<p>I am pondering the whole Division I sports world, not because my kids compete on that level, but just because I wonder whether, for many kids, playing a Division I sport is in their best interest.
One of my brother's friends got a track scholarship to a big flagship state university. He was an average student, and just couldn't keep up with academics given his travel schedule. He never finished college. My son's former tennis coach played Division I tennis for a big state university. He graduated with grades too low for law school, and his game was not professional level. He is selling real estate, not too happily now, and doing a little coaching.
The daughter of a wealthy family in our community recently signed to swim at a large university. Tuition, room and board there come to about $16,000 due to reciprocity. Another boy, also with well-to-do parents, is looking toward swimming for a Division I school a year and a half from now.
It has been my feeling that, if it is the only way to go to college, grab that scholarship and say thanks. But if it isn't, I am not so sure.
Would love CC comments!</p>
<p>I agree with the above posts.</p>
<p>The other thing to think about is the continuing physical toll of college-level athletics on the body. Football is notorious for causing long-lasting physical problems, especially for those "fortunate" enough to go on to a pro career. It's not the only damaging sport though. I was very surprised to learn that a young woman I know who is a senior Division II track athlete has a variety of chronic injuries including two cracked vertabrae and a bulged disk. She's 22, in great physcial condition, but four years of throwing the javelin in college has probably left her with a life of back problems. Just a thought...</p>
<p>Well, I don't know personally what it is like for those on athletic scholarships and who were recruited, etc. However, I have a daughter who does a Varsity sport in Division I at her college, but was not recruited and there are no athletic scholarships available (it is an Ivy). It is a huge commitment. Her academics have not suffered. She is someone who has juggled a high level of academic performance with heavy EC commitment hours her entire life. Her teammates are also excellent students. Many, including my D, made Academic All American last year at National Championships in her sport. Several of her teammates are aiming for med school. She is also planning on a professional graduate school.</p>
<p>Our friend went to Brown & played soccer--no scholarship as Ivy's don't offer any athletic or merit aid. She noted that while it was rigorous, she did better grade-wise during season than off-season. She said the girls on the team were VERY focused & studied intensely on trips. She went on to get her MBA from Harvard. Her sisters also played soccer for Ivy schools & also got Ivy MBAs, so I guess it worked for them.</p>
<p>I would agree it can definitely take a toll tho. I have another friend whose son went to Dartmouth with a soccer scholarship but had to stop playing after his 12th concussion & has post-concussion syndrome now. He's taking a while to graduate while he figures out what he wants to do. The school kept him on as a team manager but won't allow him to play any more.</p>
<p>His parents had his sister decline all sports scholarships & only accept merit scholarships (tho sister was also a soccer star). </p>
<p>My niece loved gymnastics & diving. She went to large OOS UC, where she did club gymnastics but still fractured her back & still has some back problems now at age 25.</p>
<p>Our S plays intramural soccer with buddies & is busy enough keeping up with his engineering classes, his dorm, rock climbing club & other events. He declined to go out for marching band because of the huge time commitment, tho it would be less grueling than a division I sport.</p>
<p>The stories I've heard for the past few years seem to confirm that girls have an easier time juggling it all -- more maturity and perhaps a tiny bit less practice intensity -- than boys.</p>
<p>It so depends on the school, the team, the student. Close friends of ours have a daughter on a swim scholarship at UVA and another daughter doing crew at UWis Madison. Neither girl had the test scores or the grades to get into those schools without the athletic hook. THey are also excellent at their sports and are love competing. THey have been working on these sports all of their lives, and they are part of their lives. They love their colleges, are doing all right, not excelling, but doing fine, and the older one was captain of her team before graduating. She is now in a professional school and still spends a lot of time at her sport. I don't believe either got a full scholarship, but they did get a nice piece of change, but it was the admissions to the college that was the prize itself, plus the opportunity to continue the sport for 4 more years at that level. It was not a stretch for them, as they lived the sport during highschool, and even earlier for the swimming.</p>
