How many years of research do I need to get into MD/PhD program? And how many hours?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>I'm a biology major at a no name state school, and I am volunteering at a very small biochemistry research lab at my school. Thing is, I have talked to grad students in this lab and they said that the kind of research this lab does doesn't get papers out very often. Maybe once every few years.</p>

<p>Since I am looking into MD/PhD, I need a first author pub to get into a funded MD/PhD program. Should I switch labs? There is a top 50 medical school located right next to where I live (they do not have an undergrad uni). Should I volunteer at some lab there? </p>

<p>Also, how much research do I really need before applying to MD/PHD programs?</p>

<p>And by that I mean, how many years, AND how many hours per week I should have been doing research? Would 10 hours per week during the academic year be enough? I have talked with an MD/PhD program coordinator at my local medical school, and she says the average amount of hours college students put in to research in a lab per week is 20-30(!!!!!) hours during the ACADEMIC YEAR! I was like wait what. How in the world. While taking hard science classes, keeping up GPA, WORKING part-time to make some money, volunteering at a hospital, gaining leadership experience by being officer of clubs, and non clinical volunteering? Um. That would be like, 60 hours a week on top of a full time schedule with hard classes. Do these students get to sleep? </p>

<p>So I am just not sure how accurate she was. Can I volunteer 10 hours per week at a research lab and get away with it? WHAT if I don't produce publications? Since my lab only has one paper per a few years....:( (Or maybe I should switch labs)</p>

<p>I will have 2 years and 8 months of research by the time I apply (June after my senior year of college). Should I take 2 gap years instead of 1 and gain an additional year of research? Hopefully I will also have a couple of full time summers of research. </p>

<p>I am extremely worried about the publications part.</p>

<p>Also, what if I do produce a publication, but in a crappy journal? Would that count? </p>

<p>I am just super worried about the amount of EC's I have to do for MD/PhD. I have to do all the pre-med EC's, plus 20-30 hours a week of research?... it seems too much to me. 10 hours, maybe, but nothing more than that during academic year.</p>

<p>Help. Am I the dumbest/most stupid/most unsuccessful person ever? </p>

<p>I also got banned on SDN because they all hate me. How in the world are they all so competitive there and all of them have like 10 EC's by the time they apply? I bet I will barely have 5-6 EC's. </p>

<p>I am really scared about how I will fit in to the MD/PhD admissions. What if I apply to 30 schools and not get in at all? Should I apply to 50+ schools? I really don't want to be a reapplicant. My GPA is a 3.6 btw, but I am planning to raise it up to a 3.75ish. Mayyybe 3.8. Depends if I can really pull off all A's and nothing else for the rest of time.</p>

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<p>Did you find the MD/PhD forum on SDN? There are several sticky threads including a WAMC thread.</p>

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<p>You don’t need a 1st author pub. It definitely helps but there’s so much that goes into getting a pub that is out of an undergrad’s control that it’s not necessary.</p>

<p>You can’t ignore the quality of your research experience too. I don’t mean whether it’s high impact or ground breaking or successful. What I mean is someone who shows up for 30-40 hours a week but who just takes orders from someone else the whole time isn’t going to be in a better position than someone who spends 10-20hrs/week and actually commands their own project.</p>

<p>I would say 10-20 is more standard during the school year, not 20-30. In the summer 40-50.</p>

<p>60 hours/week of ECs on top of class though doesn’t even cover what my whole schedule was. My fraternity and my varsity sport alone were over 50hrs/week, and I still had 3 other things I did on a regular basis. You are trying to apply to the creme de la creme of programs. You’re asking for a school to invest ~$1 million dollars on you (if it’s fully funded). But as you can see, I didn’t have 10 ECs or 3+ years of research and my GPA was just shy of 3.7 (although my MCAT score was competitive), and at the end of the day, it isn’t about numbers, it’s about whether the admissions committee looks at you and says, “we want to invest $1 million dollars and 8 years of our resources into you because we think you’re going to be a successful physician scientist and on top of it, we want you to be forever associated with us.”</p>

<p>How on earth did you get banned from SDN? Also, how can they genuinely ban you? They could ban your account and/or IP address but if you go on from a different account and/or network how would they know it was you?</p>

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<p>^Detecting a multi can be pretty easy when they continuously demonstrate the same MO ;).</p>

