<p>Going in debt is scary, I don’t want to take out anything more than 5k a year, the best option is not one penny. Though I think it is best to try to stay under at least 5k of loans a year, or about no more than 25k loans in total of years as a undergraduate.</p>
<p>Let’s put it this way- I am a sophomore and my parents will not tell me how much they have saved up. They had enough money before I was born. So, no debt. And yes, I am aware how extremely fortunate I am. I’m not even one of the richest people in my town.</p>
<p>That’s awesome! </p>
<p>But, can I ask you this? Are your parents aware of how much colleges cost these days? (I mean no offense by this question 
) </p>
<p>I ask because of this… A friend of mine had also saved for their D’s college costs based on college projections when she was born. My friend was certain that they had saved enough for her to go any college that she wanted. </p>
<p>However, my friend never noticed that college costs were quickly outpacing projections and inflation. She had never looked at any colleges’ COA page. </p>
<p>So, when her daughter was a senior in Hs, and they were visiting colleges, she was shocked to learn that COA’s for her D’s list of privates were running about $50k per year (so about $225 projected for 4 years including annual increases). She had only saved about half of that for her D’s college costs (which is still a lot of money ) </p>
<p>So, since you’re only a sophomore…look up the COAs of the schools that you like, then figure that those costs will increase each year, and ask your parents if they’re prepared for such costs. Hopefully, they’ll say “Yes!” :)</p>
<p>COA = Cost of Attendance - tuition, room, board, books, fees, travel costs, personal expenses, misc. :)</p>
<p>average student debt undergrad
Federal loans at graduation</p>
<p>1990- $10,000</p>
<p>1995- $15,000</p>
<p>2000- $17,000</p>
<p>2006- $21,000</p>
<p>2008- $23,000</p>
<p>With the expansion of fed loan limits last year and the inclusion of unsubsidized loans,
the graduating class of 2013, may average close to $29,000. Numbers do not include plus loans, private loans etc. Growth in loan averages during the nineties probably covers most of the cost increases for that period. With costs rising even more rapidly in recent years, increased loans alone are probably not going to be able to cover rising costs. So many students are going to turn to alternative loans, both plus and private. The actual loan debt average for the grad class of of 2013 may well be close to $40,000. Real debt may well have quadrupled over approx 20 years.</p>
<p>I’ll take $0 for undergrad, since I will PROBABLY go to lsu, even though I’m oos, they will give me instate tuition rates, which my parents can afford 100%. (my parents will pay whatever they can, if they could possibly afford it, they would pay for me to go to any school, 100%, but they can’t) I don’t plan on grad school atm, but if I decide to go to law school, I guess I would be in a lot of debt, I haven’t really thought about it since I’m not too interested (idk what I want to do). I guess if I decide to go to a more expensive school (Not lsu) I would have to pay the rest of what my parents couldn’t afford, so maybe an extra 15k/year somewhere else, but I don’t plan on doing that.</p>
<p>Only about $6k total with a degree from Chicago. Thank god for the Odyssey scholarships and supportive parents. Saved my ass. Without the scholarship, I would have had about $25k in loans. Since I want to spend a few years in Japan after graduation, $25k would’ve been too much, and I probably would have had to enter grad school immediately just to avoid the loans racking up interest.</p>
<p>I wanted to throw this out there. Don’t assume that you will be able to get a job right out of college that will allow to you afford your loan payments. Just because the average salary for an entry level grad with your major might be X, doesn’t mean you’re going to GET a job that pays you X right out of the gate. </p>
<p>You also have to think about the type of lifestyle you want after you graduate. Do you want to travel? Get a better apartment? Nicer/newer car? Buy a house? If so, will having a significant loan payment make that difficult or impossible? </p>
<p>Also, something that mom2collegekids reminded me about on a thread I started, if you plan to have kids at the “common” age (average age for first time parents in the U.S. is around 25), will having a large student loan payment make that difficult?</p>
<p>The large loans and reduced employment options would seem to have pretty obvious consequences. Among them… More kids staying home and attending local states and cc’s to avoid the debt. More competition among colleges for wealthy students. And increased pressure on the gov to provide other payoff options.</p>
<p>*I wanted to throw this out there. Don’t assume that you will be able to get a job right out of college that will allow to you afford your loan payments. Just because the average salary for an entry level grad with your major might be X, doesn’t mean you’re going to GET a job that pays you X right out of the gate. *</p>
<p>So, true…A Calif friend’s son graduated in May from Columbia in engineering. He’s yet to find a job. He does have student loans.</p>
