<p>Emeraldkity4,
YES. That's why I thought it important that DS deal with the paperwork at school vs. data entry -- he has had problems with asking for help from teachers in the past, and He (and I) needed to know he could self-advocate.</p>
<p>Bethie, I remember you pulling your hair out last year and your S setting his own pace. I have tried to remember that for this year!</p>
<p>Actually, I let up on him after he'd applied to MY favorite schools. But before that I was ridiculous. He even finished one while visiting the grandparents over the holidays. And he left his reachiest to last, which also helped my nerves toward the end because I didn't think they were any better than the less reachy ones.</p>
<p>"We spend the better part of two months working on apps 3-4 days a week, for a couple of hours a night." (from TrinSF)</p>
<p>Wow! I have no idea how long it took my kids to write their big essays (D wrote six different ones, then picked the best, S pulled out one he'd written in 8th grade (really) and rewrote three sentences)--but the rest of the apps (one common app and supplements for five schools for D, two apps for S) took only a few hours/app for each kid.</p>
<p>DS had a minimum of ten drafts each on his big essays. He has (I think) six big essays, then various shorter ones. The resume has also gone through many, many versions as things change. Most of that time was devoted to the EA apps; now that he has a bunch of pieces to work with, it's a quicker cut/paste/modify job. TrinSF's numbers don't sound out of whack to me at all.</p>
<p>dmd77: Well, it wasn't just the big essays, though he had a lot of those. (U Chicago has a very involved essay process). It was also many short answer essays. Son also had to write "special circumstances" additional material, to explain not having parent info for father, and why he changed schools for senior year. That last thing is a big deal for some schools, because they look at changing schools as a possible red flag. It also meant that all his recommenders had only known him for 2-3 months, because the teachers at his old school were all gone. He had to explain why there were no recommendations from 9-11th grade teachers -- school had high turnover because it sucked so badly. </p>
<p>For the essays, my son did 10-15 revisions, both major "I don't think this topic is working for me" and minor rewordings. Oh, and there was also the graded paper requirement. He put extra work into that paper, which had to do with something involving Freud and poetics and explicating some Emily Dickinson poems about love within the context of Jonathan Lear's writings about Eros. It was a step beyond many things he'd written before, and really pulled together many of the threads of his academic passions. It wasn't that he got a higher grade than other papers, but that he wanted it to showcase his writing and ideas. </p>
<p>I have gone on too much, but I guess what I'm saying is that he was very thoughtful about the work, and that it was a long term project. He worked hard on his part, and I did what I could to support him. There was a lot at stake for him -- he needed to be admitted and get a full ride. Why on earth would I say my son, "Hey, one of the most important undertakings in your life that may affect many things to come, but I refuse to help you with it one bit, because I feel like it will make you weak and irresponsible if you don't do this completely on your own?" I mean, even when I gave birth to him, I had the support of my husband and family, breathing along with me. :-)</p>
<p>I helped when he asked for it.
Read the essay if he asked me to. Pointed out typos.
Kept my mouth shut on content, and bit my tongue at the short word count.</p>
<p>Paid with the credit card.</p>
<p>PS: And he still drove me crazy at the last minute!</p>
<p>I had to proof read my D's common application. She is a very creative person and i was worried she was going to put down she was raised by wolves. I asked her to sign on to common app and looked over her shoulder. Good proof read, we found a few things to add.</p>
<p>8 hours a week for two months doing applications></p>
<p>why so much time? that is astounding, there is something amiss when that much time is spent</p>
<p>75% of applications are the same information</p>
<p>that much time- 15 rewrites...again, don't get it</p>
<p>My daughter started her application in early August and she put in more time and still not done. It takes time to write and rewrite. She only applied to 6/7 schools. Most of her private schools are on the Common App. Only USC has a separate application. The UCs have another application. But don't forget there are a lot of stuff going on before the writing of the essays. She had to write brag sheet for Counselor, which took some time and thought. The same thing with brag sheet for her 2 teachers. She had to fill out application and one essay for NMSF. On top of keeping up with 6 hard classes, a part time job, a full time EC, and entering an EC related contest. Multiple rewriting of multiple essays as well as updating multiple time her activities list took time. Yeap, lots of things are going on at the same time. It's not as easy as it seems.</p>
<p>I could have written UCDAlum's post (#66?). I have been very involved in the boys' school activities since they started school, but I noticed as they grew more capable, I slowly "got fired." I resented it at first, but as I watched their confidence and good judgment develop, I felt better letting go.</p>
