How much debt is too much for a Computer Scientist Graduate?

Paying for College
1

<p>I'm an in-state first-year transfer student and I plan to attend U-M this year. I was accepted in the school last year but didn't go because of personal reasons. I shall be attending this year though.</p>

<p>I plan to graduate from the University of Michigan as a Computer Scientist in about four years. Considering the attraction of a Michigan degree in Computer Science and assuming my plan follows through, how much debt would be too much when I graduate? </p>

<p>According to some rough estimates, U-M would cost me about $21,000 per year because of tuition ($6,500), room & board ($9,500), Books ($1,000), transportation ($1,000), and personal expenses ($3,000). Tuition and R&B are direct figures from their website. The rest are my own person estimates if I try to save money (riding a bike, getting books online, etc).</p>

<p>So I'll need around $20,000 - $22,000 per year (or maybe more). I should be able to pay about $12,000 - $14,000 per year through my Pell Grant, family support, work study, part-time job, and/or a summer Job. (NOTE: This figure is without considering ANY grants or scholarships because I don't want to assume anything that can't be guaranteed) That means I'll need around $8,000 - $10,000 per year, which equals $35,000 - $40,000 when I graduate (or more). </p>

<p>So would that be too much debt for a Michigan Computer Science Grad? I hear that $20,000 - $30,000 is about average. How bad is $30,000 - $40,000? What about $40,000 - $50,000 if things go really bad? Would that be an unsustainable amount of debt to manage?</p>

<p>NOTE: I'm not too interested in anything but the main question: How much debt would be too much for a Michigan Computer Scientist Grad?</p>

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<p>I’d say you are fine. Computer science pays rather well. If you get a good job, you could probably pay off all the debt in just a year. Some people actually manage to get $200,000 in debt for a degree with far worse job prospects so I’d say you’re relatively well off.</p>

3

<p>You should be able to mitigate your expenses some as time goes on. As a CS major you should be able to make money which will offset some of your expenses. I know rent is pretty expensive in Ann Arbor but a summer job should pay for your food and books at least. We found living off campus to be cheaper than living on campus.</p>

<p>I don’t know this for sure but I thought that Michigan meets need for in state residents. Is that only for freshman and not transfer students?</p>

<p>Sorry didn’t read the whole question. Anyways my kids took out Stafford loans about 25,000 which we are paying. Monthly payments less than $300. If you are making 50-60,000/ year do you think you could afford that along with rent and other expenses. I am sure you could. I think you should be fine.</p>

4

<p>Your federal loan limit is $5,500 freshman year, $6,500 sophomore year, and $7,500 in junior, senior, and fifth year if you need one. To borrow more than that without a cosigner would require that your U also award Perkins loans and/or that your parents apply for a federal PLUS loan and be rejected.</p>

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<p><paste> Computer science pays rather well. If you get a good job, you could probably pay off all the debt in just a year </paste></p>

<p>i don’t think this calculation is realitic. starting salary for a graduate in CS (b.s.) is about $50k before tax. there is no way to pay off $40k in one year.</p>

6

<p>What is your EFC? </p>

<p>I think UMich “meets need” for instate students.</p>

<p>YOU can’t borrow much. You can only borrow the following amounts:</p>

<p>5500 frosh
6500 soph
7500 jr
7500 sr</p>

<p>To borrow more requires qualified and willing co-signers. Since you’re a Pell student, it doesn’t sound like it’s likely that your parents will cosign for larger loans.</p>

<p>however, it doesn’t sound like you’ll need to borrow much since UMich meets need.</p>

7

<p>I’d say you are fine. Computer science pays rather well. If you get a good job, you could probably pay off all the debt in just a year. Some people actually manage to get $200,000 in debt for a degree with far worse job prospects so I’d say you’re relatively well off.</p>

<p>Crazy advice. Please ignore. No way can he pay off $40k of debt in one year.</p>

8

<p>Like someone mentioned above, there has been people who get crazy debt (between $100k - $200k), but even if $50k sounds more reasonable, I would suggest not to take it lightly. The proble for many is they can’t control themselves from spending or are party people, etc. Missusing the money is a big problem for many. You are at an advantage (I’m totally guessing, correct me if I’m wrong) if you have no children or anyone you need to take care of but yourself. I myself am going to school for CS, and this fall I will be transfering to a 4 year university. I’ve also looked into it and if you will be using the money wisely and not wasting any of the money (using it onlynfor housin, books, etc.) You probably will be fine. </p>

