<p>I'm curious and would like to hear from some students who took the PSAT in recent years. How much was doing well on the test stressed by your school? How many students realize that they might have a shot at NMSF and spend some time honing their math and other skills?</p>
<p>The reason I ask is that ages ago when I took the PSAT about a dozen of us out of a class of 30 were just shown to a room and told that we were going to take a test. My recollection is that we were told not to guess if we had no idea what the answer was.</p>
<p>I ended up being a commended student. I'm not sure that there were varying cutoff scores by state in the late 1970s, or else my score might have made it. And I think it would have helped if I had prepared a little bit.</p>
<p>The reason I ask this is that I think it's probably possible for kids in say the 94th percentile in seventh or eighth grade to really bust a gut and pull themselves up to the 97-98th percentile, which is enough for NMSF in many states. Anyone have any thoughts on this? How many people do you guys see trying to do this?</p>
<p>I do not think very many people prepare. At my school I was the only one who did more than the practice test that we got when we registered, and I doubt very many people did that. There were a few students who missed the cutoff by just a couple questions that would probably have gotten it had they prepared. I went from a 201 on my first practice PSAT to a 213 in about a week. Obviously there will be a few schools that stress the importance of the PSAT to its students, but a vast majority of students will just show up on test day not knowing that it is important.</p>
<p>I did some practice tests for the SAT in the beginning of the summer, but I didn’t prepare at all in the months leading up to the PSAT. No one that I knew prepared for it, not even the kids that prepped a lot for the ACT; I ended up being the only NMSF in my school.</p>
<p>My kid cleared our state’s NMF score by 1 point on the PSAT when her school had her take it in 10th grade. She did study some for 11th grade, beat that year’s score by almost 20 points.</p>
<p>Back when we took the PSAT and the SAT and/or ACT 30 years ago, hardly anyone studied. Now it is very common.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments. Anyone know of someone who might have been a 95th percentile person in seventh or eighth grade who worked hard and made it?</p>
<p>These percentile numbers on test scores tend to be pretty static, but my sense is one can improve by several percentage points with effort.</p>
<p>I’m likely to have a couple more questions which I will post in a new thread. Hope to hear some more stories of either preparing or not preparing.</p>
<p>I am not sure this is even a relevant question. It is very, very obvious that you can study for the SAT and improve your scores. Not everyone can improve to a perfect score, but if you have ever read a SAT prep book it is obvious that there are strategies to follow and, especially in the math section, the same type of problems come up repeatedly. So training on those will definitely raise your score.</p>
<p>Intparent, I am well aware that study and test prep can improve scores. It’s just a question of how much. Can a seventh-grader whose achievement tests put him at the 90th percentile make it to the 97.5th percentile with four years of work. What about a kid at the 85th percentile? 80th? At what point does a score in the 97.5th percentile become an achievable goal?</p>
<p>Also, I find it surprising that the schools are not conducting formal, long-term test prep. I refer to the kind of prep where the student actually learns and masters the material. My son’s school had 12 Semifinalists last year out of 224 students. The school also had 27 students who made a 30 or higher on the ACT. My belief is that all 27 of these students had a real shot at being Semifinalists and missed it only because they didn’t prep. Apparently no one is telling them the benefits of prep.</p>
<p>Kids do so much more of the academic work required for a good SAT score in the first couple of years of high school that I think almost all of them will gain a lot of ground in terms of actual points. I don’t see how you could compare percentages within an age group like that, since so few kids take the test in middle school (pretty much just for talent searches). But I think a kid who scores in the 85% percentile or even somewhat lower in middle school has a perfectly decent chance of making NMF if they study.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree that most schools do not support any test prep of significance prior to the PSAT. Some schools do encourage prep for the SAT itself. But I am also going to say that at a lot of top high schools, being NMF isn’t the be-all and end-all. My kid was NMF last year, and it made essentially no difference (a pittance) financially in her college costs in the end. For a kid who can’t afford college any other way, it is a great thing. But for kids already headed for top colleges no matter what, it is almost just “nice to have” (sorry to those who are angsting over it right now, but that is really how it seems to me…).</p>
