<p>FWIW- my D’s middle school spanish (4 years worth) counted as ONE year of HS spanish. </p>
<p>I think the foreigh lang requirement will only get greater, not reduce, so I wouldn’t bank on two years of middle school being sufficient. </p>
<p>There are many classes that students have to take that they do not want to for four years- math, science, english, social studies. IMO language should be considered the same. It will help to develop language skills in general, not just in French. </p>
<p>Have you checked your state’s foreign lang requirements? or your high school? Our state requires 3 and HS requires 4. Many colleges will require that many, and even have foreign lang as a grad requirement. </p>
<p>You are better off having her just take french or another language. You do not want to limit options before she even gets started.</p>
<p>Queensmom - relax! You are hearing from overachieving, neurotic CC moms!!! If a college requires more than one year of foreign language to graduate from that college and your child hates foreign language then that is not the right college for daughter, it’s really that simple. There are 50 great schools for every kid, she’ll find plenty that are happy with her three years (2 years in middle school counts as one year plus 2 years in high school equal 3 years). This is not her area of interest, let her find those areas that work for her while in high school and she’ll find great colleges that are a match for her when the time comes.</p>
<p>^^This is presuming that the college will even give a check mark for middle school classes (even if those middle school classes show on the transcript.) Many school districts have language available to middle schoolers. But it’s also hedging a bet that in 4 years the OPs D will be interested in the colleges that have no recommendation for high school (not middle school) foreign language.</p>
<p>OP’s daughter is not even in high school yet. She is considering dropping the foreign language completely. It’s quite possible that colleges will count her 2 middle school courses as 1 for their requirement. We “neurotic CC moms” are giving our opinions (for which the OP asked.)</p>
<p>An eighth-grader doesn’t usually have any idea where they might end up attending college. By dropping foreign language, she may be doing herself a disservice, and making it difficult to gain admission to some (certainly not all) schools.</p>
<p>My advice (and that of several other parents) is that she should really think it through. Many students who dislike taking a foreign language continue to do so because many colleges like to see that.</p>
<p>I am myself a neurotic CC mom, which I probably why I posted The question in the first place. ;)</p>
<p>To clarify, at this point D is not actually considering not taking a foreign language next year. The real question is does she suffer through French next year, just to have those 3 years showing or does she pick up a new language (which she might also hate) and suffer through 3 additional years.</p>
<p>My d switched languages in HS after 3 years of Spanish (1 in MS, 2 in HS). We moved overseas and the Spanish teacher was not a good fit for my d so she switched to Chinese for jr and sr year. Then she got to college and needed to meet the 2 year language proficiency - even though she was in Nursing school. She had to take 3 semesters of Chinese - time she would have much rather filled with more interesting course choices since her elective hours were very limited. Language in college can be a difficult course - fast pace and you have daily homework and lots of tests.</p>
<p>Personally I think foreign language is such a key part of education that everyone should take 4 years in HS - yes some have more of a gift for it than others but it’s a life skill. I would suggest Spanish…</p>
<p>Queen’s mom the point is that even though the “middle schools” years will “show” on the transcript there is no guarantee that they will count. That is what I fear for your D. Many, many schools/districts do not “show” middle school classes on the transcript and many middle schools accelerate the competent kids into high school equivalency math, languages, etc.</p>
<p>What state do you live in Queen’s Mom? One way to benchmark course requirements is to look at the flagship university in your state. NYS, where I live, doesn’t have a true flagship, but rather 4 university centers. Binghamton, widely regarded as the best of the bunch, requires 3 years of foreign language. Buffalo, on the other hand, only recommends 3 years. Stony Brook requires 2 years, prefers 3. SUNY Albany, which is generally viewed as the least rigorous of the university centers, at least in terms of admissions, requires just 1 year, but recommends 3.</p>
<p>I also know that in most NYS public schools, only the 8th grade year of foreign language counts for HS credit. </p>
<p>If it were my daughter I’d insist on 3 years of FL just to expand her college options. In fact, D1 took 5 years and D2 4 years. I don’t think the 5th year mattered where D1 applied but D2’s 4 years definitely helped her admissions chances at the good but not “tippy top” colleges she applied to.</p>
<p>For Binghamton Queen’s Moms daughter should be fine is she completes “Spanish 3” her freshman year and passes the Regents test. However my son who finished Latin 3 as a sophomore was pressured into taking Latin 4, both because many colleges like to see four years of a language and because then he’d have three years in high school. Since he got a B-, I’m sure it hurt him at some of the schools he applied to, but it was probably a wash, since not taking it at all would also have hurt him. </p>
<p>She might consider taking Latin. Admissions officers think it is hard and I think you get a little more forgiveness for mediocre grades. You also don’t ever have to worry about speaking it or working on an accent. Nearly all the translating is done from Latin to English, not vice versa. And the Regents test (which my son did quite well on - or at least much better than his classroom grades) has quite a few questions about Roman history and culture.</p>
<p>If she does want to switch languages, I suggest she talk to as many people as possible about which language has the best teachers - that makes the most difference.</p>
<p>That speaking and accent part was a killer for me. Discovering Latin when my family moved to NYS when I was in 10th grade was a godsend. And, yes, admissions officers then as now seemed to be impressed that I chose Latin. I frankly found it much easier than French, which I had taken in Maryland, or Spanish, which I took as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>Nurses in some areas often have to nurse patients whose best language is not English.</p>
