools, but they'll be 20 schools you're legitimately excited about, not just the 20 schools you think you might like but don't really know for sure.</p>
<p>I cannot tell you how much I regret using prestige as a guiding (but not ultimate) force in my own college list, and how I wish I would have paid attention to the factors that mattered to me more.</p>
<p>I applied to 11 schools. </p>
<p>But looking back, I should have probably applied to only eight of them.</p>
<p>Think about your sanity, too. It IS your senior year, so try not to make it more stressful than it already can be :).</p>
<p>Sanity is overrated.</p>
<p>(Better an insane investment banker than a sane beggar, amirite? :p)</p>
<p>I like your math. You can go further: if everyone else is applying to 10-15 schools, you almost have to do the same thing to even the odds. Kind of like buying raffle tickets.</p>
<p>The comment about applications to reaches being a crapshoot is also insightful. Admissions committees don't just take all the valedictorians, NM Scholars, etc. Most want to build a diverse class of students with different strengths. And if your application happens to be sandwiched in between two relative duds, your chances of being noticed by the reader go up.</p>
<p>Sorry, in my last post I should have referred to cellardweller's post on p. 2. It's been awhile since I posted and I forgot how this works.</p>
<p>Hey George, I think you are advertising your blog and that is a violation of the TOS. Where's tokenadult ????</p>
<p>Wow! 20+ schools? I'm trying to find some more. So far, I have only found 4 that I'm in love with. (And believe me, I'm only parting with $60-75 for LOVE.)</p>
<p>1 reach (Columbia <-- Maybe, not even in love with this one. True love is NYU, but too expensive)
1 match (BU)
2 safeties (Pitt & DePaul)</p>
<p>Msneicirenee, Aren't NYU, Columbia, BU similar in cost?</p>
<p>Msneicirenee, Aren't NYU, Columbia, BU similar in cost?</p>
<p>BU offered my valedictorian more generous financial aid (both in need and merit) though.</p>
<p>Mathteacher;</p>
<p>I agree that the behavior of other applicants signficantly affects your chances of admission especially at selective colleges. As an EC for MIT I have been told by the Admissions Office that only 16% of admitted students are considered academic superstars (math olympiad medalists, Intel finalists ..) that have a high probability of admission (greater than 50%). That means of the APPLICANT pool less than 3% of applicants have a greater than even shot at admission (MIT has no athletic recruiting or legacy preference). The remaining 97% essentially have long odds. Odds are not very different at HYP or Stanford. Therefore even highly qualified students, valedictorians. top SAT scorers have absolutely no assurance that they will be admitted to a particular school in that group. On the other hand there is reasonable likelihood they will admitted to at least one very selective college if they cast a wide enough net. </p>
<p>At our local public school, one of the most competitive in CT, all the high honors students (top 3%) apply to anywhere from 10 to 20 schools. Not only do the guidance counselors not try to limit the number of applications, they actually encourage the practice, realizing fully well that there is no guarantee a top student will get into any particular college. The school would most likely be sued by irate parents if it set some arbitrary limit on applications. On graduation, the local paper publishes the names of all the seniors as well as the colleges they will attend. It becomes a 'brag-sheet' for the town. In an indirect way, good results has helped keep property prices stable despite the real-estate collapse. People will continue to be attracted to towns that can offer good education opportunities, and the metric are admission results to selective colleges. </p>
<p>There is an "arms-race" of sorts with other competitive high schools in the region to have the largest number of students going to top 20 colleges and LACs. Good admission results at selective colleges gives the HS better recognition by adcoms in turn leading to increased placements in future years. As the competition is ratcheting up, everybody tries to keep pace. The students, the teachers, the guidance counselors, all work furiously for results. More APs, higher SAT scores, better recs, more polished essays, more ECs... You have to pedal faster and faster just to keep your place. You snooze, you lose! In a utopian world, the school would find a reasonable college fit for each student. A school principal advocating a "disarmement strategy" would be tarred, feathered and carried out of town on a rail.</p>
