How many reference letters? Who should be asked to write?

Parents Forum
1

<p>My D came home from a meeting with her guidance counselor this week, and said that the GC recommended that she ask two junior year teachers for write reference letters. Unfortunately, there are not really two junior year teachers that I think would be good choices, so I'm looking for some advice.</p>

<p>Are two teacher reference letters actually necessary, or is one sufficient? The few schools I've checked all seem to require one teacher and one GC reference. I've also seen some schools asking that you not send a lot of extra reference letters.</p>

<p>How are non-teacher recommendations considered, e.g. from a coach? My D has devoted a lot of time over a lot of years to horseback riding competition. I think she would get a much better letter from her trainer of the last 7 years than she would get from a teacher. The trainer could speak to the focus and dedicated required for horseback riding, as well as an impressive record of accomplishment in competition. Should she have two teacher recommendations plus the GC recommendation plus one from the trainer? Or just one teacher plus the GC plus the trainer?</p>

<p>And which teacher(s) to ask? How important is which year the teacher taught the student? How much does the subject matter? How important is it that the student did well in the class taught by that teacher? D has a 3.4 UW GPA and tends to A's in non-honors classes and B's in honors/AP classes (although will probably get her first C this year in honors physics). Our district seems to have tougher grading than most - her rank is top 15%. She will likely have no A's in honors or AP classes this year. She is also somewhat shy and quiet, and not great at in-class participation, so there are no obvious teachers to ask. She will likely apply to colleges as Undecided in the college of arts & sciences, and is considering psychology as her major.</p>

<p>Is it OK to ask a non-core area/non-honors class teacher, or will that look bad? Her junior Child Development teacher loves her and she has a very high A in that class. Child development fulfills a graduation requirement, and is related to her possible career interests. </p>

<p>Is it OK to ask a sophomore, foreign language teacher? She had a good relationship with her sophomore Italian 2 teacher. I don't have any idea if this teacher is a good rec letter writer - I'm guess she doesn't write too many letters. She hopes to have the same teacher senior year for Honors Italian 4, but there is no guarantee she will get that teacher, or even that her schedule will permit her to take Italian 4 at all. (She will take Italian 3 over the summer, because of a scheduling conflict junior year.)</p>

<p>D came home from the GC meeting thinking about asking her junior AP US History for a rec, as the GC said that teacher writes good recs, and she likes the teacher and the class. But I think it is a really bad idea, since at parent-teacher conferences, this teacher had negative things to say about D, that she doesn't work up to her potential, and her grade in the class isn't great, B/B-. </p>

<p>Sorry for the long post, but I would appreciate and feedback and advice.</p>

2

<p>I completely agree with you. I think asking a teacher who had luke warm things to say about her during conferences…in a class where she’s got a low-mid B, is not wise. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with getting a letter from her trainer. It’s a long established relationship and I think colleges really like to hear about a student’s committment and growth in an area over time. The HD and foreign language teachers seem like perfectly acceptable candidates to me. </p>

<p>As an aside, I really hope she can find some way to take the 4th year of the language. I think that would really boost her stats…not that she’s in bad shape to begin with. But I’m hearing more and more that schools really like the 4th year of the language. Good luck to her!</p>

3

<p>I asked this same question not long ago and got great advice. Here is a link to that thread:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1299858-teachers-letters-recommendation.html?highlight=teacher+recommendations[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1299858-teachers-letters-recommendation.html?highlight=teacher+recommendations&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

4

<p>I would recommend reading the college website closely. The truth is, while I am sure the OP’s kid is an awesome horseback rider, I am sure every kid out there could get a recommendation from someone who thought they were great at whatever.</p>

<p>“My son has been in a neighborhood gange since he was a drug runner in 6th grade. He’s moved up the ranks and now has had a lot of interaction with the the enforcer who is second cousins to the leader. Would it be OK to get a recommendation from mr. Kingpin because he can speak best to how much initiative my kid has shown over the years while always eager to take on added responsibility. He now is in charge of sandblasting the serial number off of hot handguns. Would this be considered Art or Civic involvement?”</p>

<p>Just saying… they ask for academic recommendations for a reason. And while i was being completely sarcastic above, why do people think you need an A in a class to get a great recommendation? Seems to me you want a teacher who can a) write reasonably well and b) be in a position to talk about your child’s character, academic engagement and willingness to work hard.</p>

5

<p>Get at least two academic recommendations and then you can have her trainer write one as well (Horseback rider here as well and that’s what I did. I had recs from one junior year teacher, one senior year teacher, and then one from one of my trainers.)</p>

6

<p>I’ve gone through the websites of all of the schools on the under consideration list, and none of them require two teacher recommendations, although one recommends it. A few don’t require any ref letters (Rutgers, Elon) Most are more generic - one GC, and one or two teachers, OK to have one from an activity. Is it better to send one teacher and the trainer vs. two teachers and the trainer vs. two teachers? Perhaps it could be customized per college, but if the high school is involved in sending the letters, I don’t get the feeling that I could count on them to do what we want.</p>

<p>I think she would get a “best in career” type of letter from the trainer, who has been training for about 15 years, albeit with a relatively small number of students, both children and adults.</p>

7

<p>Go for 2 academic LORs. I would try to get that Italian teach again for senior year. I agree, stay away from the APUSH teacher because it would be a kiss of death to have someone say she didn’t work to her potential. </p>

<p>D2 asked 3 teachers for LORs, and asked her GC to pick the best 2.</p>

8

<p>My kids schools nearly all asked for 2 teachers, but you might have a different list. My older son had taken up to AP Latin and had a recommendation from his Latin teacher. I know she said nice things about him (he did well in her class), but in retrospect I wonder if it was really the best choice since she couldn’t really write about his ability to write or make an argument. (The problem with him though was I wasn’t convinced his English or history teachers would write great recommendations since he tended to be lazy - for example writing an APUSH paper where he only cited 4 sources even though he’d read more books than that.) In any event while he got rejected by some top schools, he also got accepted by others. I’d only use the Italian teacher if she has her again as a senior. Otherwise I think too much time has passed.</p>

<p>My younger son got a great recommendation from a math teacher even though he only had a B+ in the class. In that case he loved the teacher, and the teacher was able to write that he had a better understanding of the math theory than many who got better grades, but only because they memorized formulas. </p>

<p>In your case, it sounds like Italian if she can get the teacher again and the trainer as an extra recommendation would be a good choice. (I’d consider talking to the GC and explaining why you’d like this teacher if possible.)</p>