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<p>You don’t need first authored publications. It’s possible you don’t even need publications. If you have presented posters at conferences, written an undergraduate thesis, gotten an award or grant from your university for research - these are all ways to demonstrate your research capabilities. For PhD programs (even part of MD/PhD programs), what they are looking for is potential and capability to do research. Talking to professors and graduate students who have been on admissions committees, they have said that publications are not even the best way to demonstrate this; they cannot tell from a publication what you, personally, have contributed. Letters of recommendation from research advisors have a much greater impact on how they view your skills.
tl;dr : Don’t stress about publications. Focus on developing your research skills.</p>

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<p>^well said. LORs and your interview will be much more telling than your publication record at this stage of the game.</p>

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<p>I’m confused.
I thought you wanted to become a dermatologist so you could make a lot of money while not working too many crazy hours so that you could have a large family and a balanced family life while you are still young.</p>

<p>And now you are interested in the long, long haul of an md/ phd program? </p>

<p>Did you suddenly develop an interest in a certain area of medical research?</p>

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<p>No, the OP is looking for a free ride thru med school. She’s “been interested” in MD/PhD and MSTP programs since she found out these programs pay both your tuition and a living expenses stipend. She also figures the “free” PhD will help her get into a competitive specialty without necessarily having the doing anything else to qualify for derm.</p>

<p>Heck, she was asking about how to get into MD-PhD/MSTP long before she ever set foot in a research lab.</p>

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<p>If i remember correctly, you will not be applying for several years. Since you already plan to take a few gap years, you will have time to adjust, get published during that time. Now is the time to do what all premeds need to do: get great grades, volunteer, get clinical experience, shadow to make sure it is really something that you want to do (since your posts about having a lot of kids and working less than 40 hours a week seems unrealistic) and continue to do research. If you really want to go the MD/PhD route then focus on switching labs, putting in the long hours during your gap years. Maybe by that time you will be a valued member of your lab and your PI will have ideas. The advice you seek is going to come from those that know your abilities rather than from strangers on the internet. Your posts on SDN were rather extreme, so it is hard to give you advice. Better to stop making plans and live your life for a while. CC and SDN will be there when you are closer to applications.</p>

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<p>OP–</p>

<p>I know you feel like everyone, both here and on SDN, is always teasing you.</p>

<p>But what you really need to do is sit down and spend some time figuring yourself out. You need to figure out what you are passionate about, other than making the most money with the least effort possible.</p>

<p>Until you figure out what you want, and why you want it, and make a real plan to get yourself there, you’re not going to get anywhere.</p>

<p>The programs you are looking at–MD, Dental, MD/PhD-- are all insanely competitive to get in to, and reject many, many more applicants than they accept. In filling the limited slots in their classes, they are seeking quality, not quantity. Yet all of your posts seem to be focused on quantity. How many hours do you need to volunteer/research/shadow? The exact number doesn’t matter. The fact that you completely fail to reflect any passion for what you are doing does.</p>

<p>Take some time to yourself to figure yourself out. Write yourself some letters or keep a journal. What do you really want to do? Why medicine, instead of law school, or investment banking, or engineering, or computer science, or sales? What questions excite you? Figure out what interests you, and the rest of your plan will fall in place as a result–including the part about making a good living.</p>

<p>Until you do this, you will likely not be successful in any of your pursuits, because nothing about your applications will have the ring of authenticity. Your applications will come across as shallow and half-baked compared to others’ who will be more authentic.</p>

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<p>You do not need to be first-author on published paper to get into an MD/Ph.D./MSTP program. It is nice to be published on a solid piece of research if you can do it. The only research my son did during the academic year was the extensive research he put into his senior thesis. Oh and he he kept up with the follow-up of a research project (that was published) that he mostly worked on during summers. He did his research during the summers, working in a total of about three labs/projects (outside of his college) during his undergrad years and working in two more labs during a Gap Year – one of which led to another publication, but his apps were in before that was published. He did participate in a number of ECs that were completely unrelated to medicine or science during his undergrad years which gave him plenty to write about in his applications. </p>

<p>Do not pursue an MSTP because of the paid education. That is the worst reason and if you don’t have the passion they will figure it out. If you don’t really love research and really love school and really know what you want, don’t do it. You are losing four years of a terminal income when you get an MSTP. It’s nice at the front end not to have loans, but think about losing four years of terminal income and it comes out about even. It’s hard for MSTP students to still be toiling on a Ph.D. and facing another two years of medical school while their friends are launching their professional lives, etc. As an MSTP friend of mine advised me and my son, don’t do it unless you have the fire in your belly and HAVE to do research.</p>

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<p>I think streampaw has left again. She doesn’t like it when she isn’t told exactly what she wants to hear. </p>

<p>I think she has the academic smarts to be a doctor, but not the maturity–maybe because she is so young. She would really benefit from some time off from school–spent traveling independently and working in a real job.</p>