<p>I know you asked for just an answer to the question, but I want to tell you to really think about it because you never know what life will bring (I hope everything goes well in your college life and beyond) and keep in mind things can happen and you can go into this borrowed money for a long time.</p>

<p>Good luck and update with your decision, I would love to hear from a fellow CS major! :)</p>

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<p>The best rule of thumb that I’ve heard is to research what you are likely to make your first year of full time employment, and borrow no more than that amount. The idea is that you’ll be able to pay off the loan in 10 years without too much trouble if you follow that rule.</p>

<p>But please do the research. Don’t just imagine what your first paycheck is likely to be. There is a lot of variation in the computer industry, and pretty much constant change. It makes a big difference if you are working for government, private industry or in education, as examples. Use your computer skills to check payscale or payrate.com and/or other sites that will give you actual pay scales for the segment of the industry you expect to be in, and in the geographical area you desire. </p>

<p>Then go to a site that will calculate your monthly payments. Know what your monthly payment will be. Are you comfortable with that amount? You need to be able to sleep at night, so even if it’s feels irrational, as in, oh, I can easily pay $200 per month, but $225 leaves you feeling queasy, go with your gut. </p>

<p>As others have noted, borrow as little as humanly possible. Debt stinks!</p>

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<p>Loan Calculator at FinAid: [FinAid</a> | Calculators | Loan Calculator](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Loan Payment Calculator - Finaid)</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone for your replies.</p>

<p>@mom: </p>

<p>I have an EFC of 0 but since I’m a transfer student, I’m not sure how much money they will offer me. And I don’t want to assume any amount only to be disappointed in the future.</p>

<p>Also, I didn’t realize there were limits on how much you could borrow. This could be worrying since I’ll probably need more than that. I’ll probably have to contact the school about that.</p>

<p>@Berry: </p>

<p>Don’t worry, I will not take this lightly. For the record, I’m VERY conservative with my money. I’m probably the cheapest person I know.</p>

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<p>Jay520,</p>

<p>I am not sure you mentioned this, but is there a reason you have to live on campus? Can you live with your parents and commute to college? </p>

<p>Also, since you are a transfer student, is there a reason why your degree has to take 4 years? How many credits can you transfer that will count towards your degree?</p>

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<p>*@mom: </p>

<p>I have an EFC of 0 but since I’m a transfer student, I’m not sure how much money they will offer me. And I don’t want to assume any amount only to be disappointed in the future.
*</p>

<p>Does UMich only promise to meet need for instate frosh? That would leave out all of their instate transfers from CCs and such. </p>

<p>have you used the NPC? If not, do so and see what you get.</p>

<p>I just checked the UMich website, and as an instate student, it will meet your need. However, UMich also uses CSS profile. Have you filled that out?</p>

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<p>I think $50K is a lot to owe. Take a look at the monthly payments that you will be making for 10 years. There is also the question of interest rate which is very relevant since $50K with an average interest rate 5% (with maximum subsidized Staffords and some unsub ones) is one thing, whereas bring the rate up is a whole other. Have you already borrowed money? Also as a transfer student, do you have some credits that can bring down the time at UM and the cost? </p>

<p>My answer is “yes”. Too much. That’s more than a year’s pay you’ll be owing, your family does not seem to be in financial position to help, and that first year hit on finding and job and getting adjusted to the work world can be high. </p>

<p>What worried me is that you are assuming you will get those loans. You are guaranteed about $6500K in Staffords as a sophomore. Are you planning on your parents getting denied fro PLUS or taking the rest in PLUS if not denied to get to what you want? </p>

<p>The other thing that bothers me is that you are assuming that you will graduate as a Comp Sci major and yet at this point have nothing to support this than an acceptance from UM in that program. Most students change their mind about their course of study, and Comp Sci has more kids switching out than into the major for good reason. You don’t have anything to take off the time to get through this program even though you are a transfer student. </p>

<p>One of my close friends supported her daughter’s dream to go to an expensive but well known U for a program that is great for getting high paying jobs. The numbers would all work out when she graduated and got that job. So they borrowed a lot of money as “an investment” in her future, both mom and DD. She changed majors after the first year, but no one wanted to insist she return home and commute to college because of the "Big MO’ (Momentum) and the fact that she was doing all right at the school, and there is a bit of panache to saying she was studying there, and heck, she was going to still find a great job, right?, with a degree from there. </p>