<p>In many cases, athletes are given some extra help and support regarding studying, tutoring, advice, reminders, forced study halls, a coach looking over the shoulder at transcripts, picking courses, etc. When we looked at George Washington U, hardly an athletic powerhouse, but D-1 , I think (?), they have a special department set up to work with athletes to make sure that they do not fall behind in their studies. You can't buy that kind of help. For kids who are at the D-1 level in their sport, they have been spending considerable time at that activity, and for them to stop cold turkey at college is sometimes inviting trouble. When our son stopped his sport, he did not find useful things like studying to fill his time. THe discipline sports bring is often the salvation of some students and a plus for getting them through college. THe teams tend to spend a lot of time together, and take care of each other. Someone going to far with the drugs and drinking has others watching out for him.</p>
<p>Having said all of that, sports also invites the types of parties, fraternities and extracurricular activities are trouble. The Duke lacrosse team is a current example, but it seems that certain sports are notorious for their nefarious activities. That is something an athlete's parent should investigate in choosing a school for the student. If the football team tends to belong to a fraternity with a list of infraction for things you do not want your son involved, you had better look elsewhere. If the coach/school/community seem to be giving a blind eye for this sort of thing, shown by the number of police visits and complaints in the student newspaper about certain groups heavily involving certain athletic teams, you know exactly what kind of situation you are placing your athlete who at 18 is not likely to be declining to participate in his team's off season, off event activities. </p>
<p>I am friends with several parents who are looking at football as the gateway into an Ivy or other highly selective school. THough the kids are good students, they are unlikely without the athletic hook to make this level of college acceptance. Not too shabby though to play for Harvard or Princeton, in my book. Ivies don't give a dime for athletes either, so it is definitely for the admissions, that this group is going. </p>
<p>On a smaller scale, we know a family where the girl has a full ride at Utica College on a basketball scholarship. The money they save on college has allowed them to put her brother in a private school which they felt he needed. She would not have gotten any financial aid (did not, as a matter of fact despite pleas of special expenses for the other child which were documented), and was not merit money material. BUt loves basketball and has played for years. She is enjoying herself and saving her family a lot of money that is going to a good cause.</p>
<p>If the sport becomes problematic, in terms of injuries, interest, conflicting with studies, a decision has to be made as to where the priorities are. It can be a problem if a large amount of scholarship money is involved, and the kid wants to quit half way through. A transfer may be the answer as kids playing at that level may find it difficult staying at that school after quitting the sport even if the money is scraped up. That happened with us. It is not just the sport that goes, but often the whole social structure, and it can be tough for a kid to handle that. I wish we had taken a fresh start approach at that point. </p>
<p>But I have seen athletics take a kid beyond where he would have gone in terms of academics. Kids who would not have gone to college, or to a live-in college when he might have commuted, and help getting through college. Though there are too many cases where the athletet is not given anything for his skills, most schools do have things in place to give them a good chance of making it through their courses and tracking them. It can be a good opportunity.</p>
<p>In my D's case, she is considering a DIV I school for athletics. However, the sport is such a huge part of her identity (golf) and gives her so much confidence to actually excel at something, that the prospect of heavy travel and training does not bother her. On the contrary, it is a huge confidence boost. Plus, she knows that she will play golf all her life, as opposed to some sports that students do not tend to do beyond their 20s or 30s.</p>
<p>Many years ago I did academic advising and tutoring in a Big 10 atheletic dept. I would say that for most of the kids at that level, the benefits outweigh the problems. Most of the students that I monitored did better gradewise during their season than they did in the off season. I saw many young men have a chance at a better life. It ultimately was up to them if they wanted to take that chance. However, even 25 years ago, DI athletics were becoming pretty political and the econonmic forces were really starting to come into play. Because of all that, I was not disappointed that none of my kids were really interested in sports. I think that parents of scholarship athletes need to be especially vigilant in investigating programs.</p>
<p>My son was recruited for DI but chose DIII (NESCAC) for the reasons others have stated. The following statement says it all . . . </p>
<p>" DIII athletic departments place special importance on the impact of athletics on the participants rather than on the spectators. "</p>
<p>From: Choosing an athletic conference at URL
<a href="http://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/cgi-bin/iowa/sports/gogetfit/article.html?record=103%5B/url%5D">http://www.womenssportsfoundation.org/cgi-bin/iowa/sports/gogetfit/article.html?record=103</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