<p>I agree that each to his own when it comes to helping kids with their application. What works for one may not necessarily work for another. In my case, the boys are doing well. S1 will be graduating in May from his ED school. S2, a freshman is having a great start at his school.He writes for his school paper- the only freshman on staff. He is having fun playing for the pep band and is a member of a couple other clubs. His English professor just emailed encouraging him to enter some writing competition. This is the same boy who was known for being a procrastinator in high school. The same one who once called home for mom to bring his assignment he left on the kitchen counter. One of my friends could not believe I dropped off said paper at school. </p>
<p>I read both boys' essays after the fact- S1 when I was cleaning his room after he left for college. S2 when I was "cleaning" the laptop. I thought S1's essay was blah, and S2's "Why----" was what got him accepted.</p>
<p>Four of DS's schools did not use Common App. DS had to do write up for GC recommendation (so did I -- there was a parent version, too). Teacher recs each wanted resume (had to be updated from last spring's internship search) and had separate questionnaires asking for other info. Test score reports ordered. Supplemental recs also needed info. NMSF application/essay. Siemens research paper due October 1. Physics SAT II Oct. 10th. Intel submission (more and <em>different</em> essays than for college apps) due 11/14. Presentation and backboard to be prepared for competition. Practice presentation and questions. Trip out of town for competition. Teach/TA one period a day four to five days a week. Continue research work with mentor. Prepare research paper for submission to conference for possible publication. Work on major technical upgrade for EC website (50 hours over Thanksgiving week alone). Write essay for full-ride scholarship. Oh, yeah. Classes. Other ECs. Chores. Sleep.</p>
<p>And I should have to explain why I typed mailing labels?</p>
<p>CGM, DS was eager and willling to devote as much time as needed to writing and refining his essays. No sense in busting his tail for four years, only to have his dreams shot down by not spending enough time on the essays. Eight hours a week for eight weeks is 64 hours. Divided by 6 apps averages out to a little under 11 hours per app. Not unreasonable when one considers all the steps that must be performed -- esp. when the tasks I've listed above are my son's responsibility, not mine. Some apps took much more time; others benefited from the hard work he put in up front on those first applications. About half of the schools on his list offer substantial merit $$; that was further motivation to write standout essays.</p>
<p>It has been a joy and privilege to watch how far my son has come in the past few years. He chose a far tougher road through high school than he might have otherwise taken, and we made the decision as a family to make it a team effort. DS2 has chosen a similar path, and he will have our full support as well.</p>
<p>I am a big proponent of having our kids learn life lessons early and when the consequences are small, of allowing them the room to make mistakes before they are in a situation where the consequences are life altering. (Turn in a homework assignment late: earn a reduced grade. Habitually miss deadlines at work: lose your job)</p>
<p>IMO, the consequences of not having ALL the skills to navigate the college admissions and the merit scholarship processes,but being required to do so even when parental support is available, are not small.</p>
<p>So I guided and aided where necessary and helpful. And S learned in the process.</p>
<p>11 hours per app is still high</p>
<p>My D did 8 apps- 2 of which were common app- she TOO had essays, forms, resume, etc, but again, MOST of it was pretty much the SAME information- I just don't get why it took 11 hours per application</p>
<p>If it was my kid, I would wonder about their style of working</p>
<p>My D had to write a ten page paper in 3 days, assigned as the "take home final" - if she didn't have a process, a way of thinking and training in writing, she never would have gotten it done, while studying for several other finals, and all the other college activities- interning, etc.</p>
<p>90% of most applications can be filled out, even by hand in less than an hour- so that means ten hours for essays for each college, though many are very similar</p>
<p>I am talking about this, because when your son goes to college, and he is having to right several papers simultaneously, he needs to know how to write and write quickly</p>
<p>He may be able to, who knows, but after talking to lots and lots of kids, who ALL did every part of their OWN applications, no one took 11 hours on an application, much less averaging that for 6</p>
<p>I bring up the point that when something takes that long, and others fill in forms for the applicant, what is the applicant really doing with that time?</p>
<p>It depends on the essay question. For some questions, my D churned out an essay in less than 3 hours, very little rewritting. Some took longer. Some took a few tries before she knew where she was going with it. It's not an exact science. It varies depends on the question.</p>
<p>while I think Reed required * three?* essays, and lots of scholarships required statements or essays- older Ds schools mostly were public and I think she used the common app, although I think she filled them in and mailed them.</p>
<p>But still I can see taking a lot of time- because the more you worry about something the more you 2nd guess yourself and rewrite.
