<p>My son wants to attend a school with a good/great BFA Acting programs. I try to take off the rose-colored glasses us parents wear and look at his college perspectives realistically. He is extremely smart, but made the decision to take a stand against home work for a couple years, so his grades are weak. His test scores are good (not stellar, but above average). We know there are certain schools that won't consider him because of the grades and are not applying to those. We know others that weigh auditions heavily, so many of those are on the list.</p>
<p>With as competitive as the audition process is at the schools, we are applying to a lot of BFA programs (most are discussed on this forum in some level of detail). The question I have is, "How many is too many?"</p>
<p>The list right now is 25 audition based programs and 2 safeties (non-audition/he is a fit with grades). </p>
<p>Everyone has a different threshold for “crazy” I would recommend focusing on the top 10 to 15 schools first, especially if there are pre-screens to submit. I am concerned that your son’s stand against homework may follow him into college as there will be papers to write, projects to do, etc. and the expectation will be that the assignments be completed.</p>
<p>My son did 14 and it required him to write several essays (4 or 5) do a couple prescreens and have 4 monologues ready. Once auditions started it consumed pretty much all weekends jan-feb plus 1 in Nov and 2 in March (callbacks.) it meant dropping out of a show senior year and missing out on a lot (weekends with friends etc.) He was burned out by the end. It depends how many of his schools are auditioned, how close you are to a unified/regional city, of course money (app fees, audition fees, travel fees), and amount of time, stamina, organization skills etc. </p>
<p>25 seems like a lot, especially for a boy and especially if you have two viable safeties. There have been girls in the MT forum who have done more than 20, but most of the guys tend to apply to just over or under 10. </p>
<p>Also take a look at what your kid wants out of a BFA program. It really seems to vary between schools and could be helpful if he has a specific want or need. Some BFAs have a number of undergrad requirements, some area conservatory-like environment (some are not), some have (or don’t allow) studying abroad… those are all important considerations for deciding “how many.” Some schools are in big cities, some are in small towns. Some are in NY, some are not. Those are all factors that might help your son get to a more manageable list–simply based on logistics. </p>
<p>Plus, let’s get real. You have a boy. BFA programs need boys. Not to say those boys aren’t as talented as girls. It’s just a much smaller pool of talent to pull from and a greater need to have boys, since theatre requires so many male roles. </p>
<p>I personally think more than 20 is WAY too many unless your kid really wants to do nothing senior year except apply to schools. Plus, consider the time and expense to make the auditions because that many schools will certainly require more than just one unifieds city to complete. Most schools have their audition dates/locations out now. Maybe take a look at a calendar and see if you can feasibly even schedule all the schools, and whittle down from there </p>
<p>I have a girl and we’re at 13 schools, including one BFA safety where she received a very early acceptance. Each of the schools meet very specific criteria for the type of program she decided she wanted, and are probably a varied level of selectivity and elite-ness to create a good mix. She is just as fine (or as close as anyone can be) attending her safety as she is any of the other programs on her list. </p>
<p>I would say don’t get deeply caught in the “they will always need boys” train of thought. I know 2 boys who graduated from my D’s PA school last year who applied to multiple BFA schools (a mix of programs) and got 0 BFA offers. These are kids who had had leads in classical and contemporary shows, as well as musicals- talented guys. One decided to pursue a BA in theater at a well respected school that has a BFA program, and hope to re audition for the BFA next year (a girl in the class above them did that successfully with the another program) the other is attending a state school, taking theater classes, and deciding what to do next. </p>
<p>With that said- the logistics of 25 seems mind boggling, my brain almost melted juggling half that last year. I agree with the comment above that says prioritize, get those schools (and their essays and prescreens and bears oh my) set, then see what else you can do. </p>
<p>Yes, I’d say that 25 qualifies as crazy. Especially for a kid who has taken a stand against homework, how will he possibly put the best possible effort into everything that is needed for 25 apps? With an appropriate list of schools, far fewer than 25 auditions should be necessary. </p>