<p>THe financial situation has been terrible for my friend, even worse than 6-7 years ago when she embarked on this. She and her DD own interest and maybe penalities on those loans and can’t pay on them. The amount has gone up into 6 figures and DD is working part time at a coffee shop. I’m about to insist she come here to NY and find two, three jobs waitressing, livng with me and paying all but bare bone expenses for a year to maybe make a dent on this monster debt that has ruined their credit and prospects. No jobs, even waitressing in the depressed area when she lives and she can’t afford to live anywhere else as she doesn’t have the money for rent or living expenses. She can eke by at her mother’s place and at least make enough to contribute to getting by there, and their prospects are diminishing each year. The sad fact of the matter is finding a place to live, situating finding a job, commuting and living expenses are a lot when you have nothing. With the loans on top of it…well, you end up ignoring them.</p>

<p>I’d feel a lot better if you said you needed that much money and are within two years of getting a degree in that field. I’ve said to many a transfer student who cannot make the move to a 4 year school for the degree without a huge cost issue: “Investing $100K into a person’s education who has already shown he is half way there with a good 2 year college record is a whole other thing than doing so at the start of a 4 year journey”. The odds are very different. </p>

<p>Any way you can get half way through such a program with general credits all taken care of and then transfer to UM?</p>

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<p>Actually, I’ve ran some more calculations and it doesn’t look so bad anymore. </p>

<p>I’m going to make a lot of money before I attend college. I just started working 30 hours a week earning 15 dollars an hour. I’ll be following this schedule for 14 weeks until summer vacation. When summer vacation comes, I’ll be working 40 hours a week (or more if I feel like it), which will last 15 weeks. Plus I have $2,000 right now from my refund check (leftover money from my Pell Grant; I go to a cheap community college).</p>

<p>So, before I go to U-M, I’ll make the following

  • For the next 14 weeks: $6,600
  • 15 weeks during SV: $9,400
  • Refund Check: $2,000
  • Total: $18,000 (before taxes)</p>

<p>Subtracting taxes and other expenses and I should have saved at least around $10,000 in my pocket before I start school. </p>

<p>When I’m in school, I’m confident I’ll have the following sources of income:

  • Pell Grant: $5,500
  • Work Study: $3,000 (or part-time job)
  • Summer Job: $4,000 ($6,000 before taxes)
  • Family: $2,000 (aunts, uncles, grandparents who promised to help)
  • From savings: $2,000 (if needed)
  • Total: $16,500</p>

<p>And here’s the cost of Michigan again

  • Tuition & Fees: $6,500 (for my major/department)
  • Room & Board: $9,500
  • Books: $500 (used books online; may be cheaper)
  • Transportation: $500 (not really sure on this; I’ll ride a bike if possible lol)
  • Personal Expenses: $3,000??
  • Total: $20,000 (may be overly optimistic?)</p>

<p>So if U-M costs me $20,000, I would need to borrow only $3,500 - $14k after I graduate.
And just to be safe, if it costs me $22,000 for whatever reason, I would need to borrow $5,500 - $22k after I graduate (And yes, I know the actual amounts when I graduate will be higher due to interest). If I need to borrow more, then I may be in trouble and may have to rethink my plan. Hopefully I qualify for a few grants though.</p>

<p>I also have a few question about personal expenses. The $3,000 figure is just a number I pulled from various websites giving their averages. Is that an accurate number? Will I <em>need</em> $3,000 per year, or can I get by on less?</p>

<p>A few notes for those interested: The Work Study and Summer Jobs assume I’ll be paid $8 an hour which I guess may be too high an estimate? I think this would be the only flaw in my plan. BTW, the Work Study assumes I work 20 hours a week, though I may work more because U-M allows students to work up to 29 hours a week.</p>

<p>If you’re wondering how I get paid $15 an hour now, it’s because I work at a Chrysler Manufacturing Plant on 10-hour shifts. I’m not sure if I’m going to quit my job or not when I start school; I’m still debating on it. Does anyone know if my earnings from this job would have an impact on my Pell Grant eligibility? That would be a major factor in my decision.</p>