She said the girls on the team were VERY focused & studied intensely on trips.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's encouraging to know about Ivy soccer, that there is a team culture of studying on the road. The road trips are early and often for elite soccer players.</p>
<p>I have to say that my D is away every weekend, all weekend for 2 1/2 months (plus full time for three weeks starting next week) and also for an entire week of missed classes for National Championships which they keep getting into and so likely will again this year. These girls definitely bring work and are very focused. There are no late nights or partying on these trips. It is training, racing, doing work. Up VERY early. Also, midweek, two mornings per week, they are on a van at 6 AM and come back by 1 PM and have all their classes and work to do, as well.</p>
<p>There have been a lot of discussions on this topic. Here is a link to one recent one. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=239717&highlight=Division+athletics%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=239717&highlight=Division+athletics</a></p>
<p>Lots of good posts and good points in both of these threads. It is good for kids to know that Division 1 is completely different from high school sports. But there are a lot of kids who love it, so I don't agree with people who say that there is no benefit to it. As one poster said above, it really does depend on the individual situation. Certainly it is too much for some kids, but for others it is a dream come true. My S certainly belongs in the latter category, and so do most of his teammates.</p>
<p>There is a big difference between DI programs, too. Playing football for Florida is different than playing for Davidson or Rice. It varies by sports, too. Running cross country is not the time commitment that basketball or football is at an Ivy. Ivy sports tend to be for the participants rather than the spectators, with a few exceptions like ice hockey at Cornell and a few others.</p>
<p>As Soozie notes, college sports is extremely time consuming and can be a detriment to some kids. Want to also note, that it really depends on which Div 1 schools and sports. There are D-3 schools that are more intense than some D-1 sports. Kenyon swimming which is top D-3 has workouts and times that would beat many D-1 programs. Also some sports which are have a more relaxed coach or are club sports can be less intense even in D-1 schools. It really does come down to the coach as to the intensity of being on the team, as I have seen club teams that were crazy, in my opinion in what it takes to partake. There are some sports even in Big 10 schools that are not run with the intensity you would think, given what their high profile sports are. I have friends with kids playing in some lower profile sports, and they do not feel the same pressure as kids in schools that you would not think of as powerhouses in any sport.When you have an athlete who wants to continue in college, it is important to know the intensity of the coach and the program. Most kids get a 24 hour recruiting visit, and athletes should see how a typical practice session is run, and what the day of a team member is like during the season. Better yet, he should go to a game and see the tme commitments. </p>
<p>Also want to add that there are teams where ther are late nights and partying that teammembers will want to join which may not be a good thing for some kids. There may be fraternities that the team joins. There is a lot to investigate when your kid wants to be a college athlete, especially if he has the ability level to be a contributing team member. Though fringe members may not be held to the same rigorous standards, those who are really needed often have to toe the practice line and feel enormous pressure to live as a team member even off season, off event. This is not always the situation, and may not be the situation an athlete wants or should have. You do need to check all sorts of things other than the team performance and whether your kid is even a recruit for the team (a whole different issue, and stressful as well).</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would agree it can definitely take a toll tho. I have another friend whose son went to Dartmouth with a soccer scholarship but had to stop playing after his 12th concussion & has post-concussion syndrome now. He's taking a while to graduate while he figures out what he wants to do. The school kept him on as a team manager but won't allow him to play any more.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Himom, it might be time to tell your friend NOT to tell that story to people who have a modicum of understanding of athletics at the Ivies and a modicum of understanding of soccer injuries.</p>
<p>With all due respect, 12 concussions all the while having an athletic scholarship at an ... Ivy! That is one heck of a fantastic tale! </p>
<p>PS As a member of the Ivy League, Dartmouth does not offer athletic scholarships.</p>
<p>Another thread discussing the pressures of student-athletes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
First of all, the stress that the high school senior experiences in the
elite college recruitment process should be short term. The elite college
student-athlete usually smiles when they look back upon "the good old days".
