<p>The OP asked how long it takes to learn a language. Of course everyone's mileage may vary, but the folks at the Department of State Foreign Service Institute have prepared a chart of how long it takes very motivated and intensively trained adults to learn various languages and achieve a level of roughly ACTFL Superior (Learner is able to speak the language with sufficient structural accuracy and vocabulary to participate effectively in most formal and informal conversations).</p>
<p>Anecdotally, I've heard many times that the only way to become truly proficient in a foreign language is study of the language followed by immersion. </p>
<p>As to the approach taken by lorelei's daughter (english at home, let the granddaugher learn german from her toddler friends) it should work out great. There have been kids of several nationalities where I live and their parents speak nothing but their native language at home, yet the kids are indistinguishable from any other kids their age when they speak english.</p>
<p>From what I saw of language study in middle school for both of my children, there was an emphasis on the culture of the countries for which the languages are native. There is some basic vocabulary, but not much grammar. I remember that when I studied Spanish in high school I better understood English grammar, it provided an excellent framing of how languages function. At any rate, any educational effort which makes students more knowledgeable about the rest of the world and its culture is worthwhile, IMHO. That being said, my son spent ten days traveling in Spain with his sister between the seventh and eighth grade, and from the pittance of Spanish he had starting in elementary school, he said he could understand quite a bit of what he heard, certainly enough to function in restaurants, hotels, as a tourist, etc. So even though he did not think he "knew" much Spanish, he was able to function. [I did some serious editing of his "what I did this summer" essay, when he recounted his stroll on the nude beach of Barcelona, his Cuban cigar and the free flowing wine at wedding in Pamplona (sp?, fortunately, the week after the running of the bulls), and all the rest of the experience of traveling with his sister and her "at the time" boyfriend!]</p>
<p>I am new to these boards, but have been reading with a lot of interest. My dd is a junior and has taken Spanish since 5th grade, but it was poor at best. From 5th-8th grade, they used the same book, only going further each time. The 9th grade book was different, but had about the same amount of material. Bottom line.....after 7 years of Spanish, she can read a little, speak a little and understand a lot, but certainly not enough to be considered fluent.</p>
<p>I agree with the poster who suggested kids take several different languages, 2 years at a time. That would give a decent basis in each language, and allow the student to decide what language to really concentrate on later on, if they so choose. Since the romance languages are so alike anyway, taking Spanish, French and Italian, for instance, should be pretty easy for the average student. Even German for that matter. </p>
<p>
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In fact, German has different words for someone who translates verbal speech and someone who translates written works, recognizing that they are two separate specialties.
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<p>English has two different words too, among specialists: an interpreter deals with speech, and a translator deals with written texts. I was first a translator and later an interpreter in my language career.</p>
<p>3-4 years high school classes, 3 months in country for Romance Languages assuming reasonable language learning ability. 4-5 years high school classes, 1 year in country for Asian langues, assuming very good language learning abilities. </p>
<p>All of this changes if language is learned in some kind immersion in childhood, parents, grandparents, babysitter, neighborhood etc.</p>
<p>But there was foreign language in lower schools 30 years ago - I was in the program. I think it depends on the school district. As to whether or not your kids learned or didn't in 4 years, that depends on the teacher, just as in any subject. You can have a chemistry teacher who teaches little or nothing as mine did, and was fired at semester. Realize that fluency and proficiency are very specifically defind terms. Fluency means ability of a native (mother tongue level) - proficiency means using a language at other levels and they are graded. True fluency assumes reading, writing, grammar skills. A company does not want someone who is illiterate but "fluent" in speech. It won't help them in reading the contract, etc. As to immersion, it works fine, except that it depends where you are immersed. In TX if you work on a construction site, you will be immersed, but won't necessarily be deemed "fluent" because it is "street language." Totally inappropriate for the internaitonal company workplace. That is why a combination classroom/immersion program works the best. BTW, there is a mother tongue section of the brain, and if certain things don't happen by the time someone is 9, the section closes, and the most a person can expect is to be minimally proficient, but if it stays open, then any new language can be learned to the same level as the mother tongue. That is the superiority of theEuropean system. They recognize this, and start teaching the children before the center is closed, and those children can then become "fluent." Immersion in and of itself is not the panacea for learning language. Many people live overseas for a couple years, and only learn enough to get by, and within a short time after they leave, they forget it all. Their center has closed. Interesting study done on brain slides a few years back scientifically supported the theory. In order for the US to join the ranks of the Europeans. there will have to be changes in teacher certification, and a complete overhaul of the system. As it stands now, a certified teacher can only teach in jr or sr HS, because elementary certification is required for elementary. FL teachers don't have that certification. Until they start allowing specialization in FL for elementary, that won't happen. Plus, there is a tremendous shortage of FL teachers, so a district is happy to get anyone to fill the slot, good, bad or indifferent. And, quite frankly, most administrators don't know what to do with the FL teachers and depts. It is all "foreign" to them.</p>
<p>i think one thing that definitely helps is to start early! for example, i started learning german in 1st grade. we had some wonderful education in elementary school but it kind of slacked off since then due to being combined with kids from another school who didn't know much and we have learned to the lowest denominator since then (until this year when we're finally in class that isn't divided into 3 levels!) Anyway, I still made progress, and I feel as if just constant immersion helps. I have German in my head and often times things just sound right. Also, my accent is a lot better. So my advice is to just get German in your head and listen and read it often just to get a feel for it while you are learning it.</p>
<p>One of the advantages of the systems in other countries is that they are all focused primarily on learning one language------English. In the US, the foreign language efforts are dispersed in too many different, ineffective, and poorly selected directions.</p>
<p>Actually, my wife's generation learned one foreign language just to attend school--namely Mandarin, in mostly Taiwanese-speaking Taiwan--and then began learning English at junior-high age. They did do a MUCH better job of teaching langauges over there, and still do. Essentially all Taiwanese adults my wife's age or younger are able to sound out International Phonetic Alphabet transcription of English, for instance, which is a skill lacking among nearly all certified schoolteachers in the United States, even language teachers or reading specialists.</p>
<p>Somehow learning another language in this country starts very late when one's tongue is already too stiff. I know D speaks French like an American(lol). I learned to speak my native language, Vietnamese, at home, then got into French pre-school, learned French up till 3rd grade, then Vietnamese written language is added after the French left; the system was converted to French/Vietnamese school. English is added(8+ hours) starting at 6th grade. In 9th grade Math lessons were in French, on top French language class. So there were 3 languages total by the time one's reached high school. However language needs to be practiced. I could barely said "hello, how are you " in English, the first month I was in America.</p>
<p>Studying in Berlin--4 months to fluency (lived with a German family, busted my butt 4 hours a day on pure grammar); my belief is that NO ONE attains fluency studying a foreign language in high school or college in America</p>
<p>No one attains fluency after 4 years in any country's classroom - you must have both class and immersion. texasmathwhiz - As to your teacher saying 4 years is enough - that is not born out by the statistics and evidence. They say 6 years plus immersion.</p>
<p>If being fluent corresponds to the definition of a dictionary, "Able to express oneself readily and effortlessly", a short period might be sufficient. However, the definition does not address a couple of other issues such as correctness and adequacy. It may take a lifetime to develop the talent to become fluent, learn to speak and write correctly, and understand the nuances of the foreign languages. It also takes more talent and aptitude than most people possess to reach that level. Some people develop extensive knowledge of a language but struggle with the active fluency. On the other hand, others find it easy to converse, but without knowing much of the foreign language. </p>
<p>As far as high school goes, I am not sure how anyone would expect students to reach very high levels when truly fluent teachers are rarities.</p>