<p>By the way, I agree with toowonderful about the ‘they will always need boys’ comment. From my experience, and that of the friends I know who have worked at college auditions for a long time, the pool of boys auditioning is usually more evenly, highly talented than the pool of girls, even though the number of boys is far fewer. Don’t underestimate the competitiveness of the process.</p>
<p>If there is anything certain about this process, it is probably the uncertainty. I shouldn’t over-generalize the boys as shoe-ins for any program. I guess my sense is that, assuming that a boy truly has “talent” that he is a more coveted asset than a girl with the same “talent” because there are more girls in the pool with the “talent” than boys. </p>
<p>I still think 25 schools is probably unnecessarily too many, boy or girl. I can’t even imagine the logistics of doing that. I think it would take 2 Unified weekends, if not all 3 just to get them all in. </p>
<p>Count me in the group that thinks applying to 25 schools is crazy and totally unnecessary. NOBODY needs that many schools to garner a couple of acceptances. If it were to take that many to get one acceptance, then the applicant is likely not competitive for BFA admissions. There are numerous reasons to not apply to that many. The effort that one should devote to applications and essays will be diluted. No way to put one’s best foot forward with that many apps and to express solid interest in a school. Attending all those auditions and preparing the many variations required of audition material is going to be nuts. The fees and travels will add up. Moreoever, say the kid is lucky enough to be admitted to half the schools…about 12 acceptances. If the kid hasn’t narrowed down their college selection criteria and preferences by now, then they will have just one month (April) to visit and focus and narrow down which program they like best. That’s too late to be putting that kind of exploration into this process, and that exploration is important. This should not be a process of shoot as many arrows as possible and hope to hit a target. Rather, the student should be deeply investigating the various schools and finding the best fits that meet their individualized selection criteria. On top of that, the list should be appropriate to that student’s academic and artistic qualifications, and the list should be balanced in terms of both academic and artistic odds. </p>
<p>I haven’t met a student yet who truly needs more than 10 to 14 schools. The total will vary depending on individual circumstances, but I’d say most students don’t need more than 12 total schools. My D applied to 8 (for MT). I think it is ill advised to apply to much more than 14 total (and most don’t even need that), but surely not 25. Just my opinion, having advised applicants in this field for 11 years now and observed many admissions cycles. </p>
<p>While I think 25 is overwhelming I don’t totally agree with " If it were to take that many to get one acceptance, then the applicant is likely not competitive for BFA admissions" in the above post. I know a person in last years cycle that auditioned for about 15(and a few walk-ins) and the only MT acceptance was NYU-and that certainly is competitive. </p>
<p>^^^Yes, that can happen. But that is 15 schools, not 25. I don’t think if one is truly competitive for a BFA, that it takes 25 to get that one acceptance.</p>
<p>Also, I will add that I believe OVERALL, that the odds for MT programs are tougher than for most ACTING programs. There are exceptions at the very tippy top schools. But the acceptance rate for most acting programs is a bit higher than for MT. </p>
<p>For example, at NYU/Tisch, the acceptance rate for Acting is higher than for Musical Theater. The OP is trying for Acting and the example in post #10 is for MT (nor do I know the gender). For MT, it is typically more difficult odds for girls than boys. </p>
<p>Thanks, everyone! It does seem to be a bit crazy/overwhelming, particularly with homework, rehearsals, and shows in November. The biggest issue right now is the essays and getting them done in time to get auditions scheduled for unifieds. He has a few done, but he has a handful of essays left to write. I think all are for the schools that would make the top 15 . . . We will have to reevaluate this weekend. </p>
<p>I’m hoping all of us keep our sanity through this college application process. It’s a lot different than I remember:)</p>