<p>Does this seem like a safe plan? Thanks for all the replies guys!</p>

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<p>@cptofthehouse</p>

<p>Looking at some calculations, it looks like I would have to borrow $3,500 - $5,500 per year, which should be available to me as loans without a cosigner. During Junior and Senior year, I can borrow $7,500 as well, which is probably way more than I need. Sophomore year may be a problem though; if so then I’ll take some more money from my savings.</p>

<p>You are right that I don’t know I’ll graduate as a Computer Scientist, but you could say the same about any major I choose. Besides, I’m fairly confident that CS is my preferred field. I’ve already toyed with some of the basic concepts via free online lectures/readings (MIT has an excellent open course ware program) and so far I like what I’ve seen. And if I don’t graduate as a CS major, I would only borrow around $15-$25,000 based on my new calculations. Is that a safe figure?</p>

<p>Note: my backup plans if I don’t like CS will be something involved with math and business or engineering. My backup plans are electrical engineering, architecture, finance, accounting, mechanical engineering, or maybe some other kind of engineering, which are all lucrative and highly demanded careers (according to the Federal Occupational Outlook Handbook).</p>

<p>Someone else mentioned me staying at CC for two years. Yes I could stay at my community college for two years, but I really, <em>really</em> don’t want to do that. The social environment/culture at my current school/neighborhood really doesn’t match my personality. There aren’t many people with similar interests as myself who I could meet. I know this is a low-priority issue, but considering the solution (going to U-M) looks like it’s “only” going to cost me $3,500 - $5,500 dollars, I think it’s worth the price. Do you agree?</p>

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<p>I totally agree Jay520. It sounds like you have a great plan and have figured things out. A couple of things. The book estimate seems a little low. Both of my kids were engineering majors and $500 was about what they spent per semester, sometimes more. Books are expensive for STEM majors, they both bought used books, rented when they could and bought at amazon when they could. I don’t think my S spent $3000 in personal expenses but then I bought his personal items when I could so I don’t have a great accounting of what they might have spent. If you are vigilant and eat your meals on campus you will spend less money than many.</p>

<p>Also I want to say something about work study. D had work study throughout college and loved her job but there was a semester she could not physically fit the job in. She had too much work and a lab heavy semester. Some semesters she could not fit in all her hours. You will have to see how heavy the workload will be and just remember how much time labs take. I think if everything else goes well if you have a semester like that you can take out a little more loan money.</p>

<p>What I would do. When you get your FA statement it will show how much loan money YOU can take out (stafford loans). Take out the maximum. Once all your bills are paid, (and you have the option to pay cash for any of your fees) they will ask you if you want them to disperse the rest of the loan money. They would sent a check to you. You can turn this down. Gives you a bit of a cushion if you run into a bad semester. </p>

<p>I think the amount of loans you are looking at are very doable and you will be able to pay them off as long as your plans stay as you plan. I think you have really thought this out and should be proud of yourself .</p>

<p>I would love to hear how your FA turns out</p>

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<p>BE CAREFUL with your EARNINGS. </p>

<p>you’re going to earn TOO MUCH and lose a good bit of your Pell GRANT. Your EFC will NOT be 0 if you earn more than $6k per year. And, any savings will also raise your EFC since “student savings” get a harsh calculation.</p>

<p>I know that you’re trying to do your due diligence, but instead, do your FAFSA, do your CSS Profile, and use the UMich NPC. You’re likely going to find out that your full need is going to be met.</p>

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<p>*And here’s the cost of Michigan again

  • Tuition & Fees: $6,500 (for my major/department)
  • Room & Board: $9,500
  • Books: $500 (used books online; may be cheaper)
  • Transportation: $500 (not really sure on this; I’ll ride a bike if possible lol)
  • Personal Expenses: $3,000??
  • Total: $20,000 (may be overly optimistic?)*</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>Where are you getting that tuition and fees at UMich is $6500 for your dept (comp sci)???</p>

<p>On Collegeboard, it says that UMich’s instate tuition & fees is about $13,000. And once you’re a junior, the cost is higher. </p>

<p>The “tuition and fees” cost include “university fees,” but does not include “course fees”. Those will be about $40 - 100+ per class.</p>

20

<p>adding to above…</p>

<p>It looks like you were looking at the “per semester” cost. And, as mentioned above, since you’re already a freshman, your tuition for soph year will be about $13k per year, and your tuition for jr and sr years will be about $15k (or more depending on annual rate increases).</p>