<p>It wasn’t. Only people in an honors English class were offered the chance to take it, and a lot of people took it their sophomore year and didn’t take it their junior year because no one told them it wasn’t a sophomore-only test. I think a lot of people just thought it was the SAT version of the PLAN. </p>
<p>But they told us a while in advance that it was coming, and in my sophomore year I bought a prep book and did everything in it. My score (210) was a few points below the Ohio cutoff, but luckily I was only a sophomore.</p>
<p>In my junior year I didn’t prepare because I had already gotten a 33 on the ACT earlier that year and I thought I would do about as well. The potential for scholarships didn’t matter to me at first, because I didn’t know about the full-tuition (and similar) scholarships offered by colleges, but now that I’m a NMSF in need of money I’m really glad these scholarships are offered. This year I’m one of two NMSFs in my school, but I don’t think we’ve ever had any before.</p>
<p>I worked with a student(I’m not the tutor, just helped student find this site), who improved 38 points in one year. I know that he spent 25 hours per week studying, but couldn’t afford tutoring. I’m not sure what the percentiles were. So, I think it could be done. Isn’t common among some groups of high achieving folks to have their kids start studying around 6th grade? I’m not sure how without completing their math sequence.</p>
<p>My Daughter took it in 9th grade and scored 64-60-56 = 180 which got us to thinking that NMSF in 2 years time was a reasonable target to aim for.</p>
<p>She did a small test prep (1 practice test, then two 3 hour classroom sessions) with Princeton Review leading up to the PSAT in her Sophmore year, where she scored 71-69-71 = 211. </p>
<p>Needing a 223 in CA for NMSF, she prepped more extensively (for the SAT as well, which she actually took first in early Oct 2012 of her junior year).</p>
<p>In my D’s school, it signs up everyone in 11th grade for PSAT and encourage 10th grader (and 9th grader too) to take it as practice exam with a $10 fee. My D did not really practice much for PSAT but she was preparing for both SAT and ACT over the Summer after sophomore anyway. I know many students did not even start looking at SAT or ACT practice until the middle of junior year. I guess they would not prepare for PSAT at all. It really depends on whether they are well informed. My D’s school has a seminar in early Fall every year talking about all the standardized tests, however, mostly only parents of junior attended. It may be a little bit late as it is a couple weeks before the PSAT. I did go when my daughter was in 10th grade though.</p>
<p>I am also interested in this topic. I do test prep–mostly PSAT/SAT. I live in ACT country and schools do not stress PSAT much here. H and I were both NMF back in the day, so we knew about it, knew our kids had potential, and were looking for scholarships (we have 7 kids). I hear a lot of false info. about the NM program–students say, “Those scholarships are small, and most NMF’s don’t get them anyway.” (They don’t get them because they choose not to take them. But for kids who sign up for an automatic full-tuition or full-ride scholarship, this can be like winning the lottery.) 3/4 of our kids that have been through the process have made it–by only 1-3 points. I credit it to test prep–using books at home. (The other kid who didn’t make it missed by two questions. BTW, all of these kids had standardized scores in the 80s and 90s through the years.) I have coached other NMF’s, also, who thanked me for helping them get big scholarships (one hit right on the cutoff–I can imagine his parents doing a “happy dance.”) One of my kids, after doing the Kaplan PSAT book, got 210 as a sophomore. He worked very hard to gain those few points to make the cutoff the next year. He did more than 20 SAT practice tests to prep for the junior PSAT. He spent about 150 hours total taking practice tests and reviewing missed questions, doing the SAT question of the day online, etc. Most of this was done in the summer before junior year, (some before soph year) during winter/spring breaks, and on Saturday mornings. For that he got a scholarship worth over 150K. I don’t understand why some parents leave this to chance, while letting their kids spend hundreds or thousands of hours on sports or other activities that can’t pay off like this. I think of test prep like training for an athletic competition. Lots of drill, lots of time, lots of error analysis. I get annoyed when I hear that only rich kids who can afford expensive prep courses can make NMF. Anyone with self discipline, some testing aptitude, and $20 for the books, can prep at home. All the tips are in the books and online. (I teach a test prep class, and I tell my students this. I don’t guarantee any results–what they get out of it is what they put into it.) Another pet peeve of mine is when parents say “MY kid made it without even cracking a book!” Well, MY kid made it by working hard on practice tests. (Is there something wrong with that? Does admitting that you probably wouldn’t have made it without prep make you inferior? Is smarter to miss by a point or two because you didn’t prep?)