<p>One consideration about taking an uncommon language – if there is only one teacher, the students may be left unable to complete the sequence if the teacher retires or otherwise leaves. There was a thread a while ago where a high school’s only German teacher retired, leaving students who completed German 2 as sophomores unable to take German 3. Since they were already sophomores, they could reach at most level 2 in a new language if they started a new language as juniors.</p>
<p>In California, both UC and CSU require a minimum of level 2 in high school (doubtful that middle school would count unless “topped off” with a high school course), with level 3 or higher recommended for UC, for freshman admission (other means of demonstrating language competency are also accepted to accommodate native and heritage speakers whose language ability is already equal or greater than level 2 or 3 of high school language). However, some of them have foreign language graduation requirements which are greater than level 2 in high school.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>As anyone who has read any of my periodic rants knows, I hate the way languages are taught in this country. Of course the OP’s daughter hates French. I don’t see how it’s possible not to hate French the way it is usually taught. There are a lot of rewards for actually learning French, but you don’t get any of them until the AP or 4 level. It’s inexcusable. But the best thing to do would be to stick with French, especially if the OP knows that the high school teachers are good.</p></li>
<li><p>Latin IS taught differently – much more logically and systematically, and with more focus on substance than on inane conversation. So it’s not really surprising that many kids like taking Latin more than living languages, and get more out of it. It would be possible, of course, to teach French the way Latin is taught, but no one does that.</p></li>
<li><p>Two years of high-school language is almost completely useless, an elaborate waste of time. The worst possible thing to do would be to drop French and take two years (or even three years) of something else other than Latin. She would put in the time, and have nothing to show for it except having met the letter (but not the spirit) of college admissions requirements.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Our S has the issue ucbalumnus raises – he is a HS junior, took 2 years French in middle school (received credit for French 1 is HS) - he has since taken French 2, 3 and 4. Now, if he does not take French 5 (AP) and pass the AP test with a 3+, or pass a proficiency test, he may still need to take a language if he is lucky enough to get into a school like UCLA (at some UCs, his current 4 years HS French may be sufficient). </p>
<p>I think he should take AP French, but I think he has had enough for now…this may or may not be a good move depending on what school he winds up attending. </p>
<p>My point back to OP is along the lines of other posters, that for top schools, 4 or 5 years of a language may be the best approach. I cannot provide any advice as to whether switching languages at this time would be a good move, not knowing your student.</p>
<p>In middle school I had two years of Spanish, Spanish 1 a and b. </p>
<p>I hated Spanish. I switched to Latin 1. Now I’m in my fourth year of Latin, i love it, and I’ve gotten numerous awards/related activities. </p>
<p>I think that although it will go on your daughters transcript, it doesn’t really “count” as 2 years of English in high school. I guess every district is different. For instance, I am 2 years ahead in math, and in my district you need math up to alg 2, which on the normal pathway would take a student 3 years. But I had alg 2 in freshman year, so I was required to take 2 more years, and my previous math classes taken in middle school were not shown on my transcript. </p>
<p>I think you should let her “shop” around the first couple weeks, usually HSs have a period where you can switch in and out of classes.</p>
<p>I went through this with kid 2 and kid 3. Kid 2 at least had decent teachers and we got him a tutor and he ended up with 3 yrs of Spanish. It was a battle and he got extremely lucky that his college major did not have any further language requirements. He is LD and ADD and language was always a chore.
Kid 3 also LD and ADD with memory issues never got Spanish. It was always a struggle and it was always her worst grade. We finally allowed her to stop after 2 yrs of language. She had a terrible teacher and felt that even if she went on for the 3rd year she would barely pass. She is a senior now and applied to college with just two years. Her goals were not top schools. So far she had been accepted to 7 colleges.</p>
<p>Latin is a great option especially if you want to go into a science field. It certainly isn’t a “marketable” degree unless you want to teach high school or college Latin classes but having a background in Latin is helpful across many disciplines.</p>
<p>I agree wholeheartedly with JHS. You know very little after only 2 or even 3 years of a modern language. I would probably insist my child take French 3 as a freshman.</p>
<p>Our kids were in the same boat as the OPs. Here is what THEIR prospective colleges said…they expected students to complete Foreign Language 4. Our kids took Spanish 3 in 9th grade and Honors Spanish 4 in 10th grade and that was it. Every school they applied to required three years of FL study and some suggested four years. Between the two of them, they got accepted to 11/13 colleges to which they applied.</p>
<p>There is no question in my mind that the OPs kiddo needs to take foreign language (the same one) in 9th and probably 10th grade. </p>
<p>That will give them time to ferret out the requirements for the colleges their kids might be interested in attending.</p>
<p>OH…DD took Spanish again as a college senior…to fulfill a degree requirement there.</p>
<p>OK. The decision is made. D decided (with minor nudging from me and apparently a huge nudge from her French teacher in school today) to take French 3 next year.</p>
<p>There are two teachers teaching French in the high school and older D assures me we can’t go wrong with either one. One is the “sweetest kindest lady in the world” and the other one is “tough as nails but caring and the best language teacher D1 ever had.” So wish us all luck!</p>