<p>Also…and I know that everyone is different…but many kids when they get their first jobs, along with paying rent, they also have to spend a decent amount of money simply purchasing professional looking clothes. I remember my first “real job” - I had to spend a fortune buying all these suits, blouses, and nice shoes. It took me about 18 months, to get a multi-season wardrobe that would work.</p>
<p>I also felt the need to slightly upgrade my car from the (LOL) bomb I had been driving. So, while it may seem like you’re going to have “all this money” when you get your first real job, you really don’t, unless your first job as a newly minted grad (BS/BA), is going to start you out at a high salary.</p>
<p>OK…alternate view here. Sometimes it is NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Our family supports following your passion. In one of our kiddo’s cases that was a music performance degree at an expensive private undergrad school, and then a masters at a conservatory. This is the perfect time in his life to follow his dreams. We (and he) knew all along that he would not be rich when he graduated and that he would be very lucky to get a job…period. He is fortunate to be employed as a musician. Is he getting rich doing this? NOPE. BUT is he thrilled to be employed in his area of passion. You bet!!! And we are just as thrilled for him.</p>
<p>I hope this discussion doesn’t make kids think they MUST major in engineering, business, or go to law or med school to be “successful” because those professions offer monetary rewards. There is much more to life than alway looking at the almighty dollar. If one is following one’s passion and can pay their bills, I don’t think we should discourage them from following their dreams because of the cost. I will tell you…music performance degrees at fine schools are expensive.</p>
<p>It is wonderful that folks here are able to provide others with the information regarding how much their college loans might cost them to repay when they graduate. Certainly, that is information that should be considered.</p>
<p>BUT I am getting the sense from this thread (and a couple of others) that there is a sentiment from some that “not spending a lot on undergrad school” is something that is the paramount reason for choosing a college.</p>
<p>I want to go on the record…I DO NOT AGREE.</p>
<p>
I agree that being rich is not that important. However, avoiding destitution is an entirely different matter.</p>
<p>OK…alternate view here. Sometimes it is NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Our family supports following your passion. In one of our kiddo’s cases that was a music performance degree at an expensive private undergrad school, and then a masters at a conservatory. This is the perfect time in his life to follow his dreams. We (and he) knew all along that he would not be rich when he graduated and that he would be very lucky to get a job…period. He is fortunate to be employed as a musician. Is he getting rich doing this? NOPE. BUT is he thrilled to be employed in his area of passion. You bet!!! And we are just as thrilled for him.</p>
<p>Thumper, you’re a very generous parent! </p>
<p>However, **the concern here is for kids who don’t have parents that will pay (or help pay) their student loans for them like you are doing for your son. You are very generous! It could almost be said that your son really doesn’t have much in student loans because you’re paying for much/most of them - at least until he has a stronger income. **</p>
<p>For most kids, when they take out loans (or have parents co-sign) the understanding is that the student will be SOLELY responsible for the repayment. So, in those cases, those kids need to be cautious. :)</p>
<p>So, it is about the money…if a student KNOWs that his parents won’t be helping or outright paying, then MONEY is a huge concern. Such a student may not be able to take out big loans and pursue a more artsy type of career that may take awhile to earn a good salary.</p>
<p>I agree that being rich is not that important. However, avoiding destitution is an entirely different matter.</p>
<p>Exactly. And a graduate who is “on his own” when it comes to big loan payback could find himself destitute or close to it.</p>
<p>post #69</p>
<p>There’s a difference between “not spending a lot” and going 30 or 40 thousand in debt during undergrad school. There’s also a difference in “spending a lot” if you have it and
“spending a lot” if you don’t have it. In addition many kids don’t have a clear goal at age 18, they are going to college to gain the “experience”. That experience may simply not be worth 30 or 40 thousand in debt, a very different scenario from the kid who is going into debt to become a doctor or engineer.</p>
<p>How much is too much? A good exercise for those kids thinking of taking on much debt is to lay out a budget. Find out what a typical salary in your field is, look up basic housing costs in an area that makes sense, etc. Include utilities, taxes, etc, and then see how much of your available income that loan payment will eat up, and how long you will be paying it.
I know two income teacher families that are still paying their student loans off after 10 and 15 years which is making buying a home and building a retirement fund very difficult.