Regarding those “groups of high achieving folks,” if you look at the names of the semifinalists in our district (and others) you will find that Asians are highly represented. One example–a school that is 7% Asian has more than 50% Asian semifinalists. This doesn’t happen by chance. (all those valedictorians and spelling/geography bee champs don’t get there by chance either.) They want it, and they work for it.
I would like to hear from Indian and Chinese (names I see most) or other Asian students who are NMS–what did you you do to prep for the PSAT?
My next child isn’t as strong in math. We did all of the math questions in the Blue Book last summer (between 8th-9th grades). She had Algebra in 8th grade and could do most of the questions. If you have Algebra and a little Geometry, that is enough. SAT math isn’t like regular math. You can train yourself to do SAT questions, even if you are not up to that level. You just need to recognize the types of questions, the key facts, shortcuts, and tricks/traps, and the more questions you do, the easier it gets to see all of these things.
Most students, however, are unwilling to spend the time on it. Their loss.</p>
<p>We also live in ACT country, but our public library nonetheless offers free, proctored ACT and SAT exams. They are administered by Kaplan who obviously have an interest in selling you on their programs although I found they took “no” for an answer pretty easily. They do give thorough feedback and analysis on the free tests. My two kids both did very well on the practice exams, but then used the feedback to review the areas they had missed on their own. They both also did the SAT Q of the Day - loved that because they felt it was painless to “study” for only a few minutes at a time. Both kids improved their scores further; first one was NMF and second is current NMSF (should also make NMF).
I just noticed our public library now also has online practice PSAT, SAT and ACT exams in their learning library, too. Another free test prep option!</p>
<p>My D only did a few PSAT practice tests as there are not many available, however, she did a lot of SAT practice test before that since the Summer after sophomore. The junior PSAT score went up a lot from sophomore after all these practices. Originally I thought the chance to get the scholarship is small as we have no corporate sponsor and only around 30% of the NMF in her school actually get any NMS. But today, my D just got a scholarship notice from UMN which covers 50-75% of the total oos cost for 4 year college if she ends up with NMF. That is $66-$98k total. This is even before we crunch in data for need based aid. It is far more than I originally thought ($10k per year sponsored by UMN). Now I look back, I am glad that my D actually started early in preparing for SAT (and PSAT). I did signed her up for a short prep course, but most important are the practice tests she did after that. Thanks to the public library system in town that we have access to almost all prep books available in the market.</p>
<p>Its very interesting to read about how different schools handle the PSAT, and sad to know that some kids are missing out on even the chance to take the test. At the end of sophomore year, my daughter was invited to attend a PSAT prep course that is sponsored by the school district over the summer. The class met for a couple hours a week over several weeks, and the class included three study books. The fee came out to around $9/hour for classroom instruction, including the books. What a bargain! I think the camaraderie of studying together helped too. The school district averages about 3% per year with NMSFs.</p>
<p>My D’s school doesn’t emphasize prepping. As a matter of fact I would have never known you could get free practice tests for the PSAT from the guidance office if I hadn’t seen it mentioned here. It wasn’t even mentioned to D when she asked if the school offered any PSAT prep classes.</p>
<p>My D (and all my children) will prep for the PSAT. We are a unique case as my children homeschoole until high school. To get into the out of district high school (the only public school that would be an option for them) they have to have a standardized test from a specific list, the PSAT is the best one for our situation.</p>