It takes me so long to do some emails even, because I want to get the right * tone* :)</p>
<p>For something like a college essay, I can see spending way too much time on it- angsting over everylittle thing.
Students even worry about the pictures they send in & extra info- perhaps it is better to just have a marathon weekend.</p>
<p>( except that is when you make really dumb mistakes- like when I was on a principal hiring committee and the intro letter from the applicant was - I really want to work at Billy bob school yadda yadda- however the school hiring commitee was at Sally Sues school ;) the funny thing is- they hired her anyway and three years later the job at Billy bob school opened up and she went there )</p>
<p>Well; as has been mentioned numerous times in various posts, many of the kids have other very productive and important things they are doing with their "Spare" time. Sometimes this spare time is simply relaxing because they have been doing 18 hour days all week. Sometimes it's essays, homework, sports, work, ec, etc... These too are commitments that the students have. They can't simply "choose" to not go to work or football practice because they "choose" to do their college applications instead. This might work for a "Club" or organization that isn't as demanding. A job or organized sport has a commitment and responsibilities that require your presence. To "Choose" to not do it on a particular day because you "Choose" to spend that time doing an application can result in losing your part time job or position on the team. This is NOT a situation where you need to "Choose". You shouldn't have to or need to. We are a family. Families help each other. Families work together. Families support each other. Nothing is lost by having your family "HELP" you with a task. Help means as a team. It doesn't mean doing the entire task for you.</p>
<p>But I do agree with you 100% that there are some kids that spend their free time; beyond acceptable relaxation and down time; being very non-productive. They play video games 3 hours a day every day. They spend 3-4 hours a day in front of the TV. They spend 3-4 hours a day hanging out with their friends. In those cases, the applicant needs to be very much involved in the application process. That doesn't mean that their family still can't help them, just that they can do a larger portion of the task. </p>
<p>I bet my son doesn't even average 1 hour a day of watching tv or any of these other alternative means of spending your time. He gets to see his girlfriend each day at lunch; Friday night for a couple of hours; and Saturday afternoons when the two of them get together TO DO HOMEWORK TOGETHER for Monday. I know he would drool to have the spare time that some people think every kid has. I still believe that every kid needs some "down" time. Time to vegitate. Obviously, 3 hours a day playing video games is excessive. But unfortunately, I think some on this topic believe that excessive free time is the "norm" for all kids. That simply is not the case. </p>
<p>Again; my biggest point is that my wife, I, son, and daughter are a family. As a family, we ALL pull our weight. We all have a responsibility to each other. We all are willing to help each other when needed. When one isn't pulling their weight, the others take matters into their own hands and get them back on track. I.e. My wife, who works full time, does most of the cooking. (She use to be a chef and loves it). But when she felt that the rest of us weren't contributing fairly, she went on strike. Made us cook every night for 2 weeks. If we didn't, then we didn't eat; other than making a sandwich. Didn't take long to get us back on track. My family is a team and I know that both of my kids are better people because of that. My daughter doesn't call me up asking me to fix her problems because I helped her do her college apps and now she doesn't know how to be a functional adult. She does just fine.</p>
<p>The essays, apps, etc... we worked on; 7 of them; took about 3-4 hours each. Between the 3 of us, we got them all done in about 2-3 weeks.</p>
<p>I'm a student.</p>
<p>Application-wise, I have done everything (forms + essays). Parent is working on the FAFSA, though, for obvious reasons.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I want to get the right tone
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think that is what she was trying to do. </p>
<p>As for boyfriend, D has not seen her boyfriend since homecoming dance. She told him she is busy with apps. Luckily he is very understanding. He does not go to her high school so she does not see him everyday.</p>
<p>But I think the important thing is to keep in mind that all kids are different. Their mental health should also be of consideration. If they need to do something to relax before going crazy and depressed, let them relax. Mine does not play video game nor watching tv. But I notice the more stressed she is the more she starts to play piano which is one activity that really put her to sleep when she was younger. Hey at least I know the money I spent on piano lessons was not a total waste.</p>
<p>DS can crank things out quickly when he needs to. My point is that he wanted his essays to sparkle -- and that required editing, coming back to it time and again, and polishing. The other thing that makes a research paper or English assignment from a college essay is that the college essays require some significant introspection. What do I expose of myself? Do I show just the good parts? Do I talk about my failures? How do I show, not just tell? DS laid his heart and soul out there, and that took a lot of courage and time on his part to get it just right.</p>
<p>It was time well spent, and it has been thrilling to share this journey.</p>