They will tell you that the pressure doesn't start until after you have been
accepted, are enrolled & are competing at the intercollegiate level.</p>
<p>On Thursday. Dec. 8, Swarthmore College women's basketball team traveled to play Bryn Mawr College. The contest was a low scoring game with
Swarthmore winning 49 to 36. Both teams shot very poorly. Swarthmore
finished the game with a 28% shooting average and Bryn Mawr ended with
a 26% average. What does this have to do with the elite college student
athlete and pressure? Glad you asked. It can affect the way they play
in light of the little facts that:</p>
<p>The 1st semester classes ended on Dec. 8th for both schools.</p>
<p>Final exam week begins Dec.11. </p>
<p>From Dec. 2th to Dec. 8th, the Swarthmore College basketball
team played five(5) games. That is 5 games in 7 days with
4 of those five games played away from Swarthmore. </p>
<p>Bryn Mawr College played 4 games in that same time period and
has a game to be played on Dec. 10th. </p>
<p>Both teams traveled 6 hours to Smith College for the Seven Sisters Tournament played on Dec. 2nd, 3rd & 4th. </p>
<p>In addition to the above, all end of the semester academic
work is now due.</p>
<p>Did I mention FINAL EXAMS start in two(2) days !</p>
<p>Also, throw in the body aches & injuries these players have.</p>
<p>How about the student-athlete who is a member of the
college chorus that had to miss the first game of the Seven Sisters Tournament at Smith College because of the conflict of schedule
between the basketball game and the Christmas Concert. </p>
<p>BTW, we got her to Smith College so she could play in the
next two Seven Sisters Tournament games. Had to drive
her up on Saturday morning since the concert didn't
end until after 11:30 pm on Friday.</p>
<p>Parents, make your sons & daughters aware that the stress they may be experiencing now as wannabe elite college student-athletes is mild compared
to what they shall face as an elite college student-athlete.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
That is 5 games in 7 days with
4 of those five games played away from Swarthmore.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course, the away game at Bryn Mawr was probably closer to the dorms at Swarthmore than driving across campus to the b-ball arena at many state universities. It's only like 10 miles away!</p>
<p>Conversely...it should also be pointed out that varsity sports are about as mellow at Swarthmore as anywhere in the country. Despite that, many varsity athletes at Swarthmore hang up the sneakers by the time they get to junior or senior year as they find the time commitment is just too heavy.</p>
<p>"There is a big difference between DI programs, too. Playing football for Florida is different than playing for Davidson or Rice.'</p>
<p>Yup. We are going through this quandary with d2, the gymnast. It is hard for her to imagine concentrating well on her studies WITHOUT 3-4 hours in the gym daily. But, on the other hand, she has some very strong academic goals. There are gymnastics D1 schools where they spend as much time in the gym as they would if they were football players (and it doesn't necessarily relate to the overall quality of the school - think UMichigan), and others where the culture is more relaxed (think George Washington). </p>
<p>Without the gymnastics, there are certainly schools that d2 can't get into and/or we can't afford. On the other hand, we have to kick the tires hard enough that she can achieve her academic/professional goals WITH the athletics; otherwise why not attend a "lower ranked" school better able to cater to her academic needs?</p>
<p>A colleague was a D1 recruit, full football scholarship to one of the power house teams. Once there, he realized that there was no way he was going to stay on the team and get the kind of education he was planning. So he played one year, took out loans, transferred to a less prestigious, cheaper, place, and then headed to medical school. He is now a doc, the only one, as far as he knows, among his former teammates. A couple made the NFL. The rest are doing something else, many without college degrees.</p>
<p>I'd have to say probably 100% of student athletes benefit at least from the attempt - if it doesn't work out for them, at least they've learned something from the effort and experience. </p>
<p>Overall, I've known far more students who have stayed with their sport, and realized tremendous benefits, or those in football who left early for a successful draft position, vs. those who did not benefit and quit either the sport or school. Have no idea what are the aggregate numbers though.</p>