<p>D took a prep class before the PSAT test in 8th grade because she had ZERO experience with standardized tests. She thought filling in the bubbles was great fun! The class she took allows unlimited retakes of the class for PSAT <em>and</em> SAT test for a one time fee so we decided it was a good investment. In 8th grade she scored 189. She did not take the test in 9th grade, getting used to going to public school was enough.</p>
<p>She will retake the PSAT this year in 10th grade. She retook the PSAT prep class along with her brother who will be taking the PSAT as an 8th grader this year to allow him to go to the same out of district public high next year. The prep course offers proctored practice tests; D scored 226 and S scored 190. I gave them timed practice tests at home and they both scored higher on the practice test at home than at the testing center so I’m not sure what up with that. Also the prep program is offing a special an additional class just for those students that are working toward NMSF (no additional charge) the week before the test. Both S and D requested to take the additional class.</p>
<p>We plan to follow the pattern of PSAT in 8th grade, 10th grade and 11th grade for all our children with a prep class/review class before each test. I believe all my children have the potential for NMF but it would be much harder without practice in filling in the bubbles (S actually laughed at this - you mean they are going to test my my ability to color in to the lines?) and testing strategies. I believe content has to be learned but test taking skills are also important and maturity plays a part too.</p>
<p>OTH - D has a friend in high school who is very bright and her parents have been enrolling her in SAT prep classes “forever” in her own words, according to D. She is very bright and I’m sure capable but she is not focused and could careless about PSAT or SAT scores. I don’t believe any amount of prep would help this girl.</p>
<p>"My son’s school had 12 Semifinalists last year out of 224 students. The school also had 27 students who made a 30 or higher on the ACT. My belief is that all 27 of these students had a real shot at being Semifinalists and missed it only because they didn’t prep. Apparently no one is telling them the benefits of prep. "</p>
<p>I think most students in most schools don’t know about the value of prep, and I think most of them don’t even understand that the PSAT is a scholarship competition. But most schools don’t have anywhere near the results you described at your school. In that kind of environment, a school where over 5% of the class is making NMSF(!), I can’t believe that students who might qualify had no idea that it would be advisable to prep. At my daughter’s school, where the NMSF figure is closer to 1%, prepping is not that common but some students definitely do prep. </p>
<p>Keep in mind also that it can be hard to know how many students prep. A lot of students don’t like to talk about prepping because they feel it’s not cool. When I dragged my daughter to our local bookstore to pick out a test prep book, she said “Nooooobody preps”. And I said, “there’s a big shelf of test prep books here, if nooooobody preps, who do you think is buying all these books?”</p>
<p>Just want to add, for those of you asking about 7th graders, do you really think it’s in the best interest of your child to have them spend 4-5 years prepping for this test? Especially if they haven’t even covered the relevant topics in school yet, what is the point? Let them learn the math in school, not get anxious because they can’t answer some questions about topics they haven’t studied yet on a test that wasn’t designed for them. Let them read books that interest them, not boring passages they have to answer multiple choice questions about. Unless they need these scores for high school admissions, let them enjoy being a kid. Keep in mind also, your good intentions could really backfire, after 5 long years of prepping for something that evidently matters a great deal to parents, I think a kid would suffer way more than the usual test anxiety.</p>
<p>Oh and in case you were wondering, I have an 8th grader. And I have an SAT prep book, if it can be found under the mess in my high school student’s room. But the 8th grader hasn’t met the SAT book and isn’t going to anytime soon.</p>
<p>I started practicing for the PSAT in May. My first score was around 165. Since then I’ve borrowed nearly every book in the library that said PSAT on it, and now I have a 233 on my practice tests. Taking the actual PSAT tomorrow.</p>