Here’s another sobering thought - you could end up with loans that cost as much as a starter home in much of the country.</p>
<p>Sorry, we are not paying ALL of our son’s debt. We are helping as we can as a gift to him. </p>
<p>BUT that is not the point. My point is that an arts education is costly. It takes a leap of faith to go into an arts major…the likelihood of making big bucks is small. We did NOT discourage our son from this pursuit OR make him go to an inexpensive school (yes, I know that we have those financial resources…but believe me, we did a lot of belt tightening to pay his bills). </p>
<p>My point is…if the debt at the end of the road is the ONLY thing folks look at, it will leave them with precious few choices of majors. And even with those…no guarantees of grand wealth. I say…within reason (I do NOT advocate huge debt if it is not manageable and the FAMILY makes that decision) choose your school and major. </p>
<p>I came from a very poor family, single parent…very small income. The reality was NO DEBT was really what I should have been looking at. BUT that would have meant not going to college at all (not even a community college…we just didn’t have the money). I took that leap of faith and took out loans that were may times my mom’s income (maximum government loans…yep…we were that poor that my government loans exceeded my mom’s income). Oh…and I entered a field in education…not exactly a cash cow.</p>
<p>You know…somehow I made it all work. My life wasn’t lavish when I graduated from college but I somehow earned a living and saved and was able to do the things I wanted to do. The majority of my loans were forgiven as I chose to work in a priority school district for ten years. BUT then I went to grad school and had some expenses for that. </p>
<p>I’ve never been rich in money, but I have been plenty rich in enjoyment for my job…and I’ve never regretted taking out those loans.</p>
<p>Again…I say…this is a decision EACH FAMILY should be making. It’s good for us here to use our collective wisdom to provide the information about loan repayment and the like. What I do NOT like (and maybe it’s my perception) is the feeling that going with the money is the ONLY thing that should be considered. I do not agree with that notion at all. </p>
<p>Sometimes it’s not all about the money.</p>
<p>P.S. Just an FYI…our musician kiddo has a job. Our engineering kiddo isn’t having much success finding one.</p>
<p>Also try playing with the student loan calculator at the CB website .
[Student</a> Loan Calculator Results](<a href=“http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/servlet/calculateServlet?method=studentloan]Student”>http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/servlet/calculateServlet?method=studentloan)
If you assume an income after graduation of 50K, and had 15K of loans each year, paying them back in 10 years would cost nearly $700/month - 15% of your monthly income. (pretax) and somewhere around 20 to 25% after taxes.
Figure a post tax income around 3200/month. 700 for loans, 1000 for housing, 200 for utilities, 500 for transportation(car/gas/etc) 300 for food, and you are down to 500/month for everything else - insurance, clothing, household furnishing, entertainment, etc.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That sounds like PLENTY.</p>
<p>*Sorry, we are not paying ALL of our son’s debt. We are helping as we can as a gift to him. </p>
<p>BUT that is not the point. My point is that an arts education is costly. It takes a leap of faith to go into an arts major…the likelihood of making big bucks is small. We did NOT discourage our son from this pursuit OR make him go to an inexpensive school (yes, I know that we have those financial resources…but believe me, we did a lot of belt tightening to pay his bills). *</p>
<p>Whether you are paying for some/all of his student loans is not really that relevant. The fact that you’re reducing his obligation is what’s relevant.</p>
<p>For kids who know that their parents can’t/won’t help pay for their student loans, they’re in a different boat. Surely you can understand that. They don’t have a safety net that they can go to if then are “under-employed” or simply can’t afford repayment on big loans. When those kids are making their future decisions, they have to be thinking, “Can I, alone, pay this back.”</p>
<p>
The reality is that actions have their consequences. Choosing to attend an expensive institution and then choosing to pursue a field that may not be lucrative or stable can cause some serious financial problems. If the family is willing to accept that risk, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. But this is a decision that needs to be made with care.</p>
<p>I also find your allusions to “big bucks” and “grand wealth” rather strange, because most people even in relatively high-paying fields will end up living middle-class lives.</p>
<p>There are very few loans above and beyond the Stafford (and perhaps Perkins for some students) loans which students can take out in their own names (without a co-signer). The notion that a student alone can take out a $40K loan for year of college without a co-signer is just not in the realm of possibility (unless there is some kind of loan program out there that <em>I</em> don’t know about that will loan kids without any collaterol money). </p>
<p>That being the case, these kids who want to assume debt are likely going to be required to do so with the co-signature of a parent or other responsible relative (or someone else with the financial backing to be able to guarantee repayment IF the student cannot). </p>
<p>That being the case, this is not just a student decision…it is a FAMILY decision. </p>
<p>I fully agree with you…and if you’ve read any of my “advice” in the past, the one thing I say again and again…“Make sure you have a way to pay for the college of your choice. There is no “tuition fairy” out there.”</p>
<p>But again I say…I hope that this thread doesn’t discourage a talented artist, dancer, musician, teacher or other “other potential low paying job” seeker to pursue their passion…if THEIR FAMILY makes the decision that taking loans is something they want to do.</p>
<p>We’re (collectively) giving a lot of good information to others re: loan amounts, repayment, etc. BUT the FAMILIES need to take this information and figure out what to do with it. </p>
<p>Again…I just personally hope the costs associated with the potential earnings doesn’t discourage a student from pursuing something for which they have a passion.</p>
<p>thumper1 - 500 a month for everything else may sound like a lot, but remember that those debts take 10 years to pay off. So, for example, if you want to get married and start a family, that money can vanish pretty quickly. There’s also all the stuff to buy as you start building a household. A basic fridge, a laptop computer, a dining room table - any of these could eat of up all your cash for one or two months.
That’s not to say that anyone should give up their dreams, but just that some time with a calculator building a budget can be eye-opening.</p>