<p>First-- unless his grades are abysmal, they won’t break him, not even at NYU or BU. (Maybe at Michigan?) The audition is paramount. If he has “rebelled” against schoolwork, how is he managing all the essays necessary for so many schools? D has always been super-motivated, but 15 applications wore her out, even before auditioning. I’d suggest that he find a place to apply that reports back early. Emerson, Hartt, UArts come to mind as auditioned programs with an early date (but not ED). If he gets one of those, then he can cut back on the auditions and maybe applications. Say he gets into UArts-- and there are only 10 programs that seem as good or better than UArts to him…he would only do those 10 auditions rather than than a gruelling 25. It’s dizzying by the end, and it’s hard to imagine audition #25 being as fresh and energetic as audition #5. But here’s to 25 acceptances!</p>
<p>^^Unfortunately, abysmal grades will not fly at BU. Can’t speak for other programs. As a matter of fact, one student from last year lost all of their grant money because they didn’t keep their grades up (this student had to drop out of the program). So, not only are grades important for admission - as important as the audition - they are important throughout the 4 years. And even the BFA has plenty of homework/papers with a very heavy schedule as well. So if your son has very low grades and an aversion to homework, BU might not be a good fit for him.</p>
<p>@RosaRugosa - You may have information that I don’t have- but on their website, NYU says that more than 75% of their entering freshman class (university wide - not just Tisch) have a gpa of 3.5 or higher- and the overall acceptance rate was 34% in 2014. Tisch’s published admission rate is 24%, school wide, idk for drama majors in particular. Boston’s university admission rate was the same, as NYU’s 34% and they list their “average gpa” at 3.59 - I have no specific stats for school of drama. I wouldn’t say “unless you are abysmal” (although I guess it depends on how you define it) University of Michigan is listed with a 32% admission rate- right on par… All three Universities are listed as “very selective” - and at auditions last year for BU and NYU - They stressed that you had to be admitted academically before you could be admitted artistically. I have heard stories from both schools of kids who were below grade standard and were still accepted - and I would never tell anyone not to try, but it would seem less likely. </p>
<p>25 is too many in my opinion. My daughter applied for 15 and she ended up dropping two after an early acceptance. It was very difficult to manage even that many and I don’t think we could have except for two factors: (i) she decided to forego any involvement in the winter show at her high school as it created too many conflicts and (ii) we live in NJ which made it easier to do audition scheduling than it would be from other parties of the country. </p>
<p>I know students at NYU and at BU whose grades and scores were well below standard…they’re good actors though. In both cases they applied to a number of schools and only got into the one. No, it’s not going to happen for everyone, but it happens regularly enough that I would not discourage someone from applying. NYU takes by far the largest class of actors of any school in the country–probably more than all the other schools combined-- I really don’t like to see kids deciding not to apply because of their grades. </p>
<p>@RosaRugosa - again, I don’t doubt that you know students who are exceptions- and as I said before, if any kids feel a particular school is the best place for them- the SHOULD go for it- the worst thing that can happen is a school says no. (which is why thousands of kids audition for “lottery” schools where the odds are under 1%, after all, they ARE going to take someone). Another caveat though - yes NYU takes more kids into Tisch than any other single program, but that is because NYU isn’t one program- it’s 7. (in primary studios) And there are approximately 84 (by my rough count) BFA schools on the Big list- I would find it hard to believe (in fact I know to be impossible) that Tisch is taking more than everyone else combined. Remember Boston alone accepts nearly 100…</p>
<p>While NYU is a large program, what you have to examine are Acceptance RATES. Tisch’s Drama program (and for MT) has a very low acceptance rate. </p>
<p>In terms of academics, the admission program to NYU/Tisch counts academics 50% of the admissions decision (50% is artistic). As another poster indicated, getting into NYU is academically selective. A poor academic record (everyone’s definition of that differs) will not fly (examine the stats of admitted students to NYU, readily available online…the Common Data set). An applicant should be remotely in the ballpark of those stats. While outliers may be admitted, their chances are WAY slimmer if they don’t fall in the ballpark/range of admitted stats to the university.</p>
I would recommend focusing on the top 10 to 15 schools first, especially if there are pre-screens to submit. I am concerned that your son’s stand against homework may follow him into college as there will be papers to write, projects to do, etc. and the expectation will be that the assignments be completed.</p>