<p>Re MIT and athletic recruiting: I personally know a kid who was contacted by an MIT coach. The kid wasn't particularly interested in MIT, so I don't know how far it went, but they did contact him. So did the University of Chicago, another school that I thought was free of athletic recruiting.</p>
<p>Everything else being equal, a recommendation by a coach may a slight tip factor at MIT, but there are no separate admission standards for athletes nor do the coaches have any reserved slots.</p>
<p>Yes, very true now that I think through it, cptofthehouse. You may be the first person EVER to actually change my stubbornness and apply to NYU. Thanks!</p>
<p>Find one EA reach and one EA safety, depending on results this may reduce the RD list drastically and give you peace of mind.</p>
<p>Believe me, a great high school hockey player (ice) will have a leg up on all other applicants at MIT, including all but the brightest academic superstars. There is a thread here that posts a letter to high-level alums from MIT admissions regarding the wonderful class they have admitted this year and the letter speaks of both athletic and academic stars.<br>
I could not get the link to work but here is the letter:
Initial Profile of the Admitted Class </p>
<hr>
<p>The following is part of an email sent to the MIT Educational Council this morning:</p>
<p>"-- The 13,396 applications is the largest we have ever had, representing an 8% increase over last year. Our admit rate of 11.6% is our lowest admit rate ever. Of particular note is our double digit increases in applications from women (12%), under-represented minorities (13%), and international students (12%). The increased depth in our applicant pool led to a particularly strong admitted class.</p>
<p>-- We put just over 700 students on the wait list, a slightly larger number than last year, to cover for the unpredictability of the yield this year.</p>
<p>-- Our alumni interviewers (Educational Counselors) interviewed over 9,000 applicants.</p>
<p>-- We had applications from 138 foreign countries, admitting students from 66 foreign countries, including from Gaza, Malawi, and Swaziland.</p>
<p>-- The academic quality of the students is quite strong. Relative to last year, we saw level SAT means, with the math median ticking up 10 points to 780 this year. There was a 30% increase in the number of academic stars. This was due to both improved identification of these students, as well as recruiting more into our applicant pool (22% increase in academic star applicants).</p>
<p>-- We increased the number of admitted non-academic stars (athletes, musicians, and artists) by 35%, for the same reasons as noted above for academic stars (62% increase in non-academic star applicants).</p>
<p>Enjoy.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that NYU has a rep of being stingy with financial aid and will gap with impunity whereas Columbia will meet 100% of need and BU has a matrix on there fin aid page where you can pretty accurately gauge what you can expect from them. However, I know a number of kids with high stats that got a nice windfall for NYU--it was their best package, so if NYU really wants you, they will ante up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Believe me, a great high school hockey player (ice) will have a leg up on all other applicants at MIT, including all but the brightest academic superstars.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Completely untrue. MIT has never tried to have a competitive hockey team. I am an EC at MIT and sit in on meetings where the admissions office discusses the profiles of the admitted class. There is no preference for athletes over other types of non-academic superstars, and they all have to meet the same academic qualifications as any other applicant. No SAT "discount" for athletes. The core curriculum is just too intense to risk admitting students who would not cut it academically. </p>
<p>A hockey player will have about the same chance as a musician, juggler, artist or cheerleader. With the average SAT scores of applicants climbing higher and higher, MIT welcomes applicants with some demonstrated passion outside of academics. If you are top math/science student and also a national caliber performer of some kind, you will definitely stand out in the application process. For whatever reason, MIT has excelled in some of 'pirate' sports, mostly individual events involving water or weapons; rowing, sailing, swimming, pistol shooting, fencing. This is not from some deliberate recruiting effort as much as the profiles in these sports seem to fit well with the MIT candidate personalities. They also have one of the best college orchestras in the country.</p>